RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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@NTA said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@NTA said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I have no problem with the outcome of either captain's card. Clear difference based on the framework and mitigation.
Can you elaborate further ? How was Canes harsher than Kolisis ? ( i missed part of the latters as I was getting my third helping of bacon and eggs )
Cane was upright, with reasonable force, direct contact. No mitigation.
Kolisi had contact through the body, lowered himself a little, and the head contact was almost incidental like a whiplash.
Fair enough. They looked about as harsh as eachothers to my ( untrained ) eye.
Nisbo thought so too.
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Nisbo thought so too
Yeah. Nisbo also thinks anyone with dark skin in a green jersey is Mapimpi, so...
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@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in [RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks]
Frizzell was carded for falling over
That's the one we were really dudded on, I think.
"A rugby collision", O'Keefe said - and that's basically what this was. They said as much when they didn't upgrade it. And handed the Boks the early momentum.
I didn’t know the law / focus area of not allowing people to fall on exposed knees etc - ITV had the Irish ref on call who immediately called it as an issue, Barnes then reffed it exactly as he said he should. He was actually concerned it would be red. The fact we didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t reffed correctly
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in [RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks]
Frizzell was carded for falling over
That's the one we were really dudded on, I think.
"A rugby collision", O'Keefe said - and that's basically what this was. They said as much when they didn't upgrade it. And handed the Boks the early momentum.
I didn’t know the law / focus area of not allowing people to fall on exposed knees etc - ITV had the Irish ref on call who immediately called it as an issue, Barnes then reffed it exactly as he said he should. He was actually concerned it would be red. The fact we didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t reffed correctly
Which law?
If he'd done it intentionally, it would have been red. Accidentally falling on someone is an accident.
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@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That final play sort of summed it up
DMac somehow breaks the field open. Savea (who was exhausted) wasn't clean, and nor was ALB.I may be alone on this but I would have played DMac a lot earlier.
@nostrildamus I would have swapped him for BB at the end. Richie was playing well and when he was running alongside Telea they were creating chances. Great footwork from both of them.
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I think losing by 20 after the red card would have been easier to take. But SAfrica (except for PSDT) played a stinker after the first 30. Should have, could have, would have. I hate being so invested in a fucking GAME of sports, it's not like my life is in any way changed because of this outcome...
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@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in [RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks]
Frizzell was carded for falling over
That's the one we were really dudded on, I think.
"A rugby collision", O'Keefe said - and that's basically what this was. They said as much when they didn't upgrade it. And handed the Boks the early momentum.
I didn’t know the law / focus area of not allowing people to fall on exposed knees etc - ITV had the Irish ref on call who immediately called it as an issue, Barnes then reffed it exactly as he said he should. He was actually concerned it would be red. The fact we didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t reffed correctly
Which law?
If he'd done it intentionally, it would have been red. Accidentally falling on someone is an accident.
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in [RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks]
Frizzell was carded for falling over
That's the one we were really dudded on, I think.
"A rugby collision", O'Keefe said - and that's basically what this was. They said as much when they didn't upgrade it. And handed the Boks the early momentum.
I didn’t know the law / focus area of not allowing people to fall on exposed knees etc - ITV had the Irish ref on call who immediately called it as an issue, Barnes then reffed it exactly as he said he should. He was actually concerned it would be red. The fact we didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t reffed correctly
Which law?
If he'd done it intentionally, it would have been red. Accidentally falling on someone is an accident.
It didn’t look 100% accidental to me, at very best it was very careless, I think they gave him the benefit of the doubt on review - ie found mitigation
Edit Also, accidentally hitting someone in the head isn’t ok, it can be, but isn’t always.
Anyway, I don’t know the law or how it’s been told to be reffed well enough so am only going on what the ref in the studio said
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@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Nisbo thought so too
Yeah. Nisbo also thinks anyone with dark skin in a green jersey is Mapimpi, so...
@NTA said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Nisbo thought so too
Yeah. Nisbo also thinks anyone with dark skin in a green jersey is Mapimpi, so...
