RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy
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@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.
Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.
Is it an individual problem or a systematic problem? Does he have defending issues with the Chiefs or just the ABs? Genuine question because just about every outside back has defending problems in the AB system.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.
Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.
Is it an individual problem or a systematic problem? Does he have defending issues with the Chiefs or just the ABs? Genuine question because just about every outside back has defending problems in the AB system.
Aside from McLeod's bafflingly shit defensive systems for the All Blacks, Stevenson was noticeably crap at defending in SR. To the point it looked like he didn't want to.
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@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.Well personally I would be starting with Taylor, I a ST fan , but we need a bloody solid set piece going forward, and hence Taylor probably gets the nod. Would make no difference anyway, we all got our players we like and lo and behold any coach or coaches who don't put our players on field.
If you were to check line-out stats for last year, Samisoni would have been miles better than Taylor, yet they wouldn't drop Taylor and wouldn't start Samisoni. Taylor fucked up critical throws on multiple occasions. He was terrible, and his head clearly wasn't right but htey wouldn't rest him. He's been better again this year, but it's not an exaggeration to say that it lost us games last year, and it clearly has had a negative impact on Samisoni - why wouldn't it?
Assessing the scrum is not straightforward, because there are so many different combinations.
Assessing the impact in open play is obvious: Samisoni is the power man, Taylor and Coles the speed men. That to me says Samisoni starts, and the others impact.MateI don't assess scrums, as you have to be out there to do it. I don't make my opinions from reading stats, because basically the ones we get a not all that reflective of a game, I just old fashioned type of fella that makes his opinions (as I did when coaching etc) from watching. As I say I a ST fan anyway, just at this stage I not convinced he best option (though to be fair if coached said he was after watching games and trainings) I would have absolutely no probs, thay would have feedback aetc on scrum etc as well.
lol what? your whole argument is set piece, but you are ignoring one set piece
And then you are ignoring stats in favour of "your eyes"
Eyes that you would then ignore if the coaches told you different?That's not an opinion, that's you basically saying "well the coaches pick Taylor so he is obviously better"
@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.Well personally I would be starting with Taylor, I a ST fan , but we need a bloody solid set piece going forward, and hence Taylor probably gets the nod. Would make no difference anyway, we all got our players we like and lo and behold any coach or coaches who don't put our players on field.
If you were to check line-out stats for last year, Samisoni would have been miles better than Taylor, yet they wouldn't drop Taylor and wouldn't start Samisoni. Taylor fucked up critical throws on multiple occasions. He was terrible, and his head clearly wasn't right but htey wouldn't rest him. He's been better again this year, but it's not an exaggeration to say that it lost us games last year, and it clearly has had a negative impact on Samisoni - why wouldn't it?
Assessing the scrum is not straightforward, because there are so many different combinations.
Assessing the impact in open play is obvious: Samisoni is the power man, Taylor and Coles the speed men. That to me says Samisoni starts, and the others impact.MateI don't assess scrums, as you have to be out there to do it. I don't make my opinions from reading stats, because basically the ones we get a not all that reflective of a game, I just old fashioned type of fella that makes his opinions (as I did when coaching etc) from watching. As I say I a ST fan anyway, just at this stage I not convinced he best option (though to be fair if coached said he was after watching games and trainings) I would have absolutely no probs, thay would have feedback aetc on scrum etc as well.
lol what? your whole argument is set piece, but you are ignoring one set piece
And then you are ignoring stats in favour of "your eyes"
Eyes that you would then ignore if the coaches told you different?That's not an opinion, that's you basically saying "well the coaches pick Taylor so he is obviously better"
No I not ignoring anything, I saying I don't have the knowledge to assess what's happening in scrums when ST is on, just for some reason we have struggled for dominance. But yes I would ignore what I THOUGHT I saw on tv in a scrum if coaches told me different. I don't argue as they get feedback from props etc as well. I not suggesting that anything is ignored , and I think you maybe just twisting whether accidently or on purpode what I wrote.
So isn't the opposite take saying I know more than the coaches sitting on my arse in front of tv, and not being at trainings etc? -
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.
Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.
Is it an individual problem or a systematic problem? Does he have defending issues with the Chiefs or just the ABs? Genuine question because just about every outside back has defending problems in the AB system.
Aside from McLeod's bafflingly shit defensive systems for the All Blacks, Stevenson was noticeably crap at defending in SR. To the point it looked like he didn't want to.
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.
Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.
