RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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@GibbonRib said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Commiserations Kiwis. That was a great final, and a great effort from your team. Very unlucky in the end.
r.e. the cards - my view (from watching in real time in a very busy pub, so I might change my mind when I've watched it back) is that they were all correct, except possibly Frizell's which seemed harsh, didn't seem to me that he did much wrong.
Cane's red and Kolisi's yellow - I reckon they were correct decisions, but it does suck.
Two things:
We're all sick of talking about it, but the inconsistency is killing us. When the TMO intervenes, which offences are which colour, etc. There's no excuse for it.
And while I think Cane's was a RC offence and Kolisi's was a YC due to mitigation, it really highlights that while difference between a red and yellow offence can be very marginal, the differnce between the punishments is massive - especially for an early red. I wasn't a fan of the 20 minute rule when it was first suggested, but I've come around to thinking it would help.
Mitigation on Kolisi? What bit is mitigation? The bit where AS is upright and SK clocks him on the nose?
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@GibbonRib said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Commiserations Kiwis. That was a great final, and a great effort from your team. Very unlucky in the end.
r.e. the cards - my view (from watching in real time in a very busy pub, so I might change my mind when I've watched it back) is that they were all correct, except possibly Frizell's which seemed harsh, didn't seem to me that he did much wrong.
Cane's red and Kolisi's yellow - I reckon they were correct decisions, but it does suck.
Two things:
We're all sick of talking about it, but the inconsistency is killing us. When the TMO intervenes, which offences are which colour, etc. There's no excuse for it.
And while I think Cane's was a RC offence and Kolisi's was a YC due to mitigation, it really highlights that while difference between a red and yellow offence can be very marginal, the differnce between the punishments is massive - especially for an early red. I wasn't a fan of the 20 minute rule when it was first suggested, but I've come around to thinking it would help.
Mitigation on Kolisi? What bit is mitigation? The bit where AS is upright and SK clocks him on the nose?
Mitigation: Being a Hurricanes forward SK thought he was taller?
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Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Have another look at Kolisi - link below. Pay attention to Savea's head. He came charging in to a player dropping from a jump, and smokes him in the head.
There's as much mitigation as Cane in a dynamic tackle. For me, both yellow, or both red. Hell, week to week you'd like it reffed the same (I know, wishful thinking)
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@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
TMO missed this.
https://twitter.com/preciousjunhee/status/1718355031441752146
That is why I have a problem with where rugby has gotten to.
Barnes didn’t see Cane red card, but TMO did. But if TMO didn’t call that but brought things back for Etzebeth red ABs win.
Reductio ad absurdem, why not dispense with the game and just have a coin toss?
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
TMO missed this.
https://twitter.com/preciousjunhee/status/1718355031441752146
That is why I have a problem with where rugby has gotten to.
Barnes didn’t see Cane red card, but TMO did. But if TMO didn’t call that but brought things back for Etzebeth red ABs win.
Reductio ad absurdem, why not dispense with the game and just have a coin toss?
No wonder Barnes didn't see that-it was right in front of him.
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Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
This post is deleted! -
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Don't embarass yourself anymore than you already have
It's grainy but regardless of where his arms and shoulders are, SK hits Ardie head to face. No intent, not foul play, but that's a RC to me because of that impact
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@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Have another look at Kolisi - link below. Pay attention to Savea's head. He came charging in to a player dropping from a jump, and smokes him in the head.
There's as much mitigation as Cane in a dynamic tackle. For me, both yellow, or both red. Hell, week to week you'd like it reffed the same (I know, wishful thinking)
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Have another look at Kolisi - link below. Pay attention to Savea's head. He came charging in to a player dropping from a jump, and smokes him in the head.
There's as much mitigation as Cane in a dynamic tackle. For me, both yellow, or both red. Hell, week to week you'd like it reffed the same (I know, wishful thinking)
Both are cards, no doubt, but I know which tackle I would rather have been on the receiving end of. That said, I am in favour of a 20 min red.
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@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Have another look at Kolisi - link below. Pay attention to Savea's head. He came charging in to a player dropping from a jump, and smokes him in the head.
There's as much mitigation as Cane in a dynamic tackle. For me, both yellow, or both red. Hell, week to week you'd like it reffed the same (I know, wishful thinking)
Both are cards, no doubt, but I know which tackle I would rather have been on the receiving end of. That said, I am in favour of a 20 min red.
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Both are cards, no doubt, but I know which tackle I would rather have been on the receiving end of.
If only officials listened to your criteria it would be so much simpler.
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@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Don't embarass yourself anymore than you already have
It's grainy but regardless of where his arms and shoulders are, SK hits Ardie head to face. No intent, not foul play, but that's a RC to me because of that impact
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Don't embarass yourself anymore than you already have
It's grainy but regardless of where his arms and shoulders are, SK hits Ardie head to face. No intent, not foul play, but that's a RC to me because of that impact
I'm not embarrassed at all. I would rather cop a tackle to the body with simultaneous head to head contact, rather than a flying shoulder to the face. This is why the one was yellow and the other was red. If you cannot see that, you are blinded by your bias.
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@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Have another look at Kolisi - link below. Pay attention to Savea's head. He came charging in to a player dropping from a jump, and smokes him in the head.
There's as much mitigation as Cane in a dynamic tackle. For me, both yellow, or both red. Hell, week to week you'd like it reffed the same (I know, wishful thinking)
Both are cards, no doubt, but I know which tackle I would rather have been on the receiving end of. That said, I am in favour of a 20 min red.
@PN so genuine question - what's the mitigation you see?