It was confusing for the poor guy when he marked Telea it has to be said
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@nostrildamus I would have swapped him for BB at the end. Richie was playing well and when he was running alongside Telea they were creating chances. Great footwork from both of them.
@Paekakboyz said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus I would have swapped him for BB at the end. Richie was playing well and when he was running alongside Telea they were creating chances. Great footwork from both of them.
yes Richie played well and was brave.
I think the entire ABs should be thanked actually, 2 cards down, not their day, they came close and gave it their all.
So I came back to my earlier concerns about BB, cards, and Taylor (who was good enough for the call up but I'm not sure he's our #1 hooker) but really, they played as well as expected.
And as we all said, our kicking lets us down. -
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in [RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks]
Frizzell was carded for falling over
That's the one we were really dudded on, I think.
"A rugby collision", O'Keefe said - and that's basically what this was. They said as much when they didn't upgrade it. And handed the Boks the early momentum.
I didn’t know the law / focus area of not allowing people to fall on exposed knees etc - ITV had the Irish ref on call who immediately called it as an issue, Barnes then reffed it exactly as he said he should. He was actually concerned it would be red. The fact we didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t reffed correctly
Which law?
If he'd done it intentionally, it would have been red. Accidentally falling on someone is an accident.
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in [RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks]
Frizzell was carded for falling over
That's the one we were really dudded on, I think.
"A rugby collision", O'Keefe said - and that's basically what this was. They said as much when they didn't upgrade it. And handed the Boks the early momentum.
I didn’t know the law / focus area of not allowing people to fall on exposed knees etc - ITV had the Irish ref on call who immediately called it as an issue, Barnes then reffed it exactly as he said he should. He was actually concerned it would be red. The fact we didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t reffed correctly
Which law?
If he'd done it intentionally, it would have been red. Accidentally falling on someone is an accident.
20d, and intentionally is not mentioned in that law
Dangerous play in a ruck or maul.
A player must not charge into a ruck or maul. Charging includes any contact made without binding onto another player in the ruck or maul.
A player must not make contact with an opponent above the line of the shoulders.
A player must not intentionally collapse a ruck or a maul.
A player may lever the jackler out of the contest at the ruck but must not drop their weight onto them or target the lower limbs. -
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That final play sort of summed it up
DMac somehow breaks the field open. Savea (who was exhausted) wasn't clean, and nor was ALB.I may be alone on this but I would have played DMac a lot earlier.
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That final play sort of summed it up
DMac somehow breaks the field open. Savea (who was exhausted) wasn't clean, and nor was ALB.I may be alone on this but I would have played DMac a lot earlier.
And I would have taken BB off not Mo.
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@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in [RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks]
Frizzell was carded for falling over
That's the one we were really dudded on, I think.
"A rugby collision", O'Keefe said - and that's basically what this was. They said as much when they didn't upgrade it. And handed the Boks the early momentum.
I didn’t know the law / focus area of not allowing people to fall on exposed knees etc - ITV had the Irish ref on call who immediately called it as an issue, Barnes then reffed it exactly as he said he should. He was actually concerned it would be red. The fact we didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t reffed correctly
Which law?
If he'd done it intentionally, it would have been red. Accidentally falling on someone is an accident.
It didn’t look 100% accidental to me, at very best it was very careless, I think they gave him the benefit of the doubt on review - ie found mitigation
Edit Also, accidentally hitting someone in the head isn’t ok, it can be, but isn’t always.
Anyway, I don’t know the law or how it’s been told to be reffed well enough so am only going on what the ref in the studio said
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in [RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks]
Frizzell was carded for falling over
That's the one we were really dudded on, I think.
"A rugby collision", O'Keefe said - and that's basically what this was. They said as much when they didn't upgrade it. And handed the Boks the early momentum.
I didn’t know the law / focus area of not allowing people to fall on exposed knees etc - ITV had the Irish ref on call who immediately called it as an issue, Barnes then reffed it exactly as he said he should. He was actually concerned it would be red. The fact we didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t reffed correctly
Which law?
If he'd done it intentionally, it would have been red. Accidentally falling on someone is an accident.