Is it an individual problem or a systematic problem? Does he have defending issues with the Chiefs or just the ABs? Genuine question because just about every outside back has defending problems in the AB system.
Aside from McLeod's bafflingly shit defensive systems for the All Blacks, Stevenson was noticeably crap at defending in SR. To the point it looked like he didn't want to.
The implication (intended or not) sounds like the Chiefs couldn't win a game due to his defence..which is not true. I don't think anyone goes out thinking they won't defend unless they have a relationship with a bookie.
I am not going to lump him in the jesus/ethan category either but would probably add that if you look at it like a balance sheet, the points created (not necessarily scored directly) outweigh the points conceded as well.
When Reiko first moved to centre and even now still makes some bad defensive reads occasionally (not much anymore) but for me is one of the first picked because what he can break a game at any point and Stevenson has some of those qualities. Still has work ons but for me needs to be in the mix.
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@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.
Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.
Is it an individual problem or a systematic problem? Does he have defending issues with the Chiefs or just the ABs? Genuine question because just about every outside back has defending problems in the AB system.
Aside from McLeod's bafflingly shit defensive systems for the All Blacks, Stevenson was noticeably crap at defending in SR. To the point it looked like he didn't want to.
The implication (intended or not) sounds like the Chiefs couldn't win a game due to his defence..which is not true. I don't think anyone goes out thinking they won't defend unless they have a relationship with a bookie.
I am not going to lump him in the jesus/ethan category either but would probably add that if you look at it like a balance sheet, the points created (not necessarily scored directly) outweigh the points conceded as well.
When Reiko first moved to centre and even now still makes some bad defensive reads occasionally (not much anymore) but for me is one of the first picked because what he can break a game at any point and Stevenson has some of those qualities. Still has work ons but for me needs to be in the mix.
@bayimports said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Still has work ons but for me needs to be in the mix.
I've made the point before, but it shits me how you have to be perfect to make the squad, but once you are in you can make as many errors or have as many work ons as you want. You just need to get there, then she's apples.
If you are in the AB squad, then Super form means jack shit. If you are in the AB 23, then even test form doesn't matter week to week
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@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.
Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.
Is it an individual problem or a systematic problem? Does he have defending issues with the Chiefs or just the ABs? Genuine question because just about every outside back has defending problems in the AB system.
Aside from McLeod's bafflingly shit defensive systems for the All Blacks, Stevenson was noticeably crap at defending in SR. To the point it looked like he didn't want to.
The implication (intended or not) sounds like the Chiefs couldn't win a game due to his defence..which is not true. I don't think anyone goes out thinking they won't defend unless they have a relationship with a bookie.
I am not going to lump him in the jesus/ethan category either but would probably add that if you look at it like a balance sheet, the points created (not necessarily scored directly) outweigh the points conceded as well.
When Reiko first moved to centre and even now still makes some bad defensive reads occasionally (not much anymore) but for me is one of the first picked because what he can break a game at any point and Stevenson has some of those qualities. Still has work ons but for me needs to be in the mix.
@bayimports said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.
Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.
Is it an individual problem or a systematic problem? Does he have defending issues with the Chiefs or just the ABs? Genuine question because just about every outside back has defending problems in the AB system.
Aside from McLeod's bafflingly shit defensive systems for the All Blacks, Stevenson was noticeably crap at defending in SR. To the point it looked like he didn't want to.
The implication (intended or not) sounds like the Chiefs couldn't win a game due to his defence..which is not true. I don't think anyone goes out thinking they won't defend unless they have a relationship with a bookie.
SR in 2023 isn't in the same ballpark as Test rugby. It's a noticeable issue and no All Black in the modern era should be as bad as he is at half of the game.
I am not going to lump him in the jesus/ethan category either but would probably add that if you look at it like a balance sheet, the points created (not necessarily scored directly) outweigh the points conceded as well.
Cullen retired.
When Reiko first moved to centre and even now still makes some bad defensive reads occasionally (not much anymore) but for me is one of the first picked because what he can break a game at any point and Stevenson has some of those qualities. Still has work ons but for me needs to be in the mix.
Reiko also makes most of his tackles, as well as using his speed to cover for others. Give Stevenson another good year in SR with demonstrated improvement in this aspect of his game and he should easily make the squad.
