RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland
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@canefan said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@nzzp said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Dodge said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
The obsession with refs on every thread this week when every fan complains about the ref after a game their team is involved in anyway is doing my head in.
All the refs are doing their best and they are all better than we give them credit for.
It's because refs have such a significant influence on the game. I don't think yo usee this in League, or even in Cricket. It highlights how damn broken the sport is at the moment that people are having earnest discussions about this TMO vs that TMO.
I think we would all prefer for games to be settled on the field without major intervention. But the game is so fast and so complicated now, and with teams all pushing the boundaries, along with the extremely tight tackle rules (and inconsistent rulings), it has become far too much of a talking point
don't forget the slo mo grainy attempt to determine if the impact was shoulder to shoulder or shoulder to head, and a play on or red card ... or if there was a shoulder to chest in a ruck cleanout that nullifies a try. TMO have to earn their keep after all
@nzzp said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@canefan said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@nzzp said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Dodge said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
The obsession with refs on every thread this week when every fan complains about the ref after a game their team is involved in anyway is doing my head in.
All the refs are doing their best and they are all better than we give them credit for.
It's because refs have such a significant influence on the game. I don't think yo usee this in League, or even in Cricket. It highlights how damn broken the sport is at the moment that people are having earnest discussions about this TMO vs that TMO.
I think we would all prefer for games to be settled on the field without major intervention. But the game is so fast and so complicated now, and with teams all pushing the boundaries, along with the extremely tight tackle rules (and inconsistent rulings), it has become far too much of a talking point
don't forget the slo mo grainy attempt to determine if the impact was shoulder to shoulder or shoulder to head, and a play on or red card ... or if there was a shoulder to chest in a ruck cleanout that nullifies a try. TMO have to earn their keep after all
And all the while they miss the simple stuff
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@Dodge said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
The obsession with refs on every thread this week when every fan complains about the ref after a game their team is involved in anyway is doing my head in.
All the refs are doing their best and they are all better than we give them credit for.
It's because refs have such a significant influence on the game. I don't think yo usee this in League, or even in Cricket. It highlights how damn broken the sport is at the moment that people are having earnest discussions about this TMO vs that TMO.
@nzzp said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Dodge said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
The obsession with refs on every thread this week when every fan complains about the ref after a game their team is involved in anyway is doing my head in.
All the refs are doing their best and they are all better than we give them credit for.
It's because refs have such a significant influence on the game. I don't think yo usee this in League, or even in Cricket. It highlights how damn broken the sport is at the moment that people are having earnest discussions about this TMO vs that TMO.
The sport is very, very difficult to ref. It's complex and you just can't see everything. The majority of rucks and ruck turnovers could go either way depending on who the ref is and what they see: was there a clear release, did the jackler have their hands on the ground/player or ball, were they supporting their weight, what was the angle of entry, were the cleaners obstructed and prevented from hitting them in time etc.
On top of that you add in incompetent TMOs (Jonker specifically) who go to great lengths to find some things and completely ignore others, often in the same passage of play. You could give that guy 10 years to make a correct decision and he'd still fuck it up. the standard for compliance with the rules is hugely different when a try is scored becaue everything is double-checked, and certain rules aren't even applied close to the line.
Absurd inconsistencies in cards given which have a massive impact on results, and then further absurdity in the sanctions given for cards.
It's really complex, and we can't even deal with the basics like getting an offside line policed consistently. -
The obsession with refs on every thread this week when every fan complains about the ref after a game their team is involved in anyway is doing my head in.
All the refs are doing their best and they are all better than we give them credit for.
@Dodge said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
The obsession with refs on every thread this week when every fan complains about the ref after a game their team is involved in anyway is doing my head in.
All the refs are doing their best and they are all better than we give them credit for.
Appreciate it's difficult. Was at Cardiff in '07 and I blamed the players for not managing Barnes rather than the other way around.
But as @nzzp has pointed out, the reffing/TMO interaction in this RWC has been problematic to say the least. Some of the reffing in games involving the lesser teams has been shocking to the point of being suspect.
