RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland
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The Great Teacher
Who can hate the Irish? This is the country that gave us Yeats and Joyce and Wilde and Beckett, after all. A good chunk of us in this part of the world have roots in Ireland. And does anyone recall that the Irish, of all peoples, probably hate the English more than anyone?
But aside from their outsized contribution to literature, drama, music and oratory, the Irish have recently become rather good at rugby. To be sure, they have picked the brains and talent of other countries to do that, but in the process they have developed their own style, cohesion and power to the point that they have struck fear into the hearts of the traditional rugby superpowers. As that Irishman Wilde said: “Be yourself; everyone else is taken”.
Ireland’s exit in the quarter final of this World Cup is no disgrace. They just came up against an All Black side that was wounded and may have wanted it more. As well, to quote Andy Farrell in his post-match presser, these knockout games can swing on small moments - Jordie Barrett’s try-saving tackle, Sam Whitelock’s steal at the end, Sexton’s missed shots at goal. A tiny adjustment in the curtains of fate could have changed the denouement entirely.
That the ABs, to win that match, had to dig deeper than they have done in probably any other match since the 2011 final against France spoke volumes not only for their new-found resilience and self-belief but also for Ireland’s never-say-die commitment and ability to keep picking themselves up from setbacks. This Ireland team were never beaten, until the final whistle. Every drop of blood that could be shed on both sides was done so.
As for Sexton, sure he can be ornery, mouthy and hard to like at times. But is he more so than Fitzy or Coles or Marshall? Put it this way, if this 38-year-old warrior been playing in black would any of his most bitter critics here have been so quick to condemn him? And could anyone in their heart of hearts really claim that Ireland’s recent successes have not made watching rugby union a richer and more thrilling experience?
As for the All Blacks and their lame duck coach, it has been a tough few years, unquestionably, with a host of undesirable ‘firsts’ on the team resume. One could almost smell the regret seeping from the hard-nosed money men at Silver Lake. But the quarter final felt like a form of redemption and a reminder that sport, like life generally, can swing on the smallest of moments.
To quote another great Irishman in James Joyce:
“To learn, one must be humble. But life is the great teacher.”
Firstly, I really don't have a problem with Ireland growing and becoming no.1 - it's good for the game and we end up with nail-biters like Saturday. But as far as I'm concerned, there's banter and there's obnoxious disrespect for the opposition and what the game is about.
On the former, what goes on the pitch stays on the pitch,- think POM, Gregan, Fitzy, JdV or Colesy - but it's fair game for supporters to take the piss out of those situations in the same spirit, particularly when the biter is bitten.
If Reiko said something after the match, then that's bad too and I'd pretty much imagine he got a talking to by the leadership group, but he doesn't act like that all the time. I'd put Maro Itoje in the same camp and it's been bloody great to see Borthwick stamp that sort of stuff out. He's a better player for that.
But there's a clear distinction between that and the sort of stuff which Sexton gets up to almost as a deliberate policy - abusing the refs, Hollywood dives and generally acting like a childish fluffybunny after the game. I'll include Rassie & Eddie Jones in that camp as well. It crosses a line and it's bang out of order. It's a blight on the game and Sexton does nothing but demean his reputation as one of the great rugby players.
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@ShitMcCaw said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Meh. You are better than us but all the bad mouthing of sexton by all blacks fans comes across as weak to me. He pumped you a good few times and that doesn’t sit will with you because he’s not meek and self effacing like you expect us to be. But guess what. Winning is what counts and we’ve gone from never beating you to pumping you five times in ten years. Would be a sad and soppy game if we turned everything into a saddo popularity contest. Maybe have a bit of grace and realise he’s one of the best you’ve come across.
Sorry, mate, but this is one of the worst takes on Sexton I've ever read. He is loathed by every group of rugby fans around the world, not just us AB fans who supposedly expect him to be meek. He's "pumped" plenty of other teams many more times and their fans all agree that he is a fucking cock (still a great rugby player, and probably the second greatest Irish player in m lifetime, to be fair to the man).