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Right, as critical and as harsh as I've been on Foster and the ABs, I still want us to win despite believing we won't get passed the QF. I want the game plan to be simple. We must dominate up front before we play. Flood the breakdown and give BBBR a licence to end careers for 50 mins. TACKLE LOW!!! Don't want any play behind the 10m line. Anything there goes long. If we have a lead then onen the game up somewhat but it's critical we maximise the full 80 mins to play, maintain dominance and structure for the full 80 especially when subs come on.
I want to see positive decisions if and when ebbs and flow are against us. We've only got Uruguay after this so just go gangbusters for 80. Discipline is also critical. Listen to the refs queues. We should be able to put 50 on Italy so this could be the last chance to make a big statement. -
@bayimports said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Still has work ons but for me needs to be in the mix.
I've made the point before, but it shits me how you have to be perfect to make the squad, but once you are in you can make as many errors or have as many work ons as you want. You just need to get there, then she's apples.
If you are in the AB squad, then Super form means jack shit. If you are in the AB 23, then even test form doesn't matter week to week
@mariner4life or the coaching team saw his upside but thought, nope, nothing we can do with him here
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@bayimports said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Still has work ons but for me needs to be in the mix.
I've made the point before, but it shits me how you have to be perfect to make the squad, but once you are in you can make as many errors or have as many work ons as you want. You just need to get there, then she's apples.
If you are in the AB squad, then Super form means jack shit. If you are in the AB 23, then even test form doesn't matter week to week
@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@bayimports said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Still has work ons but for me needs to be in the mix.
I've made the point before, but it shits me how you have to be perfect to make the squad, but once you are in you can make as many errors or have as many work ons as you want. You just need to get there, then she's apples.
If you are in the AB squad, then Super form means jack shit. If you are in the AB 23, then even test form doesn't matter week to week
The old saying “ it is harder to get out of the team than it was to get in” was and still is applied to the Oz cricket team
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@akan004 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Ardie just said that the Ireland V SA game was one of the first non ABs games he has watched.
What a professional outfit we have here, one of our most senior players and stand in captain is not even bothered to see where the opposition is at. Sigh.
Not this again…
Someone dig up the old thread/s on rugby players that don’t sit around and watch rugby games from start to finish.
They watch snippets, packaged up footage. Who cares if they don’t sit and watch full games.
This is a RWC ffs, you want to be as best prepared as possible and perhaps offer insights on the opposition that maybe the coaches might have missed.
@akan004 yeah but you don’t need to watch hours of full game footage for that, especially the way rugby is today and all the stoppages and time wasting that goes on.
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Don't run shite ball, it doesn't work
Pick n go
Big fan of long or wipers
Roll the dice bring on Roigard at 50 min
Will sulk if BB does own half cross kick or dink -
We're probably on the 3rd line of betting at the moment. If this was a horse race Ireland would be at around the $2.50 mark, Friance and South Africa at $3s, and us probably at 4s. England at about 7s or 8s, and everyone else in double figures.
And i am happy with that. But the pretty lady in the mounting yard is probably not picking us off the parade.
@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
We're probably on the 3rd line of betting at the moment. If this was a horse race Ireland would be at around the $2.50 mark, Friance and South Africa at $3s, and us probably at 4s. England at about 7s or 8s, and everyone else in double figures.
And i am happy with that. But the pretty lady in the mounting yard is probably not picking us off the parade.
You’d have to think that England would be odds on to make the final
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Don't run shite ball, it doesn't work
Pick n go
Big fan of long or wipers
Roll the dice bring on Roigard at 50 min
Will sulk if BB does own half cross kick or dink@BerniesCorner said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Don't run shite ball, it doesn't work
Pick n go
Big fan of long or wipers
Roll the dice bring on Roigard at 50 min
> Will sulk if BB does own half cross kick or dinkUnless it comes off haha
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@bayimports said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.
Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.
Is it an individual problem or a systematic problem? Does he have defending issues with the Chiefs or just the ABs? Genuine question because just about every outside back has defending problems in the AB system.
Aside from McLeod's bafflingly shit defensive systems for the All Blacks, Stevenson was noticeably crap at defending in SR. To the point it looked like he didn't want to.
The implication (intended or not) sounds like the Chiefs couldn't win a game due to his defence..which is not true. I don't think anyone goes out thinking they won't defend unless they have a relationship with a bookie.
SR in 2023 isn't in the same ballpark as Test rugby. It's a noticeable issue and no All Black in the modern era should be as bad as he is at half of the game.
I am not going to lump him in the jesus/ethan category either but would probably add that if you look at it like a balance sheet, the points created (not necessarily scored directly) outweigh the points conceded as well.