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@kiwiinmelb said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Watching irelands attacking patterns , body’s in motion everywhere, it’s impressive,
Much has been made of our somewhat outdated defensive structures where we still go man on man.
I have a fear we get a few reads wrong and it costs us .
Some of it can be pretty borderline. In a way it reminds me of the excellent Brumbies teams who used to put a lot of runners ahead of the ball, until they weren't allowed to anymore
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So with Lomax pronounced fit, I think this is the likely 23?
- de Groot
- Taylor
- Lomax
- Barrett
- Retallick
- Frizell
- Cane
- Savea
- Smith
- Mo'unga
- Telea
- Barrett
- Ioane
- Jordan
- Barrett
- Coles
- Tu'ungafasi
- Newell
- Whitelock
- Papalii
- Roigard
- McKenzie
- Lienert-Brown
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Got a feeling on the bench they will go for Christie over Roigard as well , experience needed
@george33 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Got a feeling on the bench they will go for Christie over Roigard as well , experience needed
can we get one of the "fluffy bunny" filters set up for the word "experience"?
experience at being bang "average"? he's only got 19 tests so hardly a veteran who has been through some shit and come out on top...playing smith for 60-70 minutes is the fucking experience we need
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This week I sort of feel the same as the Aussies fans did last week.
Hoping we win and keep the WC dreams alive, also in the back of the mind thinking we could be going home after this weekend, what a shit feeling.@Chris said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
This week I sort of feel the same as the Aussies fans did last week.
Hoping we win and keep the WC dreams alive, also in the back of the mind thinking we could be going home after this weekend, what a shit feeling.We have more hope than they did!!!
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@george33 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Got a feeling on the bench they will go for Christie over Roigard as well , experience needed
can we get one of the "fluffy bunny" filters set up for the word "experience"?
experience at being bang "average"? he's only got 19 tests so hardly a veteran who has been through some shit and come out on top...playing smith for 60-70 minutes is the fucking experience we need
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@george33 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Got a feeling on the bench they will go for Christie over Roigard as well , experience needed
can we get one of the "fluffy bunny" filters set up for the word "experience"?
experience at being bang "average"? he's only got 19 tests so hardly a veteran who has been through some shit and come out on top...playing smith for 60-70 minutes is the fucking experience we need
Ask yourself, in the last 15 minutes when everyone is tiring, and we want someone to do something brilliant that might just turn the game, does Roigard or Christie spring to mind?
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Roigard should be there, but I reckon there is a slightly more than 50/50 chance that Foster picks Christie. He's got a lot of history of picking the more experienced but poorer performing player in big games, and Roigard made a few mistakes in his last outing that Foster can point to. To be fair, Roigard is something of a risk - a risk worth taking - and of course if Foster had played Roigard more sooner, then he wouldn't be - those mistakes would have been ironed out, or at worst we'd have known properly what the cost/benefit looks like. Still, fingers crossed for the selections - Christie isn't experienced enough to be in the Foster undroppable group.
Foster almost certainly starts Beauden again, despite McKenzie playing miles better all season, though even he must be seeing it by now, surely. I fear we're going to see McKenzie brought on with 10 minutes to play, making a few mistakes when forced to play catch-up footy, not being able to save us and then copping flak for being error-prone. That will shit me.
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@george33 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Got a feeling on the bench they will go for Christie over Roigard as well , experience needed
can we get one of the "fluffy bunny" filters set up for the word "experience"?
experience at being bang "average"? he's only got 19 tests so hardly a veteran who has been through some shit and come out on top...playing smith for 60-70 minutes is the fucking experience we need
Ask yourself, in the last 15 minutes when everyone is tiring, and we want someone to do something brilliant that might just turn the game, does Roigard or Christie spring to mind?
