Steve Tew: New Zealand ready for a gay All Black

taniwharugby

thankfully the media wont let this story go away!
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
The woman at the centre of the Chiefs scandal said the players made her feel like a "whore" and inappropriately touched her despite her saying no.
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Flexman said he did not know if the allegations were false - a turn-around from an earlier statement. 
On Wednesday night, Flexman denied a raft of allegations about the way players had treated 'Scarlette' (not her real name), saying independent witnesses would confirm his stance. 
Flexman would not say who the witnesses were and when confronted with the allegations that players had taunted 'Scarlette', including pouring beer on her, he said the "stakes were high" telling Stuff he had been talking to a QC.
On Thursday, Flexman said: "We've got two differing versions of events here so we are investigating and a thorough one is happening as we speak so we are not in a position to give you any type of response to that because I haven't yet been able to pursue it in enough detail to establish the facts and what actually happened," he said. 
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"I don't know. It would be remiss of me to commit either way until an investigation has actually been completed."
The consequences for the players involved could be career-ending with each contracted to the New Zealand Rugby Union.
"There's all sorts of sanctions that are open to the employer to take based on substantiated facts as a result of an investigation and that could include termination of one's employment," Flexman said. 
"That's only one of many sanctions that could apply in the terms of the collective. For me to preempt what's an appropriate outcome is premature.
NZRU has refused to comment.
"We will conduct an investigation as per the terms of the collective agreement that governs all of our professional players in terms of employment," Flexman said.
REGRET AT STRIPPER SLUR
Flexman said on Thursday he regretted earlier questioning the integrity of 'Scarlette's' choice of vocation.
On Wednesday, when it was discovered some Chiefs players had hired a stripper on the night <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/82713817/chiefs-apologise-launch-investigation-into-alleged-antigay-slur-at-post-season-party' title="">one of them was caught chanting a homophobic slur</a> toward team-mates, Flexman voiced his disapproval of hiring her, but disputed accusations of improper conduct by his players.
"You have got to remember this is one person's accusation and her standing in the community and culpability is not beyond reproach," Flexman had said.
On Thursday, however, speaking on Radio Sport, Flexman regretted the comment, saying he made it in a "high pressure situation".
Flexman said he apologised if his comment, as it appeared in the article, had offended the woman.
"I'm not in a position to make that assertion because I don't know the woman from a bar of soap," Flexman told Radio Sport in an interview with Martin Devlin.
"Anybody that knows me well, Martin [Devlin], knows that that's not the person I am, that's not consistent with the value set that I have. In no way, shape or form would I ever make that assertion about a woman based on a vocation that she chooses and has the choice to be involved in."
"The way it reads certainly gives the impression that I am questioning the integrity of her vocation and her choice around that and fundamentally I shouldn't be in a position to do that," Flexman said.
"And I guess, having re-read it, as it appears in the article, notwithstanding the context, I regret the way it's been phrased if I'm honest."
Flexman was committed to defending his players though, saying accusations of improper conduct were contentious with "contrary versions that cast doubt on that allegation from both our players and independent witnesses".
"I guess I was making the point to the Waikato Times [Stuff] that this is a really serious allegation, we have some contrary views or contrary statements that have been given to us so if you're going to print this material you need to be reasonably sure that you're on firm ground. And that should it be proven that the allegation as made is unsubstantiated then I think it does pose questions around the integrity and the character of this individual.
"And that's really the context around it, as opposed to me saying that because she's in the vocation that she is she doesn't have a right to be heard or that somehow her standing is diminished. That's not consistent with who I am or my values, frankly," Flexman told Radio Sport.
MADE TO FEEL LIKE A WHORE
The stripper hired by the Chiefs for a raucous end of season celebration says she was made to feel like a whore.
"They wanted me to be a whore, which I wasn't prepared to be," she told RNZ's Morning Report.
She felt what they did to her was inappropriate.
When asked if she would take a complaint to police, Scarlette said she'd been abused in the past and had a negative experience dealing with police.
Franchise bosses confirmed a stripper was engaged by players for their post-season get-together at a Waikato hot pool and said they were "very disappointed" and conceded the two incidents weren't a good look for the professional sports franchise.
The Super Rugby team, which lost to the Hurricanes in their Super Rugby semifinal on Saturday, celebrated the end of their season at the Okoroire hot pools, near Matamata. Such occasions are known in rugby and rugby league as Mad Monday.
Investigations were still ongoing as to which player it was who hired the stripper but there would be some very tough conversations with those involved, Flexman said. 
Management were not aware the stripper had been hired and were not present when she was performing, Flexman said.
He said if bosses had been aware they would have put a stop to the performance before it started.
'PACK MENTALITY'
Scarlette was booked to waitress for an hour and perform a strip routine but she said the night turned sour when players behaved badly, including touching her despite her repeated warnings not to.
"I told them not to pull this stuff with me. It's not on," Scarlette said.
"It was a pack mentality."â€‹
But Flexman strongly denied the allegations of improper behaviour, saying the franchise had independent witnesses who saw nothing untoward toward the woman.
"You have got to remember this is one person's accusation and her standing in the community and culpability is not beyond reproach," Flexman said.
However, he said players actions in hiring a stripper were not up to the organisation's own standards.
"I don't think it's a good look. Clearly it's something as an organisation, it's not good, and it's not acceptable."
When asked if hiring strippers was a common incident within rugby at professional level or within the culture of rugby elsewhere, including club level, he replied: "I don't know. I mean, I don't hear of it."
Flexman believed it remained to be seen whether the stripper incident would impact on the relationship the Super Rugby franchise had with sponsors. 
The team's major sponsors include Gallaghers, Waikato Draught, AON, Adidas, Placemakers and Generation Homes.
The incident comes after Chiefs player Michael Allardice on Tuesday apologised for chanting "here come the gays" toward teammates, who were in fancy dress costume.
Pools patron, Brendan Barraclough, complained about the slur and received an apology from both Flexman and Allardice.
In his apology for that incident Allardice said his behaviour yesterday "did not reflect the values of our team and organisation".
 - Stuff
</blockquote>