@junior said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ShitMcCaw said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Meh. You are better than us but all the bad mouthing of sexton by all blacks fans comes across as weak to me. He pumped you a good few times and that doesn’t sit will with you because he’s not meek and self effacing like you expect us to be. But guess what. Winning is what counts and we’ve gone from never beating you to pumping you five times in ten years. Would be a sad and soppy game if we turned everything into a saddo popularity contest. Maybe have a bit of grace and realise he’s one of the best you’ve come across.
Sorry, mate, but this is one of the worst takes on Sexton I've ever read. He is loathed by every group of rugby fans around the world, not just us AB fans who supposedly expect him to be meek. He's "pumped" plenty of other teams many more times and their fans all agree that he is a fucking cock (still a great rugby player, and probably the second greatest Irish player in m lifetime, to be fair to the man).
Keith Wood?
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People saying Ireland didn't choke but I think they did a bit at the end there. 36 odd phases and they didn't really fire a shot, I think too scared of losing the ball given the occasion. They'd do things differently if they had that time again I think.
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@chimoaus said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Losing to France was a master stroke, all hail king Fozzie.
Cunning bugger, eh? He's in the Semis and Gaultier isn't.
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@chimoaus said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Losing to France was a master stroke, all hail king Fozzie.
Cunning bugger, eh? He's in the Semis and Gaultier isn't.
3 losers in the semis.
England hottest of unbeaten hot hot favourites.
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People saying Ireland didn't choke but I think they did a bit at the end there. 36 odd phases and they didn't really fire a shot, I think too scared of losing the ball given the occasion. They'd do things differently if they had that time again I think.
@No-Quarter They backed their "cut and paste" attack to pry open the ABs defence.
They had made good progress down the pitch. The Irish breakdown work was exemplary for the most part in that last stanza and they were getting nearer to the line.
It took incredible discipline for NZ not to cough up the penalty (which would have been kicked to the corner) and patience to wait for opportunities to effect the winning breakdown turnover/penalty.
Ireland didn't think NZ had that patience and discipline. I'll bet a fair number of NZ fans didn't either
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On the players behavior on the field - I loved Rieko holding his ear to the crowd, absolutely fucking awesome. Just like I laughed my ass off when Merhts pulled the fingers to SA fans after winning the game. Rugby wouldn't be the same without Gregan's epic sledge. POMs "shit McCaw" sledge was superb, and credit to Cane for sticking it to him this game. This is professional sport, not fucking kids ruppa rugby, these guys are at the top of their field and are going to battle every time they play, I'd fucking hate it if any of that stuff was removed from the game. May as well watch robots.
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@No-Quarter They backed their "cut and paste" attack to pry open the ABs defence.
They had made good progress down the pitch. The Irish breakdown work was exemplary for the most part in that last stanza and they were getting nearer to the line.
It took incredible discipline for NZ not to cough up the penalty (which would have been kicked to the corner) and patience to wait for opportunities to effect the winning breakdown turnover/penalty.
Ireland didn't think NZ had that patience and discipline. I'll bet a fair number of NZ fans didn't either
@stodders said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
They backed their "cut and paste" attack to pry open the ABs defence.
That was quite the telling comment from Foz.
As if, in actual fact, they have fuck all variation, and once you figure it out, you can defend it all day.
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On the players behavior on the field - I loved Rieko holding his ear to the crowd, absolutely fucking awesome. Just like I laughed my ass off when Merhts pulled the fingers to SA fans after winning the game. Rugby wouldn't be the same without Gregan's epic sledge. POMs "shit McCaw" sledge was superb, and credit to Cane for sticking it to him this game. This is professional sport, not fucking kids ruppa rugby, these guys are at the top of their field and are going to battle every time they play, I'd fucking hate it if any of that stuff was removed from the game. May as well watch robots.
@No-Quarter said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
On the players behavior on the field - I loved Rieko holding his ear to the crowd, absolutely fucking awesome. Just like I laughed my ass off when Merhts pulled the fingers to SA fans after winning the game. Rugby wouldn't be the same without Gregan's epic sledge. POMs "shit McCaw" sledge was superb, and credit to Cane for sticking it to him this game. This is professional sport, not fucking kids ruppa rugby, these guys are at the top of their field and are going to battle every time they play, I'd fucking hate it if any of that stuff was removed from the game. May as well watch robots.
