RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland
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@nzzp said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
and refs let people do this! It's so annoying seeing tacklers in front of cleaners, and refs blowing turnover penalties.
like a lot of things Ireland (and all good teams, but this week it's about Ireland) do, it's right on the edge of legal. But right on the edge is legal if the ref isn't calling it, so do something about it. FFS Sam have a whinge once in a while.
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@nzzp said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
and refs let people do this! It's so annoying seeing tacklers in front of cleaners, and refs blowing turnover penalties.
like a lot of things Ireland (and all good teams, but this week it's about Ireland) do, it's right on the edge of legal. But right on the edge is legal if the ref isn't calling it, so do something about it. FFS Sam have a whinge once in a while.
If we are smart enough this game should be won with 3s. Quick pick n go’s to take advantage of offiside loiterers and knock those penalty kicks over every time.
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@mariner4life and the numbers they throw around those contact situations at the guys on the fringes of the carrier to impede them just enough that the following Irish defender gets to latch on 1st
Just smart and disciplined.
@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@mariner4life and the numbers they throw around those contact situations at the guys on the fringes of the carrier to impede them just enough that the following Irish defender gets to latch on 1st
yeah, they're disruptive as shit, it's excellent work. Richie was the fucking master at that, do something without looking like you are doing anything.
Our particular arrogance in NZ at the moment seems to be that we plan for how we think rugby should be played, not how it is played.
And yet, somehow, still give up lots of penalties.And yet for all that i can still a clear path to us winning this weekend. And it won't take much improvement for it to happen.
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@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@mariner4life and the numbers they throw around those contact situations at the guys on the fringes of the carrier to impede them just enough that the following Irish defender gets to latch on 1st
yeah, they're disruptive as shit, it's excellent work. Richie was the fucking master at that, do something without looking like you are doing anything.
Our particular arrogance in NZ at the moment seems to be that we plan for how we think rugby should be played, not how it is played.
And yet, somehow, still give up lots of penalties.And yet for all that i can still a clear path to us winning this weekend. And it won't take much improvement for it to happen.
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@mariner4life and the numbers they throw around those contact situations at the guys on the fringes of the carrier to impede them just enough that the following Irish defender gets to latch on 1st
yeah, they're disruptive as shit, it's excellent work. Richie was the fucking master at that, do something without looking like you are doing anything.
Our particular arrogance in NZ at the moment seems to be that we plan for how we think rugby should be played, not how it is played.
And yet, somehow, still give up lots of penalties.And yet for all that i can still a clear path to us winning this weekend. And it won't take much improvement for it to happen.
Thats the most frustrating part. Time to put
a complete performance together -
If we can:
Not play too much inside our own 40
Chase and contest our kicks every single time
Don't go past the ball on defenseWe'll go a long way towards winning this game.
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If we can:
Not play too much inside our own 40
Chase and contest our kicks every single time
Don't go past the ball on defenseWe'll go a long way towards winning this game.
@mariner4life yep, and I think that is the most frustrating part of the past 4 years, and last 15 or so months in particular, the adjustments needed to contest with the likes of France, SA & Ireland are small, but we seem reluctant or incapable of making them.
Your post earlier is in line with my thinking in that I think alot of these issues it seems like a reluctance to play this way as this isnt how we want the game played...
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@mariner4life yep, and I think that is the most frustrating part of the past 4 years, and last 15 or so months in particular, the adjustments needed to contest with the likes of France, SA & Ireland are small, but we seem reluctant or incapable of making them.
Your post earlier is in line with my thinking in that I think alot of these issues it seems like a reluctance to play this way as this isnt how we want the game played...
@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@mariner4life yep, and I think that is the most frustrating part of the past 4 years, and last 15 or so months in particular, the adjustments needed to contest with the likes of France, SA & Ireland are small, but we seem reluctant or incapable of making them.
Your post earlier is in line with my thinking in that I think alot of these issues it seems like a reluctance to play this way as this isnt how we want the game played...
Pride comes before a fall. I don't think this team have heard that one. These ABs are one of the more stupid ABs teams I've seen. We either don't want to read the situation or we can't. We just need to play smarter and be pragmatic
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So which loosies would you play against Ireland given their skill intelligence and ferocity in the rucks?
@nostrildamus I'd go with Frizell 6, Cane 7, Savea 8.
Have Blackadder to replace like for like on Cane, Frizell and add too the trio If Savea needed to come off. -
lol Blackadder based on what? 25 pretty average minutes in 2 years?
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@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
This was circulating social media 12 years ago...
Who got us this time?
Wrong pic.
That's Piri Weepu and not Beaver.
Indeed, Weepu, did most certainly not, have this. He was taking and missing kicks in a game we won 8 - 7 with an injured hammy (or other leg injury) that he either a) didn’t tell anyone about or b) told the brains trust about and they continued with this plan.