Wurzel

Flexman just walked out of his own press conference after being asked if any All Blacks were involved

mariner4life

Sam Cane's dominant tackle
 
 
 
 
Herald/Stuff writers that's a fucking joke you vermin

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="602884" data-time="1470266851">
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Why is it ok to call you a sheep fucker but career suicide to call an arab a goat/camel fucker, a gay a pillow biter or to allude to a woman being on her rags? Actually, I bet your boss would never dare say that to a Kiwi woman. I think what people are objecting to is this incredible double standard where you can say whatever the hell you like about one particular group, i.e. straight white men, but it's absolutely beyond the pale if they make similar comments about other groups. That's not a level playing field, that's one group basically being told to suck it up while others being actively encouraged to be offended at anything the perpetually outraged tell them to be offended about.
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</blockquote>
oh christ, here we go again with the straight white men are the real victim argument, poor dear.
 
firstly, you can't call a straight white man anything you want. if someone started sounding off in your workplace about your pathetically tiny cock, or called you a paedophile, or a rapist, how would that go down?
 
secondly, the reason you can't slag off the discriminated against is that they are fucking discriminated against and it perpetuates that. the woman on her rags one is just shit, because it implies that women cannot think clearly. women are paid less and get worse jobs in this country right now because that sort of attitude still exists, as ridiculous as that may seem. it is fucking wrong, people should not say it, and they should get taken to task when they do. you would want to know someone pretty bloody well (see what i did there?) and be in private for that joke to be appropriate.
 
there is a reason that sheep-fucker can be inoffensive. it can't really be interpreted as a serious accusation rather than a joke, and it is used to place someone in a group of what? the rural? nzers vs aussies? the welsh? pillow biter and goat-fucker a little less so, but i don't care about stuff like that - except that they're just kinda shit jokes - what's appropriate between individuals is totally up to them.
 
and just for the record, before the anyone pops along to call me regressive left again, i think free speech is far more important than not offending people - because free speech means that if someone is being an offensive fluffybunny they can be called an offensive fluffybunny. 
 
here come the gays i don't give a shit about, and robertson should still have his job - the fella saying the stripper shouldn't be believed because she's a stripper is easily the worst of them.

Mokey

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="602901" data-time="1470272166">
<div>
thankfully the media wont let this story go away!
</div>
</blockquote>
 
But wait a minute here - CEO gave the initial interview and said witnesses confirmed nothing happened and made the comment about the stripper's standing in society - and now he's saying they are doing an investigation because they don't actually know what happened?
 
Clearly not the smartest cookie in the packet. Backpedalling on everything is never a good look. Media management 101 - initially you are very concerned about the allegations and are undertaking a full investigation, we will keep you updated. Stop. No unconfirmed facts, no character slurs.

Rancid Schnitzel

Christ on a bike, when did I claim white men were victims? Fuck you write some shit.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="602929" data-time="1470276048">
<div>
oh christ, here we go again with the straight white men are the real victim argument, poor dear.
 
firstly, you can't call a straight white man anything you want. if someone started sounding off in your workplace about your pathetically tiny cock, or called you a paedophile, or a rapist, how would that go down?
 
secondly, the reason you can't slag off the discriminated against is that they are fucking discriminated against and it perpetuates that. the woman on her rags one is just shit, because it implies that women cannot think clearly. women are paid less and get worse jobs in this country right now because that sort of attitude still exists, as ridiculous as that may seem. it is fucking wrong, people should not say it, and they should get taken to task when they do. you would want to know someone pretty bloody well (see what i did there?) and be in private for that joke to be appropriate.
 
there is a reason that sheep-fucker can be inoffensive. it can't really be interpreted as a serious accusation rather than a joke, and it is used to place someone in a group of what? the rural? nzers vs aussies? the welsh? pillow biter and goat-fucker a little less so, but i don't care about stuff like that - except that they're just kinda shit jokes - what's appropriate between individuals is totally up to them.
 
and just for the record, before the baron pops along to call me regressive left again, i think free speech is far more important than not offending people - because free speech means that if someone is being an offensive fluffybunny they can be called an offensive fluffybunny. 
 
here come the gays i don't give a shit about, and robertson should still have his job - the fella saying the stripper shouldn't be believed because she's a stripper is easily the worst of them. 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Fuck off. I had not even been involved int his conversation. So take your snide bullshit and stick it up your ass.
 
