RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Nepia said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
The only thing I'd really call Barnes out on was that he would call play it earlier for Smith than for Faf.
None of that was on Barnes. Barnes was fine, it was the random TMO coming in that was the difference. Barnes shouldn't be copping it
In the first half, Barnes let a lot go in terms of high shots and some of the challenges for high balls where Kolbe in particular was very late/didn't time his jump and just hit the Mo'unga. For the second half, Barnes just commentated for the TMO although in his defence, at least he was more accurate and more interesting than the ITV crowd..
For the disallowed try, he had called it on the field as a knock back onto Ardies leg and said play on. For the subsequent penalty and following two penalties, Barnes and the assistants seemed to just be guessing and hoping the TMO would help them out.
When Kwagga Smith came on, a number of balls started flying out of rucks on the Bok side after he had told Smith to get his hands off the ball and the jackler supporting their weight became optional. I think the only penalty after the 56th minute was Kolbe's sending off for either side.
Barnes retreated from the game and let others handle it. Similarly, the assistant refs didn't provide a lot of assistance which is probably why the TMO became so key to many decisions. And that indicates to me that either Barnes team weren't up to the task of a final or that the TMO has taken too much control away from the referee making it difficult to manage a game. Or both.
@PecoTrain There's no way a human as a ref in that environment can get all the calls right. A lot of people forget that fact.
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@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Trying to get ref excuses after a loss leave a bad taste and is depressing. Barnes had a very good game. It will never be 100% but he did well.
Christ you're such a hypocrite. Switch sides and you'd be screaming blue murder. Zero self awareness.
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@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I think the Kolisi one should have been red
If Canes was red (as I felt it was), Kolisi should also have been (it was worse). Either have a rule to protect the head. Or drop them and see rugby destroyed by concussion issues.
I lost interest in the game at this point
Due to an incompetent (or inconsistent) TMO decision. And a shit decision by WR on the 20-minute red card rule
@Winger said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I think the Kolisi one should have been red
If Canes was red (as I felt it was), Kolisi should also have been (it was worse). Either have a rule to protect the head. Or drop them and see rugby destroyed by concussion issues.
I lost interest in the game at this point
Due to an incompetent (or inconsistent) TMO decision. And a shit decision by WR on the 20-minute red card rule
Why is no one talking about the Etzebeth incident in the France QF? Why was that only a yellow card, but Cane's today was red? Had the rules been applied equally, Etzebeth would not have been playing in that match today.
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@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Trying to get ref excuses after a loss leave a bad taste and is depressing. Barnes had a very good game. It will never be 100% but he did well.
Christ you're such a hypocrite. Switch sides and you'd be screaming blue murder. Zero self awareness.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Trying to get ref excuses after a loss leave a bad taste and is depressing. Barnes had a very good game. It will never be 100% but he did well.
Christ you're such a hypocrite. Switch sides and you'd be screaming blue murder. Zero self awareness.
Saffa fans, media and coaches are the worst complainers when it comes to reffing. That isn't opinion, that is fact
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The often anti-AB BBC comment section is staunchly pro-AB:
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SA deserved to win.
Barnes was fine, not perfect, but fine.
Has been a fantastic tournament but it peaked in the quarter finals
Thank the lord we have deGroot , Lomax and JB going forward. Roigard halfback.
Has Razor got the notebook out.
Bring it on.
I vote for a roof 2027 Rugby World Cup final -
@Billy-Tell
Have you? Serious question.
Because I doubt the viewing figures were fantastic past the QFs. Also doubt any neutral non-rugby fan will be excited about another game like that.@mofitzy_ said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell
Have you? Serious question.
Because I doubt the viewing figures were fantastic past the QFs. Also doubt any neutral non-rugby fan will be excited about another game like that.I don’t. But then I’m not trying to argue that rugby is losing fans in droves. It’s not really a sport that attracts the casual viewer at the best of times as the laws are quite arcane. And those who follow rugby will continue to do so. As noted, the NH doesn’t mind these 10-man rugby style games and they never take kindly to Australia and NZ trying to make it more of a spectacle.
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@mofitzy_ said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell
Have you? Serious question.
Because I doubt the viewing figures were fantastic past the QFs. Also doubt any neutral non-rugby fan will be excited about another game like that.I don’t. But then I’m not trying to argue that rugby is losing fans in droves. It’s not really a sport that attracts the casual viewer at the best of times as the laws are quite arcane. And those who follow rugby will continue to do so. As noted, the NH doesn’t mind these 10-man rugby style games and they never take kindly to Australia and NZ trying to make it more of a spectacle.
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mofitzy_ said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell
Have you? Serious question.
Because I doubt the viewing figures were fantastic past the QFs. Also doubt any neutral non-rugby fan will be excited about another game like that.I don’t. But then I’m not trying to argue that rugby is losing fans in droves. It’s not really a sport that attracts the casual viewer at the best of times as the laws are quite arcane. And those who follow rugby will continue to do so. As noted, the NH doesn’t mind these 10-man rugby style games and they never take kindly to Australia and NZ trying to make it more of a spectacle.
Rugby is ripe for a Kerry Packer style disruption
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@PecoTrain There's no way a human as a ref in that environment can get all the calls right. A lot of people forget that fact.
@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PecoTrain There's no way a human as a ref in that environment can get all the calls right. A lot of people forget that fact.
@BerniesCorner I accept that and I also accept that to win you have to try and score enough points to take the ref out of the equation.
Doing that is easy to say but very difficult to do when you have had players sent off. Scoring points when the ref and his assistants sit back and let the TMO make the calls for ~50% of the game isn't missing a few calls.
Barnes and the TMO shit the bed with the Frizell YC after 3 minutes - pulling an obscure rule out of the rulebook seemingly because a South African player got injured. The reverse camera angle appeared to show Frizell getting out of the way of Kitshoffs forearm and there was forearm on head contact from Kitshoff albeit it slight and probably only worthy of a penalty given Frizells avoidence.
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@Billy-Tell Sure, the RWC brings in big TV revenues. But most of the English clubs are financially insolvent. Both NZ and SA rugby are running significant losses. As for Australian Rugby, the last rites are close to being read.
The RWC is a separate commercial entity which extracts every last dollar from its many stakeholders and which jealously protects its privileged status. If I were a private equity manager, I’d look at disruption.
@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell Sure, the RWC brings in big TV revenues. But most of the English clubs are financially insolvent. Both NZ and SA rugby are running significant losses. As for Australian Rugby, the last rites are close to being read.
The RWC is a separate commercial entity which extracts every last dollar from its many stakeholders and which jealously protects its privileged status. If I were a private equity manager, I’d look at disruption.
This is not due to lack of fan base. It’s due to wages being too high. Unfortunately uk and France allowed clubs to take over who then get into bidding wars for players. If you pay piutau £1’000’000 season that’s too much. NZ then has to up its wages to compete with the UK and so on.
Rugby is like any sport. There are excellent games and rubbish ones.
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@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PecoTrain There's no way a human as a ref in that environment can get all the calls right. A lot of people forget that fact.
@BerniesCorner I accept that and I also accept that to win you have to try and score enough points to take the ref out of the equation.
Doing that is easy to say but very difficult to do when you have had players sent off. Scoring points when the ref and his assistants sit back and let the TMO make the calls for ~50% of the game isn't missing a few calls.
Barnes and the TMO shit the bed with the Frizell YC after 3 minutes - pulling an obscure rule out of the rulebook seemingly because a South African player got injured. The reverse camera angle appeared to show Frizell getting out of the way of Kitshoffs forearm and there was forearm on head contact from Kitshoff albeit it slight and probably only worthy of a penalty given Frizells avoidence.
@PecoTrain said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PecoTrain There's no way a human as a ref in that environment can get all the calls right. A lot of people forget that fact.
@BerniesCorner I accept that and I also accept that to win you have to try and score enough points to take the ref out of the equation.
Doing that is easy to say but very difficult to do when you have had players sent off. Scoring points when the ref and his assistants sit back and let the TMO make the calls for ~50% of the game isn't missing a few calls.
Barnes and the TMO shit the bed with the Frizell YC after 3 minutes - pulling an obscure rule out of the rulebook seemingly because a South African player got injured. The reverse camera angle appeared to show Frizell getting out of the way of Kitshoffs forearm and there was forearm on head contact from Kitshoff albeit it slight and probably only worthy of a penalty given Frizells avoidence.
I wouldn't have penalised Kitzhoff or Frizell. It was a rugby accident. Shannon wasn't even looking at Bongo, his attention was on Kitzhoff
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There's f all difference between SA, ABs, Ireland and France.
England are determined but limited.
Australia has got 4 years to sort their shite out. I look forward to that. I miss them -
@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell Sure, the RWC brings in big TV revenues. But most of the English clubs are financially insolvent. Both NZ and SA rugby are running significant losses. As for Australian Rugby, the last rites are close to being read.
The RWC is a separate commercial entity which extracts every last dollar from its many stakeholders and which jealously protects its privileged status. If I were a private equity manager, I’d look at disruption.
This is not due to lack of fan base. It’s due to wages being too high. Unfortunately uk and France allowed clubs to take over who then get into bidding wars for players. If you pay piutau £1’000’000 season that’s too much. NZ then has to up its wages to compete with the UK and so on.
Rugby is like any sport. There are excellent games and rubbish ones.
@Billy-Tell Agree. But whether it’s lack of bums on seats or greedy management discounting imagined future profits by paying excessively for players today, it adds up to the same commercial problem - diminishing margins and a cadre of club owners squeezing the lemon too hard for short-term profit. I still think the game is buggered. I predict the new global competition will be a failure, simply because WR is doing what it always does - fattening the calf at the centre and starving everybody else to keep its cadre of pigs at the trough in business and first class airfares. I stand by what I said. Rugby Union is ripe for a disruptor to simplify the rules, reward endeavour and creativity and market the game more broadly. As it stands, they’re playing at being a mass market sport with a mass market budget in a narrowcast universe.
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@Billy-Tell Agree. But whether it’s lack of bums on seats or greedy management discounting imagined future profits by paying excessively for players today, it adds up to the same commercial problem - diminishing margins and a cadre of club owners squeezing the lemon too hard for short-term profit. I still think the game is buggered. I predict the new global competition will be a failure, simply because WR is doing what it always does - fattening the calf at the centre and starving everybody else to keep its cadre of pigs at the trough in business and first class airfares. I stand by what I said. Rugby Union is ripe for a disruptor to simplify the rules, reward endeavour and creativity and market the game more broadly. As it stands, they’re playing at being a mass market sport with a mass market budget in a narrowcast universe.
@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell Agree. But whether it’s lack of bums on seats or greedy management discounting imagined future profits by paying excessively for players today, it adds up to the same commercial problem - diminishing margins and a cadre of club owners squeezing the lemon too hard for short-term profit. I still think the game is buggered. I predict the new global competition will be a failure, simply because WR is doing what it always does - fattening the calf at the centre and starving everybody else to keep its cadre of pigs at the trough in business and first class airfares. I stand by what I said. Rugby Union is ripe for a disruptor to simplify the rules, reward endeavour and creativity and market the game more broadly. As it stands, they’re playing at being a mass market sport with a mass market budget in a narrowcast universe.
Where's Kerry Packer when you need him
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@PecoTrain said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PecoTrain There's no way a human as a ref in that environment can get all the calls right. A lot of people forget that fact.
@BerniesCorner I accept that and I also accept that to win you have to try and score enough points to take the ref out of the equation.
Doing that is easy to say but very difficult to do when you have had players sent off. Scoring points when the ref and his assistants sit back and let the TMO make the calls for ~50% of the game isn't missing a few calls.
Barnes and the TMO shit the bed with the Frizell YC after 3 minutes - pulling an obscure rule out of the rulebook seemingly because a South African player got injured. The reverse camera angle appeared to show Frizell getting out of the way of Kitshoffs forearm and there was forearm on head contact from Kitshoff albeit it slight and probably only worthy of a penalty given Frizells avoidence.
I wouldn't have penalised Kitzhoff or Frizell. It was a rugby accident. Shannon wasn't even looking at Bongo, his attention was on Kitzhoff
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@Billy-Tell Agree. But whether it’s lack of bums on seats or greedy management discounting imagined future profits by paying excessively for players today, it adds up to the same commercial problem - diminishing margins and a cadre of club owners squeezing the lemon too hard for short-term profit. I still think the game is buggered. I predict the new global competition will be a failure, simply because WR is doing what it always does - fattening the calf at the centre and starving everybody else to keep its cadre of pigs at the trough in business and first class airfares. I stand by what I said. Rugby Union is ripe for a disruptor to simplify the rules, reward endeavour and creativity and market the game more broadly. As it stands, they’re playing at being a mass market sport with a mass market budget in a narrowcast universe.
@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell Agree. But whether it’s lack of bums on seats or greedy management discounting imagined future profits by paying excessively for players today, it adds up to the same commercial problem - diminishing margins and a cadre of club owners squeezing the lemon too hard for short-term profit. I still think the game is buggered. I predict the new global competition will be a failure, simply because WR is doing what it always does - fattening the calf at the centre and starving everybody else to keep its cadre of pigs at the trough in business and first class airfares. I stand by what I said. Rugby Union is ripe for a disruptor to simplify the rules, reward endeavour and creativity and market the game more broadly. As it stands, they’re playing at being a mass market sport with a mass market budget in a narrowcast universe.
If rugby was more popular in Australia, which it will never be, then a SH breakaway including Japan, Argentina, the Pacific etc would be possible. But NZ can’t go it alone. I thought Portugal showed how rugby should be played tbh. They were my highlight from this RWC, aside the surprise of NZ actually being ok.
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@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Boks are pretty mediocre team. Certainly not in top two in world, maybe not in top three.
Result is like a sporting quiz oddity.
I’d like Foz to come out and say that he thought we were a notch ahead of them tonight, but sport is an odd thing and sometime the lesser team ends up with its name on the trophy.
Fucking well played ABs. Bloody proud of you.
I’m not sure how you can say this about a team that has won three incredibly tight games in a row
I was here and their shortcoming were very apparent. If the French game had been reffed properly they would have lost it, and they were hugely assisted tonight by official rulings and still only finished a point ahead.
So, for me, just a sporting aberration.
That’s what makes the game so beguiling.
…..and if the ABs had kicked better, Cane had tackled better and whatever else they might have won it.
This post comes across ever so slightly like sour grapes you’d expect on FB
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Boks are pretty mediocre team. Certainly not in top two in world, maybe not in top three.
Result is like a sporting quiz oddity.
I’d like Foz to come out and say that he thought we were a notch ahead of them tonight, but sport is an odd thing and sometime the lesser team ends up with its name on the trophy.
Fucking well played ABs. Bloody proud of you.
I’m not sure how you can say this about a team that has won three incredibly tight games in a row
I was here and their shortcoming were very apparent. If the French game had been reffed properly they would have lost it, and they were hugely assisted tonight by official rulings and still only finished a point ahead.
So, for me, just a sporting aberration.
That’s what makes the game so beguiling.
…..and if the ABs had kicked better, Cane had tackled better and whatever else they might have won it.
This post comes across ever so slightly like sour grapes you’d expect on FB
Fair call. I’m not disputing the result, and nor that Boks are tremendous team.
But the fact is that arbitrary TMO interventions were the difference between an impotent win and a serious loss for them.
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academic question but if SF moves out of his way to avoid a forearm and collapses on a bok (not seeing him) is he still liable for a yellow card? As
a. not targeting limbs (eyes elsewhere) and
b. mitigating circumstancesalthough Barnes did not seem to consider a. anyway.
Oh well, just an academic question. Personally I thought SF might not have entered the gate/moving offside and the clearing was a bit risky position-wise anyway.
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@canefan Actually you are right. Avoidance. Had a big impact on the game. No one in the pub noticed.
Did the TMO see it at the time? No one will ever know.@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan Actually you are right. Avoidance. Had a big impact on the game. No one in the pub noticed.
Did the TMO see it at the time? No one will ever know.He was too busy trying to see foul play when there probably was none. Contrast the injury to Tupaea, that Aussie grub looked for his leg then pounced