It didn’t look 100% accidental to me, at very best it was very careless, I think they gave him the benefit of the doubt on review - ie found mitigation
Kitzhoff forearmed him in the face and he fell over didn't he? Watch it again, context is clearly optional for these officials
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@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Nisbo thought so too
Yeah. Nisbo also thinks anyone with dark skin in a green jersey is Mapimpi, so...
@NTA said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Nisbo thought so too
Yeah. Nisbo also thinks anyone with dark skin in a green jersey is Mapimpi, so...
@booboo Did you find the NZ commentary on Stan so you could listen to this old fart mispronounce and mislabel anyone with a darker shade of skin?
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@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in [RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks]
Frizzell was carded for falling over
That's the one we were really dudded on, I think.
"A rugby collision", O'Keefe said - and that's basically what this was. They said as much when they didn't upgrade it. And handed the Boks the early momentum.
I didn’t know the law / focus area of not allowing people to fall on exposed knees etc - ITV had the Irish ref on call who immediately called it as an issue, Barnes then reffed it exactly as he said he should. He was actually concerned it would be red. The fact we didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t reffed correctly
Which law?
If he'd done it intentionally, it would have been red. Accidentally falling on someone is an accident.
It didn’t look 100% accidental to me, at very best it was very careless, I think they gave him the benefit of the doubt on review - ie found mitigation
Kitzhoff forearmed him in the face and he fell over didn't he? Watch it again, context is clearly optional for these officials
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in [RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks]
Frizzell was carded for falling over
That's the one we were really dudded on, I think.
"A rugby collision", O'Keefe said - and that's basically what this was. They said as much when they didn't upgrade it. And handed the Boks the early momentum.
I didn’t know the law / focus area of not allowing people to fall on exposed knees etc - ITV had the Irish ref on call who immediately called it as an issue, Barnes then reffed it exactly as he said he should. He was actually concerned it would be red. The fact we didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t reffed correctly
Which law?
If he'd done it intentionally, it would have been red. Accidentally falling on someone is an accident.
It didn’t look 100% accidental to me, at very best it was very careless, I think they gave him the benefit of the doubt on review - ie found mitigation
Kitzhoff forearmed him in the face and he fell over didn't he?
Surely not, that would be an awful ref blunder, they' have to replay the game!
(Just joking). -
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That final play sort of summed it up
DMac somehow breaks the field open. Savea (who was exhausted) wasn't clean, and nor was ALB.I may be alone on this but I would have played DMac a lot earlier.
No, it was clear that the game was crying out for his skill set
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That final play sort of summed it up
DMac somehow breaks the field open. Savea (who was exhausted) wasn't clean, and nor was ALB.I may be alone on this but I would have played DMac a lot earlier.
No, it was clear that the game was crying out for his skill set
If I was to be super critical of the coaches, there was a window with 10 or 11 minutes to go where I thought DMac on for Barrett and the game might open up for us. In hindsight and with the 2nd Boks YC, it probably would’ve.
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@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in [RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks]
Frizzell was carded for falling over
That's the one we were really dudded on, I think.
"A rugby collision", O'Keefe said - and that's basically what this was. They said as much when they didn't upgrade it. And handed the Boks the early momentum.
I didn’t know the law / focus area of not allowing people to fall on exposed knees etc - ITV had the Irish ref on call who immediately called it as an issue, Barnes then reffed it exactly as he said he should. He was actually concerned it would be red. The fact we didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t reffed correctly
Which law?
If he'd done it intentionally, it would have been red. Accidentally falling on someone is an accident.
It didn’t look 100% accidental to me, at very best it was very careless, I think they gave him the benefit of the doubt on review - ie found mitigation
Kitzhoff forearmed him in the face and he fell over didn't he?
Surely not, that would be an awful ref blunder, they' have to replay the game!
(Just joking).@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Chris-B said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in [RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks]
Frizzell was carded for falling over
That's the one we were really dudded on, I think.
"A rugby collision", O'Keefe said - and that's basically what this was. They said as much when they didn't upgrade it. And handed the Boks the early momentum.
I didn’t know the law / focus area of not allowing people to fall on exposed knees etc - ITV had the Irish ref on call who immediately called it as an issue, Barnes then reffed it exactly as he said he should. He was actually concerned it would be red. The fact we didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t reffed correctly
Which law?
