RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy

Bovidae

Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.

KiwiMurph

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

Just on the DM/BB axis. Have we seen that in a big test? I'm quite excited to see how it goes. Hopefully another injury forced "master stroke".

First test of the year away in Argentina they certainly looked good

But no we must persist with the failed Mo'unga-BB axis that hasn't worked since implemented in 2019.....

mariner4life

@KiwiMurph said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

Just on the DM/BB axis. Have we seen that in a big test? I'm quite excited to see how it goes. Hopefully another injury forced "master stroke".

First test of the year away in Argentina they certainly looked good

But no we must persist with the failed Mo'unga-BB axis that hasn't worked since implemented in 2019.....

just like my punting...

IT'S DUE!!

bayimports

@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

The thing that makes Ireland so good at the moment is they are so comfortable doing not much for long stretches of the game. Maybe some phases if we are in the right part of the field, but they wait for their chance and they are happy to stay in teh grind

I watched that SA v Ireland game and kept thinking "Barrett or Mo'unga would have got bored by now and tried something risky to break the game open"

Very much like a good league team that gets into the grind and is happy to let the opposition make the mistake and then pounce.

Ironically I still think we could employ the same tactic successfully and be better at it, because I think we have more players that could exploit the mistake.

Duluth

@KiwiMurph said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

First test of the year away in Argentina they certainly looked good

A clear separation of roles. BB was playing like a traditional ten in our own half. They swapped when we were on attack and then McKenzie played extremely flat, handled the ball constantly and BB picked great lines.

McKenzie at full pace looping around outside the JB/RI midfield was a highlight. So many questions for the defence to answer

Very disappointed we didn't see it again in one of the Tests v SA

mariner4life

i know it was only Namibia, but in the last game it also looks like BB is far happier deferring to DMac when he is at 10, and DMac is in the middle of everything.

Perhaps that all changes if we are under pressure or behind though.

antipodean

@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.

Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.

Dan54

@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

Poor coaching, as is the standard.

Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.

Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!

If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?

Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.

Well personally I would be starting with Taylor, I a ST fan , but we need a bloody solid set piece going forward, and hence Taylor probably gets the nod. Would make no difference anyway, we all got our players we like and lo and behold any coach or coaches who don't put our players on field.

If you were to check line-out stats for last year, Samisoni would have been miles better than Taylor, yet they wouldn't drop Taylor and wouldn't start Samisoni. Taylor fucked up critical throws on multiple occasions. He was terrible, and his head clearly wasn't right but htey wouldn't rest him. He's been better again this year, but it's not an exaggeration to say that it lost us games last year, and it clearly has had a negative impact on Samisoni - why wouldn't it?
Assessing the scrum is not straightforward, because there are so many different combinations.
Assessing the impact in open play is obvious: Samisoni is the power man, Taylor and Coles the speed men. That to me says Samisoni starts, and the others impact.

MateI don't assess scrums, as you have to be out there to do it. I don't make my opinions from reading stats, because basically the ones we get a not all that reflective of a game, I just old fashioned type of fella that makes his opinions (as I did when coaching etc) from watching. As I say I a ST fan anyway, just at this stage I not convinced he best option (though to be fair if coached said he was after watching games and trainings) I would have absolutely no probs, thay would have feedback aetc on scrum etc as well.

reprobate

@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

i know it was only Namibia, but in the last game it also looks like BB is far happier deferring to DMac when he is at 10, and DMac is in the middle of everything.

Perhaps that all changes if we are under pressure or behind though.

Hard to know because we haven't tried it enough and haven't given Mckenzie enough opportunity in pressure games.
From the limited stuff we have seen, it seems to work far better if Mckenzie is one of the dual playmakers, with either BB or RM as the other. IMO that's very clearly because they play similarly, and he plays differently.

reprobate

@Dan54 I haven't checked the stats either mate, I just know what I saw - and it was clear enough that I know the stats would back it up. not-straights are one of the few stats that are clear-cut.

Snowy

@Machpants said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@Snowy said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

I have only just realised that Carley is the ref, and now I have an extra 2 hours to do something other than watch rugby on Saturday morning.

Sad that my someone's life~~long~~span ~~love of rugby~~ has been diminished to by that point.

Busy day for the basement.