@canefan said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@george33 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Got a feeling on the bench they will go for Christie over Roigard as well , experience needed
can we get one of the "fluffy bunny" filters set up for the word "experience"?
experience at being bang "average"? he's only got 19 tests so hardly a veteran who has been through some shit and come out on top...playing smith for 60-70 minutes is the fucking experience we need
Ask yourself, in the last 15 minutes when everyone is tiring, and we want someone to do something brilliant that might just turn the game, does Roigard or Christie spring to mind?
i say this as someone that actually quite liked christie...roigard every day...its just such an obvious step up
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Arrgh!! It has infected the All Blacks! I cannot forgive Foster for this!
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/i-wouldnt-call-it-a-hatred-all-blacks-respect-ireland-but-are-relishing-the-chance-to-set-the-record-straight/a650957055.html
“Last year matters in a sense of taking the learnings, but I believe we're a totally different team to July last year,” Smith insisted. -
So with Lomax pronounced fit, I think this is the likely 23?
- de Groot
- Taylor
- Lomax
- Barrett
- Retallick
- Frizell
- Cane
- Savea
- Smith
- Mo'unga
- Telea
- Barrett
- Ioane
- Jordan
- Barrett
- Coles
- Tu'ungafasi
- Newell
- Whitelock
- Papalii
- Roigard
- McKenzie
- Lienert-Brown
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@Chris said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
This week I sort of feel the same as the Aussies fans did last week.
Hoping we win and keep the WC dreams alive, also in the back of the mind thinking we could be going home after this weekend, what a shit feeling.We have more hope than they did!!!
@canefan said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Chris said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
This week I sort of feel the same as the Aussies fans did last week.
Hoping we win and keep the WC dreams alive, also in the back of the mind thinking we could be going home after this weekend, what a shit feeling.We have more hope than they did!!!
The hope will ultimately bring you down with this team. I am resigned to NZ not winning the cup. We may lose this weekend or the next or the next. It will most likely happen. I have accepted that. As a result I am not at all nervous about this week.
I still want NZ to win though and they have my support.
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I'd forgotten that Barnes reffed the third Irish test...
Interesting that BBBR can point out the quality of Ireland's ruck play and their exit, and yet we aren't particularly good at either...
I wonder if the TMO should ultimately be replaced by AI. Just as chatGPT can rapidly summarise large amounts of information into a document, surely they could do the same with replay decisions. Set parameters, and allow the tech to see what are considered correct decisions, pretty soon it will get the idea and probably be far more consistent than the guys doing the job right now
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I'd forgotten that Barnes reffed the third Irish test...
Interesting that BBBR can point out the quality of Ireland's ruck play and their exit, and yet we aren't particularly good at either...
I wonder if the TMO should ultimately be replaced by AI. Just as chatGPT can rapidly summarise large amounts of information into a document, surely they could do the same with replay decisions. Set parameters, and allow the tech to see what are considered correct decisions, pretty soon it will get the idea and probably be far more consistent than the guys doing the job right now
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@canefan ha I imagine if we relied on AI, they would pick up all the technicalities we see, and then some...
@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@canefan ha I imagine if we relied on AI, they would pick up all the technicalities we see, and then some...
Its all about setting parameters. I don't know if you have used chat GPT. The tech is amazing. Build a bank of correct decisions, especially in terms of tackling, and it could be taught to match up similar situations and make a ruling based on that
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@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@canefan ha I imagine if we relied on AI, they would pick up all the technicalities we see, and then some...
Its all about setting parameters. I don't know if you have used chat GPT. The tech is amazing. Build a bank of correct decisions, especially in terms of tackling, and it could be taught to match up similar situations and make a ruling based on that
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@canefan not sure I'm with you then.
Wouldnt you be setting parameters for it to allow stuff to be let go?
It is either a knock on/forward pass, or it isnt, it is through the gate or it isnt, no leeway really?
@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@canefan not sure I'm with you then.
Wouldnt you be setting parameters for it to allow stuff to be let go?
It is either a knock on/forward pass, or it isnt, it is through the gate or it isnt, no leeway really?
I wouldn't use it for everything. The thought occurred because I read that article about Irish test 3 and Porter getting away with a similar tackle to Angus. AI should be able to recognise that both incidents were similar enough to warrant the same penalty