If he'd done it intentionally, it would have been red. Accidentally falling on someone is an accident.
It didn’t look 100% accidental to me, at very best it was very careless, I think they gave him the benefit of the doubt on review - ie found mitigation
Kitzhoff forearmed him in the face and he fell over didn't he?
Surely not, that would be an awful ref blunder, they' have to replay the game!
(Just joking).Jurgen Klopp in disguise 🥸
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@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That final play sort of summed it up
DMac somehow breaks the field open. Savea (who was exhausted) wasn't clean, and nor was ALB.I may be alone on this but I would have played DMac a lot earlier.
No, it was clear that the game was crying out for his skill set
If I was to be super critical of the coaches, there was a window with 10 or 11 minutes to go where I thought DMac on for Barrett and the game might open up for us. In hindsight and with the 2nd Boks YC, it probably would’ve.
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That final play sort of summed it up
DMac somehow breaks the field open. Savea (who was exhausted) wasn't clean, and nor was ALB.I may be alone on this but I would have played DMac a lot earlier.
No, it was clear that the game was crying out for his skill set
If I was to be super critical of the coaches, there was a window with 10 or 11 minutes to go where I thought DMac on for Barrett and the game might open up for us. In hindsight and with the 2nd Boks YC, it probably would’ve.
Beaudy was pretty awful, under the high ball, kicking, decisions etc. I would have put DMac back there at half time
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@Gunner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
he penalty which Barnes then said sorry, that wasn’t actually a penalty. That 3 points made a difference. The TMO gets involved and changes calls all the time, so why can’t a ref change his call in this instance, when he’s clearly fucked up.
Yeah this is the only reffing thing that really annoys me
@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Gunner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
he penalty which Barnes then said sorry, that wasn’t actually a penalty. That 3 points made a difference. The TMO gets involved and changes calls all the time, so why can’t a ref change his call in this instance, when he’s clearly fucked up.
Yeah this is the only reffing thing that really annoys me
Yeah agree, that's the winning of the game and it was a mistake (no malice he just fucked up like all humans do on occasion) - why can't Barnes just say "I fucked up, lets have a Bok scrum here as a restart"?
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ok time to flush the dunny, thank the old timers for their splendid service, and move on.
And congrats again to the Boks for winning a point in a row 3 times. Talk about dedication to the mission. -
@Tordah said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Basically up until the red card, I thought Springboks win it easy, they were by far the better team, because they tackled the ABs backwards, won the kicking duel. Ever since the RC, I thought ABs had the upper hand. Very exciting game, though the quality was a bit shit, I guess
Defence wins RWCs. The Boks take a 5 point advantage into every match simply due to the way they defend. No other team does the blitz D quite like them.
As sorry as I feel for Cane as I like him immensely as a person, how can you lose your discipline in a final like that. A yellow is bad enough and can cost you the final, a red is unacceptable.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That final play sort of summed it up
DMac somehow breaks the field open. Savea (who was exhausted) wasn't clean, and nor was ALB.I may be alone on this but I would have played DMac a lot earlier.
No, it was clear that the game was crying out for his skill set
If I was to be super critical of the coaches, there was a window with 10 or 11 minutes to go where I thought DMac on for Barrett and the game might open up for us. In hindsight and with the 2nd Boks YC, it probably would’ve.
Beaudy was pretty awful, under the high ball, kicking, decisions etc. I would have put DMac back there at half time
@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That final play sort of summed it up
DMac somehow breaks the field open. Savea (who was exhausted) wasn't clean, and nor was ALB.I may be alone on this but I would have played DMac a lot earlier.
No, it was clear that the game was crying out for his skill set
If I was to be super critical of the coaches, there was a window with 10 or 11 minutes to go where I thought DMac on for Barrett and the game might open up for us. In hindsight and with the 2nd Boks YC, it probably would’ve.
Beaudy was pretty awful, under the high ball, kicking, decisions etc. I would have put DMac back there at half time
He just went to pieces didn't he? We were lucky he didn't take us out of the running altogether