Cullen retired.
When Reiko first moved to centre and even now still makes some bad defensive reads occasionally (not much anymore) but for me is one of the first picked because what he can break a game at any point and Stevenson has some of those qualities. Still has work ons but for me needs to be in the mix.
Reiko also makes most of his tackles, as well as using his speed to cover for others. Give Stevenson another good year in SR with demonstrated improvement in this aspect of his game and he should easily make the squad.
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Reiko also makes most of his tackles, as well as using his speed to cover for others.
He's got pretty much the best attacking stats in the comp so far
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@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
We're probably on the 3rd line of betting at the moment. If this was a horse race Ireland would be at around the $2.50 mark, Friance and South Africa at $3s, and us probably at 4s. England at about 7s or 8s, and everyone else in double figures.
And i am happy with that. But the pretty lady in the mounting yard is probably not picking us off the parade.
You’d have to think that England would be odds on to make the final
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
We're probably on the 3rd line of betting at the moment. If this was a horse race Ireland would be at around the $2.50 mark, Friance and South Africa at $3s, and us probably at 4s. England at about 7s or 8s, and everyone else in double figures.
And i am happy with that. But the pretty lady in the mounting yard is probably not picking us off the parade.
You’d have to think that England would be odds on to make the final
their draw is the only reason they aren't at double figures, they are a knock out chance in a semi against a team coming off a war
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@Duluth said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Former Canterbury player Jon Preston had excellent analysis of Mo'unga shitness at halftime in that match
Do you have a link for that? Tbh I have suppressed memories from that game. I could see we were fŭcked from the get go. Everything that multiple posters here had warned about could happen, was happening in front of our eyes. The disheartening thing was that we, i.e. the half-arse keyboard warriors, could see this coming a mile away, yet the brains trust in the ABs were like a man being mugged in a meadow.
The crazy thing is that if that penalty hadn't been reversed for the SW brain fart we were still in with a shot. Would have been completely undeserved because we had the shit beaten out of us all game.
Actually one thing I recall reading here was how Iteoje was apparently this overhyped myth. Well fark me if that overhyped myth didn't eat our lunch that day.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Do you have a link for that?
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@Dodge said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
not tomorrow, you could turn up half cut and beat Italy
Yes there some strange shit on this forum right now. Don't criticise a ten that has underperformed for years but talk up the chances of losing to fucking Italy??
@Duluth said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Dodge said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
not tomorrow, you could turn up half cut and beat Italy
Yes there some strange shit on this forum right now. Don't criticise a ten that has underperformed for years but talk up the chances of losing to fucking Italy??
There's actually been comments on the Fern from people saying they hope the ABs crash out as they can't stand the thought of Foster doing well.
And I'm sure it wasn't the Walrus being ironic.
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Carley is not a ref I enjoy watching, just seems overly pedantic and often leads to a stop start game. I wonder what he average time in play and penalties are for him vs the other RWC refs. Shame BOK is a kiwi as I would take him all day long.
@chimoaus said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Carley is not a ref I enjoy watching, just seems overly pedantic and often leads to a stop start game.
He's shit IMHO. The only Ref I've ever suspected of deliberate bias
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We're probably on the 3rd line of betting at the moment. If this was a horse race Ireland would be at around the $2.50 mark, Friance and South Africa at $3s, and us probably at 4s. England at about 7s or 8s, and everyone else in double figures.
And i am happy with that. But the pretty lady in the mounting yard is probably not picking us off the parade.
@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
We're probably on the 3rd line of betting at the moment. If this was a horse race Ireland would be at around the $2.50 mark, Friance and South Africa at $3s, and us probably at 4s. England at about 7s or 8s, and everyone else in double figures.
And i am happy with that. But the pretty lady in the mounting yard is probably not picking us off the parade.
Its interesting Aus betting markets suggest they have no idea.. Ire and SA on $4, France on 4.5 and we have slid to $5.. Ireland unbelievably started at $6 in Aus
not bad odds the QFs will obviously see all these shorten or blow out
novelty bets
Eng who? $13 not bad given their draw
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I give up. I'm 8 pages behind. Have no idea what you fluffybunnies are thinking or whinging about. Makes no fucking difference.
I'm going into this game, and any other game we're lucky enough to play thereafter, as if it's a knockout because it is.
This XXIII looks pretty damned good.
I'll see all you fluffybunnies in the morning, hoping we come out on the best side of the game, and that the best side wins, and that's us.