But man that is sad, I can't believe you won't watch the abs cos of that. I want to see them play so well it doesn't matter

I keep basement room for people like Carley, but unfortunately I don't go to RWC anymore. Wayne Barnes was responsible for that.

The problem with watching it would be that I wouldn't actually be seeing the ABs play. It would be 2 hours of a pedantic prick, with no feel for the game, running around shouting "look at me" with some brief interruptions by the other 30 blokes on the field that I actually want to see. Even that is dependent on the unlikely event that he lets all 30 of them stay on the field at once.

Dan54

@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

i know it was only Namibia, but in the last game it also looks like BB is far happier deferring to DMac when he is at 10, and DMac is in the middle of everything.

Perhaps that all changes if we are under pressure or behind though.

I still think it's who is at 10, RMo if he is 10 calls shots, and if wants to be first receiver he should be saying so!
I always remember Bryn Hall talking about how Crusaders operated while he was playing, and said they almost always used Havili as first receiver (and most other super teams did similar) until game reall broke up.

antipodean

@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

i know it was only Namibia, but in the last game it also looks like BB is far happier deferring to DMac when he is at 10, and DMac is in the middle of everything.

Perhaps that all changes if we are under pressure or behind though.

I still think it's who is at 10, RMo if he is 10 calls shots, and if wants to be first receiver he should be saying so!
I always remember Bryn Hall talking about how Crusaders operated while he was playing, and said they almost always used Havili as first receiver (and most other super teams did similar) until game reall broke up.

Just what you want in a modern five-eighth. An appearance in the last quarter.

Old Samurai Jack

@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.

Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.

Is it an individual problem or a systematic problem? Does he have defending issues with the Chiefs or just the ABs? Genuine question because just about every outside back has defending problems in the AB system.

mariner4life

@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

Poor coaching, as is the standard.

Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.

Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!

If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?

Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.

Well personally I would be starting with Taylor, I a ST fan , but we need a bloody solid set piece going forward, and hence Taylor probably gets the nod. Would make no difference anyway, we all got our players we like and lo and behold any coach or coaches who don't put our players on field.

If you were to check line-out stats for last year, Samisoni would have been miles better than Taylor, yet they wouldn't drop Taylor and wouldn't start Samisoni. Taylor fucked up critical throws on multiple occasions. He was terrible, and his head clearly wasn't right but htey wouldn't rest him. He's been better again this year, but it's not an exaggeration to say that it lost us games last year, and it clearly has had a negative impact on Samisoni - why wouldn't it?
Assessing the scrum is not straightforward, because there are so many different combinations.
Assessing the impact in open play is obvious: Samisoni is the power man, Taylor and Coles the speed men. That to me says Samisoni starts, and the others impact.

MateI don't assess scrums, as you have to be out there to do it. I don't make my opinions from reading stats, because basically the ones we get a not all that reflective of a game, I just old fashioned type of fella that makes his opinions (as I did when coaching etc) from watching. As I say I a ST fan anyway, just at this stage I not convinced he best option (though to be fair if coached said he was after watching games and trainings) I would have absolutely no probs, thay would have feedback aetc on scrum etc as well.

lol what? your whole argument is set piece, but you are ignoring one set piece
And then you are ignoring stats in favour of "your eyes"
Eyes that you would then ignore if the coaches told you different?

That's not an opinion, that's you basically saying "well the coaches pick Taylor so he is obviously better"

nostrildamus

This post is deleted!

taniwharugby

boy it seems like forever ago we played Namibia...that was our last game right?

#crazycnutseverywhere

Toddy

This tournament is a fair reflection of the where the game is at. It stops for a break just as it appears to get going.

taniwharugby

@Toddy think isnt too bad for us, probably not ideal for anyone going into a quarter final after a bye...?

mariner4life

@taniwharugby said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:

@Toddy think isnt too bad for us, probably not ideal for anyone going into a quarter final after a bye...?

that probably depends on who you played before the bye. if you had a soft tune up game in to teh bye that's probably bad. if you had your tough pool game that's okay.

The flipside is playing your "knock out" pool game in the last week then gives you 4 straight big games

Our is pretty much perfect except we fucked up the first one (even though given the two options in the quarter it was pick your poison)

The Silver Fern

RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy