RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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@frugby yep, it's a game of inches and seconds, and the Boks made the inches and ate the seconds.
@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@frugby yep, it's a game of inches and seconds, and the Boks made the inches and ate the seconds.
Leave Fozzie out of this
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@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Does someone have stats? I read a report Shannon made 1 tackle in 55 minutes, surely that is in error. If Akira played like that this Forum would have imploded. And I say this as someone who thought SF played himself back into the team this year.
While I question the accuracy of tackles/missed tackles, the use a consistent method: https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstats?gameId=596201&league=164205
Frizell had 1 tackle and 1 missed tackle.
Taylor/Scottie/Ardie were the only players in double figures and Jordan/Cane made 8 each. The team made 93 out of 106 tackles of which 47 (50% of successful tackles) were made by the 5 players just mentioned.
@PecoTrain said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Does someone have stats? I read a report Shannon made 1 tackle in 55 minutes, surely that is in error. If Akira played like that this Forum would have imploded. And I say this as someone who thought SF played himself back into the team this year.
While I question the accuracy of tackles/missed tackles, the use a consistent method: https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstats?gameId=596201&league=164205
Frizell had 1 tackle and 1 missed tackle.
Taylor/Scottie/Ardie were the only players in double figures and Jordan/Cane made 8 each. The team made 93 out of 106 tackles of which 47 (50% of successful tackles) were made by the 5 players just mentioned.
The fact there were so few tackles speaks to the way the game was played... don't forget also, Frizell only played about 40 minutes (obviously you'd expect more than one tackle though).
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Ardie was a machine but there was absolutely no need to offload to ALB in the 79th minute, that was a risky pass. He had to hold on to the ball. A few more phases could have seen us snatch it. Those are the big moments where composure and patience is needed, and unfortunately he didn't show it then.
A game of what ifs unfortunately and also a game where they generally showed a lot of discipline, heart and composure after the red card, but there were just a few moments where they could have been better. So gutted.
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I’ve had a wee sleep so maybe I can achieve a bit of perspective.
Huge effort from the players to keep it so close and so nearly take it after going down to 14 men. I thought the maul defence and scrums were especially strong. Proud.
It’s a game of inches and it came down to goal kicking, poor handling and not thinking clearly under pressure. All that points to less than perfect preparation. I can’t help thinking if Razor had been appointed AB coach, last night would have finished with him breakdancing on the wet Parisian turf. At least we have a chance now to rebuild under such an inspirational, meticulous and visionary coach.
The game is not managing video technology well and has made it baffling. It’s not great entertainment to watch four guys argue among themselves and then make a decision they struggle to defend. The game needs to speed up again before 2027.
Bottom line, South Africa and their defence were immense. The start was always going to be crucial and they negated us there. They were ferocious throughout and made it really hard for the ABs to settle into any rhythm. I don’t think there is anyone it means more to. Congratulations, South Africa!
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I’m blaming razor for this loss. The crusaders won the final for the last seven years, so none of the fluffy bunny chiefs knew how to win the close games.
Foster can finally piss off , Sam Cane has played his last ever All blacks game. Bring on 2024 and can’t wait to have more crusaders players involved in the ABs. -
I’m blaming razor for this loss. The crusaders won the final for the last seven years, so none of the fluffy bunny chiefs knew how to win the close games.
Foster can finally piss off , Sam Cane has played his last ever All blacks game. Bring on 2024 and can’t wait to have more crusaders players involved in the ABs.@chchfanatic said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I’m blaming razor for this loss. The crusaders won the final for the last seven years, so none of the fluffy bunny chiefs knew how to win the close games.
Foster can finally piss off , Sam Cane has played his last ever All blacks game. Bring on 2024 and can’t wait to have more crusaders players involved in the ABs.@Tim do you have two accounts on here ?
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@chchfanatic said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I’m blaming razor for this loss. The crusaders won the final for the last seven years, so none of the fluffy bunny chiefs knew how to win the close games.
Foster can finally piss off , Sam Cane has played his last ever All blacks game. Bring on 2024 and can’t wait to have more crusaders players involved in the ABs.@Tim do you have two accounts on here ?
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@chchfanatic said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I’m blaming razor for this loss. The crusaders won the final for the last seven years, so none of the fluffy bunny chiefs knew how to win the close games.
Foster can finally piss off , Sam Cane has played his last ever All blacks game. Bring on 2024 and can’t wait to have more crusaders players involved in the ABs.@Tim do you have two accounts on here ?
When would Tim want more Crusaders in the team?
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@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@chchfanatic said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I’m blaming razor for this loss. The crusaders won the final for the last seven years, so none of the fluffy bunny chiefs knew how to win the close games.
Foster can finally piss off , Sam Cane has played his last ever All blacks game. Bring on 2024 and can’t wait to have more crusaders players involved in the ABs.@Tim do you have two accounts on here ?
When would Tim want more Crusaders in the team?
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@chchfanatic said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I’m blaming razor for this loss. The crusaders won the final for the last seven years, so none of the fluffy bunny chiefs knew how to win the close games.
Foster can finally piss off , Sam Cane has played his last ever All blacks game. Bring on 2024 and can’t wait to have more crusaders players involved in the ABs.@Tim do you have two accounts on here ?
When would Tim want more Crusaders in the team?
He would if it meant less Sam Cane. Worst All Black ever so they say.
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@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@chchfanatic said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I’m blaming razor for this loss. The crusaders won the final for the last seven years, so none of the fluffy bunny chiefs knew how to win the close games.
Foster can finally piss off , Sam Cane has played his last ever All blacks game. Bring on 2024 and can’t wait to have more crusaders players involved in the ABs.@Tim do you have two accounts on here ?
When would Tim want more Crusaders in the team?
He would if it meant less Sam Cane. Worst All Black ever so they say.
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
When would Tim want more Crusaders in the team?
He would if it meant less Sam Cane. Worst All Black ever so they say.
Oh he isn't a fan of Sam Cane? Apart from 10 posts every AB game where he mentions it, I hadn't noticed.
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@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
When would Tim want more Crusaders in the team?
He would if it meant less Sam Cane. Worst All Black ever so they say.
Oh he isn't a fan of Sam Cane? Apart from 10 posts every AB game where he mentions it, I hadn't noticed.
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
When would Tim want more Crusaders in the team?
He would if it meant less Sam Cane. Worst All Black ever so they say.
Oh he isn't a fan of Sam Cane? Apart from 10 posts every AB game where he mentions it, I hadn't noticed.
There an award for that later
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@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Credit to SA for the win, but I think we can say we lost that with a lack of composure at crucial times...several losses of our own lineout in thier 22, poor handling, pushing passes and not putting the ball out in that final 10 at every chance with thier struggling lineout.
We could have won it, but didn't.
Totally, not the ref, not SA, we lost ourselves. Mentally weren't sharp enough, I wonder who Gilbert's replacement is, that could be key going forward
@Machpants a good coach like Razor.
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The morning after starts with a moerse head ache.
PSdT was massive. Although Fourie struggled with his line out throwing, to be 37 years old, nearly starting as nr2 and even captain the Springboks in a WC final, played like a foks terrier. For the All Blacks I thought Retallick was huge.
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The morning after starts with a moerse head ache.
PSdT was massive. Although Fourie struggled with his line out throwing, to be 37 years old, nearly starting as nr2 and even captain the Springboks in a WC final, played like a foks terrier. For the All Blacks I thought Retallick was huge.
@OomPB PSdT was friggen immense! What an engine.
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@OomPB PSdT was friggen immense! What an engine.
@Old-Samurai-Jack up there as one of the best individual performances for a number of years.
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Rugby has issues as a sport that entertains. It’s losing that battle and has real risk issues being a collision sport. Critical to this is the administration being dominated by NH. The NH mindset is based on a static (important) forwards power game whereas SH teams use the ball more. As the game has become more defensively oriented we see endless box kicks and lineout malls dominate. It’s not that they are not part of the game, it’s just about balance. If we want entertainment then the balance should be moved to reward teams that carry, pass, and most importantly speed up the game. You would think that France and Ireland would now want to see a change in administration to that end?
On the collision side, the final demonstrated the problem. Any head contact is an issue. If the tackler is aiming at chest then the head is always in play because of changes in height and lateral movements. The issue then becomes that at speed any card decision is subjective. Not sure how you could every coach for that. As someone said before until they lower the height of all tackles the law and its application is a joke.
Which brings us back to the entertainment factor. Playing with 14 men ruins the spectacle. How the NH power mongers don’t see that I don’t know? The solutions on table are 20m red card or referral system. I favour a combination - referral unless malicious, which should be a high threshold that sees 20 min red.
As for suggestions that Cane’s shoulder tackle was more impactful than head to head, just pure nonsense. Anyone that’s played rugby knows that straight head to head contact is just as bad if not a lot worse.
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The morning after starts with a moerse head ache.
PSdT was massive. Although Fourie struggled with his line out throwing, to be 37 years old, nearly starting as nr2 and even captain the Springboks in a WC final, played like a foks terrier. For the All Blacks I thought Retallick was huge.
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Question: Why can’t we revert to the system where TMOs get to intervene only in cases of foul play or when asked to do so by the referee? Imagine a court system where the judge on the bench’s every adjudication is second-guessed by a shadowy back room panel pouring over case law going back to the 17th century. Think about the injustice of this system. It’s QCs at dawn during three-hour judiciary hearings in post-game proceedings, but a back room bunker decides within minutes in the middle of a game where a yellow card should be upgraded to a red. In both the NRL and AFL, these decisions are left till a judiciary hearing and the full quota of players is kept on the field - a sensible decision for safety reasons if nothing else. World Rugby has this wrong. Red cards should be limited to obvious intentionally foul play. It is clear that so many of these cards are being given for either accidental incidents or poor technique or just a sudden change in position. I know the legal eagles at WR are paranoid about potential class actions from players suffering premature dementia because of repeated head-knocks, but this system is clearly not working. It defies common sense and it puts hugely capable and fair referees like Wayne Barnes in a dreadful position.
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Rugby has issues as a sport that entertains. It’s losing that battle and has real risk issues being a collision sport. Critical to this is the administration being dominated by NH. The NH mindset is based on a static (important) forwards power game whereas SH teams use the ball more. As the game has become more defensively oriented we see endless box kicks and lineout malls dominate. It’s not that they are not part of the game, it’s just about balance. If we want entertainment then the balance should be moved to reward teams that carry, pass, and most importantly speed up the game. You would think that France and Ireland would now want to see a change in administration to that end?
On the collision side, the final demonstrated the problem. Any head contact is an issue. If the tackler is aiming at chest then the head is always in play because of changes in height and lateral movements. The issue then becomes that at speed any card decision is subjective. Not sure how you could every coach for that. As someone said before until they lower the height of all tackles the law and its application is a joke.
Which brings us back to the entertainment factor. Playing with 14 men ruins the spectacle. How the NH power mongers don’t see that I don’t know? The solutions on table are 20m red card or referral system. I favour a combination - referral unless malicious, which should be a high threshold that sees 20 min red.
As for suggestions that Cane’s shoulder tackle was more impactful than head to head, just pure nonsense. Anyone that’s played rugby knows that straight head to head contact is just as bad if not a lot worse.
@kev Your suggestions make absolute sense, but I fear we are talking to a brick wall. It’s hard not to suspect, as you say, that the bureaucrats making these decisions are doing so with a completely different conception of what rugby should be. Clearly, there are no marketing people involved. Their sheer pigheadedness and refusal to see reason suggest a circling of the wagons by certain of the game’s powerbrokers defending vested interests. It’s corruption or incompetence, or perhaps a combination of them both. Private equity needs to get involved and roll some of these people.
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@kev Your suggestions make absolute sense, but I fear we are talking to a brick wall. It’s hard not to suspect, as you say, that the bureaucrats making these decisions are doing so with a completely different conception of what rugby should be. Clearly, there are no marketing people involved. Their sheer pigheadedness and refusal to see reason suggest a circling of the wagons by certain of the game’s powerbrokers defending vested interests. It’s corruption or incompetence, or perhaps a combination of them both. Private equity needs to get involved and roll some of these people.
@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@kev Your suggestions make absolute sense, but I fear we are talking to a brick wall. It’s hard not to suspect, as you say, that the bureaucrats making these decisions are doing so with a completely different conception of what rugby should be. Clearly, there are no marketing people involved. Their sheer pigheadedness and refusal to see reason suggest a circling of the wagons by certain of the game’s powerbrokers defending vested interests. It’s corruption or incompetence, or perhaps a combination of them both. Private equity needs to get involved and roll some of these people.
So true. There was an opportunity to roll Bill Beaumont but the NH voted as a block. They see the game differently.