Can you imagine if we lost that game, the recriminations echoing down the ages about this ‘game management’.
God bless Stephen Donald.
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Indeed, Weepu, did most certainly not, have this. He was taking and missing kicks in a game we won 8 - 7 with an injured hammy (or other leg injury) that he either a) didn’t tell anyone about or b) told the brains trust about and they continued with this plan.
Can you imagine if we lost that game, the recriminations echoing down the ages about this ‘game management’.
God bless Stephen Donald.
@dejo pretty sure that circulated after Slade was injured, prior to the final.
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@dejo pretty sure that circulated after Slade was injured, prior to the final.
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looking back to the last time we played Ireland, we are so much better than we were then
Fullback: J Barrett was okay, B Barrett is frustrating us all. Lets call it even
Wings: Reece/Jordan v Jordan/Telea. This Jordan is better than the 2022 version that was feeling his way back in. Telea is better than Reece. 2023 wins
Centre: Ioane/Ioane even
2nd 5: Havili v JBarrett. A nothing player against a big lump who will get us on the front foot and can throw a dinky little pass. Huge upgrade for 2023
1st 5: BBarrett v Mo'unga. This was the death throws of BB at 10, and while RM is hardly a world beater, he's significantly better than 2022 BB
9: Smith/Smith even
Loose Forwards. Cane/Savea/A Ioane v Cane/Savea/Frizzell 2023 wins this by virtue of Frizzell's current form and the way he plays making the others, particularly Savea, better.
Locks: Retallick/Whitelock v SBarrett/Retallic (assumed) 2023. Retallick wasn't in great form, SBarrett has grown and grown and now plays with the aggression and accuracy we need
Props: Bower/Laulala v actually we don't know yet. This could be even though you could argue that Laulala has improved. If Lomax can play then 2023 is ahead
Hooker: Taylor/Coles v Taylor/ST I give this to 2023 just, as Taylor is playing better, but ST has dropped away a little. It wouldn't shock me to see Coles in the 16 shirt this weekendBench: This is telling
Coles, Karl T, Ofa, Vaa'i Paps, Fakatava, Mo'unga, RTS v
Coles/ST, Props, Whitelock, Paps, Roigard, Dmac, ALB
This is a huge improvement. There is genuine impact and experience there. That 2022 bench is so ordinary.Ireland have the same players playing the same way. We lost that game by 10 points, and this AB side is more than 10 points better than June 2022.
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looking back to the last time we played Ireland, we are so much better than we were then
Fullback: J Barrett was okay, B Barrett is frustrating us all. Lets call it even
Wings: Reece/Jordan v Jordan/Telea. This Jordan is better than the 2022 version that was feeling his way back in. Telea is better than Reece. 2023 wins
Centre: Ioane/Ioane even
2nd 5: Havili v JBarrett. A nothing player against a big lump who will get us on the front foot and can throw a dinky little pass. Huge upgrade for 2023
1st 5: BBarrett v Mo'unga. This was the death throws of BB at 10, and while RM is hardly a world beater, he's significantly better than 2022 BB
9: Smith/Smith even
Loose Forwards. Cane/Savea/A Ioane v Cane/Savea/Frizzell 2023 wins this by virtue of Frizzell's current form and the way he plays making the others, particularly Savea, better.
Locks: Retallick/Whitelock v SBarrett/Retallic (assumed) 2023. Retallick wasn't in great form, SBarrett has grown and grown and now plays with the aggression and accuracy we need
Props: Bower/Laulala v actually we don't know yet. This could be even though you could argue that Laulala has improved. If Lomax can play then 2023 is ahead
Hooker: Taylor/Coles v Taylor/ST I give this to 2023 just, as Taylor is playing better, but ST has dropped away a little. It wouldn't shock me to see Coles in the 16 shirt this weekendBench: This is telling
Coles, Karl T, Ofa, Vaa'i Paps, Fakatava, Mo'unga, RTS v
Coles/ST, Props, Whitelock, Paps, Roigard, Dmac, ALB
This is a huge improvement. There is genuine impact and experience there. That 2022 bench is so ordinary.Ireland have the same players playing the same way. We lost that game by 10 points, and this AB side is more than 10 points better than June 2022.
@mariner4life personally for me ST has to be there, he was one of the few forwards that gained any go forward from the previous matches, plus he is not a hot head. Although Coles might have gained ascendancy for whatever reason up the pecking order, he is not someone I would play against a team that thrives on penalties.
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looking back to the last time we played Ireland, we are so much better than we were then
Fullback: J Barrett was okay, B Barrett is frustrating us all. Lets call it even
Wings: Reece/Jordan v Jordan/Telea. This Jordan is better than the 2022 version that was feeling his way back in. Telea is better than Reece. 2023 wins
Centre: Ioane/Ioane even
2nd 5: Havili v JBarrett. A nothing player against a big lump who will get us on the front foot and can throw a dinky little pass. Huge upgrade for 2023
1st 5: BBarrett v Mo'unga. This was the death throws of BB at 10, and while RM is hardly a world beater, he's significantly better than 2022 BB
9: Smith/Smith even
Loose Forwards. Cane/Savea/A Ioane v Cane/Savea/Frizzell 2023 wins this by virtue of Frizzell's current form and the way he plays making the others, particularly Savea, better.