A bunch of people argued Kolisi was YC only, and plenty of mitigation. When I pulled that and saw it again, I really struggled to reach that conclusion. Looked red as shit to me, with no real mitigation
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@PN so genuine question - what's the mitigation you see?
A bunch of people argued Kolisi was YC only, and plenty of mitigation. When I pulled that and saw it again, I really struggled to reach that conclusion. Looked red as shit to me, with no real mitigation
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN so genuine question - what's the mitigation you see?
A bunch of people argued Kolisi was YC only, and plenty of mitigation. When I pulled that and saw it again, I really struggled to reach that conclusion. Looked red as shit to me, with no real mitigation
As above.
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@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN so genuine question - what's the mitigation you see?
A bunch of people argued Kolisi was YC only, and plenty of mitigation. When I pulled that and saw it again, I really struggled to reach that conclusion. Looked red as shit to me, with no real mitigation
As above.
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN so genuine question - what's the mitigation you see?
A bunch of people argued Kolisi was YC only, and plenty of mitigation. When I pulled that and saw it again, I really struggled to reach that conclusion. Looked red as shit to me, with no real mitigation
As above.
so, the mitigation is your personal preference to be on the end of one over the other...? That's pretty comical pal.
They're both clear reds under the current laws. Kolisi comes flying into the line and recklessly makes significant head-on-head contact.
It's just a red mate, give it up.
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In week 1, England v Argentina, the same tackle as kolisi's was a red
Now, I didn't think that was a red, and I don't think this should have been either (nor canes)
But it's easy to see why kiwi fans might be just a little mystified
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Does someone have stats? I read a report Shannon made 1 tackle in 55 minutes, surely that is in error. If Akira played like that this Forum would have imploded. And I say this as someone who thought SF played himself back into the team this year.
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@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Don't embarass yourself anymore than you already have
It's grainy but regardless of where his arms and shoulders are, SK hits Ardie head to face. No intent, not foul play, but that's a RC to me because of that impact
I'm not embarrassed at all. I would rather cop a tackle to the body with simultaneous head to head contact, rather than a flying shoulder to the face. This is why the one was yellow and the other was red. If you cannot see that, you are blinded by your bias.
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Don't embarass yourself anymore than you already have
It's grainy but regardless of where his arms and shoulders are, SK hits Ardie head to face. No intent, not foul play, but that's a RC to me because of that impact
I'm not embarrassed at all. I would rather cop a tackle to the body with simultaneous head to head contact, rather than a flying shoulder to the face. This is why the one was yellow and the other was red. If you cannot see that, you are blinded by your bias.
You aren't talking to a bunch of scrubs on FB. I see similar levels of danger, in slightly different situations. Portia Woodman got hit in a head to head tackle in the women's final and the English girl got a straight red. Is there a difference because Ardie didn't fall down and Portia did? Head to head contact is exactly that either way.
And even after all that we had chances to win and I've already said we made to many errors and didn't kick our goals
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@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Don't embarass yourself anymore than you already have
It's grainy but regardless of where his arms and shoulders are, SK hits Ardie head to face. No intent, not foul play, but that's a RC to me because of that impact
I'm not embarrassed at all. I would rather cop a tackle to the body with simultaneous head to head contact, rather than a flying shoulder to the face. This is why the one was yellow and the other was red. If you cannot see that, you are blinded by your bias.
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Don't embarass yourself anymore than you already have
It's grainy but regardless of where his arms and shoulders are, SK hits Ardie head to face. No intent, not foul play, but that's a RC to me because of that impact
I'm not embarrassed at all. I would rather cop a tackle to the body with simultaneous head to head contact, rather than a flying shoulder to the face. This is why the one was yellow and the other was red. If you cannot see that, you are blinded by your bias.
That looks like an absorbing shoulder by Cane! Keep posting, it is amusing me!
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Does someone have stats? I read a report Shannon made 1 tackle in 55 minutes, surely that is in error. If Akira played like that this Forum would have imploded. And I say this as someone who thought SF played himself back into the team this year.
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Does someone have stats? I read a report Shannon made 1 tackle in 55 minutes, surely that is in error. If Akira played like that this Forum would have imploded. And I say this as someone who thought SF played himself back into the team this year.
I thought SF would have come back fizzing and ripped in. I barely noticed him. Disappointing from a guy we all identified as key to our chances. Too gunshy on a yellow?
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@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Does someone have stats? I read a report Shannon made 1 tackle in 55 minutes, surely that is in error. If Akira played like that this Forum would have imploded. And I say this as someone who thought SF played himself back into the team this year.
I thought SF would have come back fizzing and ripped in. I barely noticed him. Disappointing from a guy we all identified as key to our chances. Too gunshy on a yellow?
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Does someone have stats? I read a report Shannon made 1 tackle in 55 minutes, surely that is in error. If Akira played like that this Forum would have imploded. And I say this as someone who thought SF played himself back into the team this year.
I thought SF would have come back fizzing and ripped in. I barely noticed him. Disappointing from a guy we all identified as key to our chances. Too gunshy on a yellow?
My thought as well, perhaps he did well in the lineout but I only noticed the locks.
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Re Cane's red, it's 100% his fault but what caused it was a brainless decision a minute earlier not to take the 3. This is a RWC final and it's a wet day, you take the 3 whenever it presents itself. They decided to go for the lineout instead, then Taylor shits the bed with his throw and the red card occurs after that.
Such a poor decision. They took the 3 against Ireland every time they were awarded a kickable penalty and that helped them win that game, why they decided not to do the same in the final is beyond me.