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SB and GG say Hi
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@stodders said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
They backed their "cut and paste" attack to pry open the ABs defence.
That was quite the telling comment from Foz.
As if, in actual fact, they have fuck all variation, and once you figure it out, you can defend it all day.
@Frank It is a bit like the Bok defence. You know what is coming, but stopping it is another matter.
NZ in the series loss couldn't deal with it. It speaks volumes that the coaching team and players put in the work to be able to deal with it on the weekend.
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@stodders said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
They backed their "cut and paste" attack to pry open the ABs defence.
That was quite the telling comment from Foz.
As if, in actual fact, they have fuck all variation, and once you figure it out, you can defend it all day.
@Frank said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@stodders said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
They backed their "cut and paste" attack to pry open the ABs defence.
That was quite the telling comment from Foz.
As if, in actual fact, they have fuck all variation, and once you figure it out, you can defend it all day.
I noticed this in my drunken haze at the ground. It was all very methodical.
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@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
I thought Barnes got the first scrum wrong tho - ABs THP folded in for me
Alex Corbisiero has a look at the scrums.
@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
I thought Barnes got the first scrum wrong tho - ABs THP folded in for me
Alex Corbisiero has a look at the scrums.
Fuck there's some bullshit about crediting these guys this much ability to judge nano seconds and the ultra subtle reactions.
Mirroring? What the fuck us that? Little tugs on the arm?
Fuck these guys are just pushing like fuck, with all the oxygen in their brains having been depleted in milli-seconds, seeing stars and hoping like hell they're pushing harder and straighter than the other guys.
I seriously doubt they're making such nuanced splut second decisions.
Any serious frontrowers out there want to comment? Am I just too amateur?
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@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
I thought Barnes got the first scrum wrong tho - ABs THP folded in for me
Alex Corbisiero has a look at the scrums.
Fuck there's some bullshit about crediting these guys this much ability to judge nano seconds and the ultra subtle reactions.
Mirroring? What the fuck us that? Little tugs on the arm?
Fuck these guys are just pushing like fuck, with all the oxygen in their brains having been depleted in milli-seconds, seeing stars and hoping like hell they're pushing harder and straighter than the other guys.
I seriously doubt they're making such nuanced splut second decisions.
Any serious frontrowers out there want to comment? Am I just too amateur?
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On the players behavior on the field - I loved Rieko holding his ear to the crowd, absolutely fucking awesome. Just like I laughed my ass off when Merhts pulled the fingers to SA fans after winning the game. Rugby wouldn't be the same without Gregan's epic sledge. POMs "shit McCaw" sledge was superb, and credit to Cane for sticking it to him this game. This is professional sport, not fucking kids ruppa rugby, these guys are at the top of their field and are going to battle every time they play, I'd fucking hate it if any of that stuff was removed from the game. May as well watch robots.
@No-Quarter indeed, but if you want to dance you gotta pay the piper.
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@junior said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ShitMcCaw said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Meh. You are better than us but all the bad mouthing of sexton by all blacks fans comes across as weak to me. He pumped you a good few times and that doesn’t sit will with you because he’s not meek and self effacing like you expect us to be. But guess what. Winning is what counts and we’ve gone from never beating you to pumping you five times in ten years. Would be a sad and soppy game if we turned everything into a saddo popularity contest. Maybe have a bit of grace and realise he’s one of the best you’ve come across.
Sorry, mate, but this is one of the worst takes on Sexton I've ever read. He is loathed by every group of rugby fans around the world, not just us AB fans who supposedly expect him to be meek. He's "pumped" plenty of other teams many more times and their fans all agree that he is a fucking cock (still a great rugby player, and probably the second greatest Irish player in m lifetime, to be fair to the man).
Keith Wood?