Now carry on your crusade without involving me.

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="602948" data-time="1470279062">
<div>
Christ on a bike, when did I claim white men were victims? Fuck you write some shit.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="602884" data-time="1470266851">
<div>
Why is it ok to call you a sheep fucker but career suicide to call an arab a goat/camel fucker, a gay a pillow biter or to allude to a woman being on her rags? Actually, I bet your boss would never dare say that to a Kiwi woman. I think what people are objecting to is this incredible double standard where you can say whatever the hell you like about one particular group, i.e. straight white men, but it's absolutely beyond the pale if they make similar comments about other groups. That's not a level playing field, that's one group basically being told to suck it up while others being actively encouraged to be offended at anything the perpetually outraged tell them to be offended about.
</div>
</blockquote>

Hooroo

It's just dawned on me!
 
TSF is becoming like Planet Rugby. Just getting shitter and shitter by the day caused by a certain few

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="602951" data-time="1470279484">
<div>
Fuck off. I had not even been involved int his conversation. So take your snide bullshit and stick it up your ass.
 
Now carry on your crusade without involving me.
</div>
</blockquote>
yeah fair enough actually, consider it in my ass.

taniwharugby

we already have a topic discussing some of this in Off Topic, and me being the topic police might move this to that other thread soon anyway....

Nepia

Hopefully Mokey will give us the detailed version of her story in this thread then! ;)

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="602953" data-time="1470279732">
It's just dawned on me! 
TSF is becoming like Planet Rugby. Just getting shitter and shitter by the day caused by a certain few</blockquote>
Nah , when Uncle FB and Silver start posting here the place will have truly gone to the dogs though.

Wurzel

Seems on-topic to me: how a New Zealand rugby franchise can undo all of its good will in four days.
 
Here's the latest from the Chiefs major sponsor...
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
 
Major sponsor Gallagher Group on Thursday offered little sympathy for the stripper with corporate services executive Margaret Comer saying: â€œIf a woman takes her clothes off and walks around in a group of men, what are we supposed to do if one of them tries to touch her.â€</blockquote>

taniwharugby

why do the media feel the need to get the sponsors to comment, are they wanting them to come out and say 'how atrocious, we will cancel our sponsorship deal immediately!!'

Kirwan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Wurzel" data-cid="602963" data-time="1470282557">
<div>
Seems on-topic to me: how a New Zealand rugby franchise can undo all of its good will in four days.
 
Here's the latest from the Chiefs major sponsor...
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Why would anyone say that in public? Terrible PR, and a pretty shitty thing to say. No rights just because she's a stripper? What about if it was a girl in a short skirt? Same deal?

Wurzel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="602964" data-time="1470282960">
<div>
why do the media feel the need to get the sponsors to comment, are they wanting them to come out and say 'how atrocious, we will cancel our sponsorship deal immediately!!'
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Pretty much. Sponsors turned their backs on Tiger and Sharapova so it's a good source in a developing story. The Gallagher Group executive accepted an offer for an interview so it's not like her comments came off-guard as she was ambushed in the Countdown carpark.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="602965" data-time="1470283053">
Why would anyone say that in public? Terrible PR, and a pretty shitty thing to say. No rights just because she's a stripper? What about if it was a girl in a short skirt? Same deal?</blockquote>
 
They sell electric fences , they probably feel on safe ground with their customers saying something like that . 
Because I've led a sheltered life I know very little about strippers and such like but according to my favourite thread ever they usually have someone with them to stop the gropers/drunks?

Rancid Schnitzel

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Wurzel" data-cid="602967" data-time="1470283193">
<div>
Pretty much. Sponsors turned their backs on Tiger and Sharapova so it's a good source in a developing story. The Gallagher Group executive accepted an offer for an interview so it's not like her comments came off-guard as she was ambushed in the Countdown carpark.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I realize that, but seriously, with all that is going on in the world they seek out comment from a sponsor about a sports team they give money about a story on a stripper at a party?
 
Interesting it was a women at Gallagher that made the comment too, woulda made more sense to say 'go away, this isn't news', I seriously doubt they are gonna go to Stuff and break the news of canning a sponsorship

The Silver Fern

Steve Tew: New Zealand ready for a gay All Black