Locks: Retallick/Whitelock v SBarrett/Retallic (assumed) 2023. Retallick wasn't in great form, SBarrett has grown and grown and now plays with the aggression and accuracy we need
Props: Bower/Laulala v actually we don't know yet. This could be even though you could argue that Laulala has improved. If Lomax can play then 2023 is ahead
Hooker: Taylor/Coles v Taylor/ST I give this to 2023 just, as Taylor is playing better, but ST has dropped away a little. It wouldn't shock me to see Coles in the 16 shirt this weekendBench: This is telling
Coles, Karl T, Ofa, Vaa'i Paps, Fakatava, Mo'unga, RTS v
Coles/ST, Props, Whitelock, Paps, Roigard, Dmac, ALB
This is a huge improvement. There is genuine impact and experience there. That 2022 bench is so ordinary.Ireland have the same players playing the same way. We lost that game by 10 points, and this AB side is more than 10 points better than June 2022.
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@mariner4life personally for me ST has to be there, he was one of the few forwards that gained any go forward from the previous matches, plus he is not a hot head. Although Coles might have gained ascendancy for whatever reason up the pecking order, he is not someone I would play against a team that thrives on penalties.
@bayimports said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@mariner4life personally for me ST has to be there, he was one of the few forwards that gained any go forward from the previous matches, plus he is not a hot head. Although Coles might have gained ascendancy for whatever reason up the pecking order, he is not someone I would play against a team that thrives on penalties.
i would pick him. But then i am not a selector
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@mariner4life
But we had home advantage in the 2022 game.
That is worth some points.@Frank said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@mariner4life
But we had home advantage in the 2022 game.
That is worth some points.yep, absolutely. But you cannot deny that this iteration of the ABs is better than than the June 2022 version. Couple of new assistant coaches since then too.
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@taniwharugby yeah maybe you're right, for some reason I thought it only came out afterwards and I remember being livid with Henry. What was the deal then - why couldn't Crudes/Dagg kick - were they really too shit? Memory is hazy.
@dejo think weepu did the kicking straight after Slade went down and Cruden was called in?
You could argue we played 5 10s in 2011.
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@Frank said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@mariner4life
But we had home advantage in the 2022 game.
That is worth some points.yep, absolutely. But you cannot deny that this iteration of the ABs is better than than the June 2022 version. Couple of new assistant coaches since then too.
@mariner4life Lots of good stuff in your recent sequence of posts.
I'd done the same analysis of the team the played Ireland in the three tests last time vs the team this time, and we're significantly better - especially on the bench, and especially if Lomax and de Groot play. But - also in the coaches' box!!! I hope Schmidt is bringing lots of insights.
It will be bloody handy if Lomax is fit and firing - but, I've got a nasty feeling he won't quite be. At best, we might see him and de Groot off the bench. Otherwise we're going to be weak at tighthead - starting and bench.
Interestingly, in the first test in that home series, we dominated their scrum - and watching the Jaapies take apart their lineout, gives me plenty to hope on. But, they are fucking well organized and play some beautiful patterns - so it's going to be a massive test for our midfield (and outside backs) - if we pass that defensive test it will go a long way towards winning. If they cut us up, we're fucked.
But, as @Duluth says, we have firepower to hurt them and by lots and quickly.
It's also worth looking a bit at the results in their win streak - a few close-ish calls on the scoreboard vs the Jaapies, Australia, Samoa - and even Italy. Haven't watched many of those games, but they're definitely not invincible. We tend to focus too much on ourselves.
I've got no idea what will happen in this match - I can see it being tight as fuck, or I can see either team winning comfortably - but I've kind of got a hunch that it might be a case of who dares wins.
If we're prepared to throw caution to the wind in terms of the physicality that we bring - and back ourselves to do it without conceding cards, then that might well be the path to victory. In our hey-day, we'd regularly produce those sort of performances, most memorably vs Australia - particularly when we'd lost the first Bledisloe test - and just blow them off the park.
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i only need to think back to SA last year. We had come off that Ireland loss. Then we had been as impotent as i had ever seen an AB team.
A week later we fucking pounded the Boks in SA. Pounded them. -
If we can:
Not play too much inside our own 40
Chase and contest our kicks every single time
Don't go past the ball on defenseWe'll go a long way towards winning this game.
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
If we can:
Not play too much inside our own 40
Chase and contest our kicks every single time
Don't go past the ball on defenseWe'll go a long way towards winning this game.
and learn to play to the refs!