@booboo said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@junior said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ShitMcCaw said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Meh. You are better than us but all the bad mouthing of sexton by all blacks fans comes across as weak to me. He pumped you a good few times and that doesn’t sit will with you because he’s not meek and self effacing like you expect us to be. But guess what. Winning is what counts and we’ve gone from never beating you to pumping you five times in ten years. Would be a sad and soppy game if we turned everything into a saddo popularity contest. Maybe have a bit of grace and realise he’s one of the best you’ve come across.
Sorry, mate, but this is one of the worst takes on Sexton I've ever read. He is loathed by every group of rugby fans around the world, not just us AB fans who supposedly expect him to be meek. He's "pumped" plenty of other teams many more times and their fans all agree that he is a fucking cock (still a great rugby player, and probably the second greatest Irish player in m lifetime, to be fair to the man).
Keith Wood?
Nah the other chap, the one who could have died that time
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If any neutral is wondering why we are enjoying this victory so much, have a read of Tommy Bowes column
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67115828
tl;dr Ireland are the best, the Irish are the best, Irish alone lit up this world up, Sexton is the greatest. A wee mention about how they failed again and next time the weight will be larger.
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@His-Bobness said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@MajorRage Fair enough. You have a different view. I think the Irish started getting up the noses of a lot of people when they started playing well and winning. I suspect the two things are connected.
I've no doubt there's a considerable element of truth in that statement. I've witnessed it ad nauseum in sports when teams start winning regularly. And to be fair, a lot of people acknowledged how well Ireland played over the last few years and how well they've set up their systems.
Any team that starts winning tends to attract bandwagon supporters and national teams magnify that. The issue is the attracted occasional fan tends not to understand the subtleties, nor the culture. Hence you get an increasing percentage of mouthy piston wristed gibbons that irritate all concerned.
But for all that, I can only think of two Irish players that came in for any opprobrium. One that mouthed off to our captain and was near invisible in Ireland's biggest game, and one who is near universally derided for his character.
And I think Test rugby is in a better place with a stronger Ireland.
@antipodean said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@His-Bobness said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@MajorRage Fair enough. You have a different view. I think the Irish started getting up the noses of a lot of people when they started playing well and winning. I suspect the two things are connected.
I've no doubt there's a considerable element of truth in that statement. I've witnessed it ad nauseum in sports when teams start winning regularly. And to be fair, a lot of people acknowledged how well Ireland played over the last few years and how well they've set up their systems.
Any team that starts winning tends to attract bandwagon supporters and national teams magnify that. The issue is the attracted occasional fan tends not to understand the subtleties, nor the culture. Hence you get an increasing percentage of mouthy piston wristed gibbons that irritate all concerned.
But for all that, I can only think of two Irish players that came in for any opprobrium. One that mouthed off to our captain and was near invisible in Ireland's biggest game, and one who is near universally derided for his character.
And I think Test rugby is in a better place with a stronger Ireland.
Yeah this. It's dumb to say someone is the target of hate just because they're good. Nick White is universally despised here, not because he's awesome, but because he's a ridiculous looking, whinging knobjockey.
Me thinks that alot of this is projection. Perfect example, Ritchie McCaw. The guy who barely opens his mouth is transformed into gobby because he's so farking good.
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Some real pearl clutching in this thread.
It's not tiddlywinks.
Dish it out, get it back.
Entertain the masses, and pay for hookers and blow for the administrators.
Sports administration. Living the dream!!
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If any neutral is wondering why we are enjoying this victory so much, have a read of Tommy Bowes column
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/67115828
tl;dr Ireland are the best, the Irish are the best, Irish alone lit up this world up, Sexton is the greatest. A wee mention about how they failed again and next time the weight will be larger.
@MajorRage
So apparently they were shit at kicking, the breakdown, scrums, lineouts and in the air and were out-thought by NZ. But they were actually the better team who only lost because they didn't bring their A-game.
Also sounds a bit suspiciously like the BS spouted by some Kiwi commentators when Ireland won the series last year.
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I'm quite sick of this BS that Ireland deserved more. Phuck that. They deserved to be No.1 because they won all them games. They deserved the favourites tag because of recent form and they deserved a QF because they won their pool games but by phuck did Sexton deserve to win the RWC because he didn't win the right to another week. If we get dealt to by Argentina this week, no one will be saying we "deserved" more.
