RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@kev It also ensures that only one style of play dominates in World Cups. The Springboks individually have fantastic skills and are capable of so much more than that. But Erasmus, justifiably cynical about how rugby is run, has developed techniques to squeeze out games in knock-out competitions by playing very little actual rugby. And that’s because he knows the game’s rule-makers and power centres have engineered it to produce an attritional battle that caters to the Northern Hemisphere mindset. Watch a game with a non-rusted on and see how they react to the increasingly stop-start and judicial-dominated nature of the event. Genuine curiosity at first gives way to quiet bemusement, then dismissal. If someone like me now dreads watching international rugby at this level (waiting for the inevitable voice of God from up in the box directing the referee to another card) I’m pretty sure that more footloose people looking to spend their (increasingly limited) discretionary income are going to tune out completely and look somewhere else for entertainment. Because that’s what this game is at the end of the day - entertainment. And if it doesn’t entertain beyond you few diehards that like watching scrum penalties, kicks for the corner and rolling mauls all day, it’s going to die a slow painful death.
Have you got viewing figure numbers to back up your view? I’d say viewing figures are up. I’m not disputing that 10-man rugby seems to be the key to RWC success, but tickets were very hard to get and I imagine lots of people watched the games. I don’t think enough credit given to SAs defence yesterday, especially PSDT. NZ tried to play but came unstuck.
@Billy-Tell Sure, the RWC brings in big TV revenues. But most of the English clubs are financially insolvent. Both NZ and SA rugby are running significant losses. As for Australian Rugby, the last rites are close to being read.
The RWC is a separate commercial entity which extracts every last dollar from its many stakeholders and which jealously protects its privileged status. If I were a private equity manager, I’d look at disruption.
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@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
TMO missed this.
https://twitter.com/preciousjunhee/status/1718355031441752146
That is why I have a problem with where rugby has gotten to.
Barnes didn’t see Cane red card, but TMO did. But if TMO didn’t call that but brought things back for Etzebeth red ABs win.
Reductio ad absurdem, why not dispense with the game and just have a coin toss?
A clip of it. How the TMO can ignore this is beyond me.
@akan004 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
TMO missed this.
https://twitter.com/preciousjunhee/status/1718355031441752146
That is why I have a problem with where rugby has gotten to.
Barnes didn’t see Cane red card, but TMO did. But if TMO didn’t call that but brought things back for Etzebeth red ABs win.
Reductio ad absurdem, why not dispense with the game and just have a coin toss?
A clip of it. How the TMO can ignore this is beyond me.
Good to see the video as opposed to the still image - as it turns out, he can ignore it because EE’s arm was against his body when he made contact then he pushed the player away - that is totally legal at the moment. I wondered if that might be the case, live I thought it was a leading forearm, having seen that grainy video I’ve changed my mind.
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@Billy-Tell
Have you? Serious question.
Because I doubt the viewing figures were fantastic past the QFs. Also doubt any neutral non-rugby fan will be excited about another game like that.@mofitzy_ said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell
Have you? Serious question.
Because I doubt the viewing figures were fantastic past the QFs. Also doubt any neutral non-rugby fan will be excited about another game like that.Some relatives of mine in Germany watched the game and were rather nonplussed. Not unusual for non-rugby people, but hardly a great advertisement for the game. Apparently the German commentators said NZ deserved to win. Danke.
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Trying to get ref excuses after a loss leave a bad taste and is depressing. Barnes had a very good game. It will never be 100% but he did well.
@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Trying to get ref excuses after a loss leave a bad taste and is depressing. Barnes had a very good game. It will never be 100% but he did well.
Christ you're such a hypocrite. Switch sides and you'd be screaming blue murder. Zero self awareness.
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@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Nepia said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
The only thing I'd really call Barnes out on was that he would call play it earlier for Smith than for Faf.
None of that was on Barnes. Barnes was fine, it was the random TMO coming in that was the difference. Barnes shouldn't be copping it
In the first half, Barnes let a lot go in terms of high shots and some of the challenges for high balls where Kolbe in particular was very late/didn't time his jump and just hit the Mo'unga. For the second half, Barnes just commentated for the TMO although in his defence, at least he was more accurate and more interesting than the ITV crowd..
For the disallowed try, he had called it on the field as a knock back onto Ardies leg and said play on. For the subsequent penalty and following two penalties, Barnes and the assistants seemed to just be guessing and hoping the TMO would help them out.
When Kwagga Smith came on, a number of balls started flying out of rucks on the Bok side after he had told Smith to get his hands off the ball and the jackler supporting their weight became optional. I think the only penalty after the 56th minute was Kolbe's sending off for either side.
Barnes retreated from the game and let others handle it. Similarly, the assistant refs didn't provide a lot of assistance which is probably why the TMO became so key to many decisions. And that indicates to me that either Barnes team weren't up to the task of a final or that the TMO has taken too much control away from the referee making it difficult to manage a game. Or both.
@PecoTrain There's no way a human as a ref in that environment can get all the calls right. A lot of people forget that fact.
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@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Trying to get ref excuses after a loss leave a bad taste and is depressing. Barnes had a very good game. It will never be 100% but he did well.
Christ you're such a hypocrite. Switch sides and you'd be screaming blue murder. Zero self awareness.
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@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I think the Kolisi one should have been red
If Canes was red (as I felt it was), Kolisi should also have been (it was worse). Either have a rule to protect the head. Or drop them and see rugby destroyed by concussion issues.
I lost interest in the game at this point
Due to an incompetent (or inconsistent) TMO decision. And a shit decision by WR on the 20-minute red card rule
@Winger said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Dodge said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I think the Kolisi one should have been red
If Canes was red (as I felt it was), Kolisi should also have been (it was worse). Either have a rule to protect the head. Or drop them and see rugby destroyed by concussion issues.
I lost interest in the game at this point
Due to an incompetent (or inconsistent) TMO decision. And a shit decision by WR on the 20-minute red card rule
Why is no one talking about the Etzebeth incident in the France QF? Why was that only a yellow card, but Cane's today was red? Had the rules been applied equally, Etzebeth would not have been playing in that match today.
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@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Trying to get ref excuses after a loss leave a bad taste and is depressing. Barnes had a very good game. It will never be 100% but he did well.
Christ you're such a hypocrite. Switch sides and you'd be screaming blue murder. Zero self awareness.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@OomPB said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Trying to get ref excuses after a loss leave a bad taste and is depressing. Barnes had a very good game. It will never be 100% but he did well.
Christ you're such a hypocrite. Switch sides and you'd be screaming blue murder. Zero self awareness.
Saffa fans, media and coaches are the worst complainers when it comes to reffing. That isn't opinion, that is fact
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The often anti-AB BBC comment section is staunchly pro-AB:
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SA deserved to win.
Barnes was fine, not perfect, but fine.
Has been a fantastic tournament but it peaked in the quarter finals
Thank the lord we have deGroot , Lomax and JB going forward. Roigard halfback.
Has Razor got the notebook out.
Bring it on.
I vote for a roof 2027 Rugby World Cup final -
@Billy-Tell
Have you? Serious question.
Because I doubt the viewing figures were fantastic past the QFs. Also doubt any neutral non-rugby fan will be excited about another game like that.@mofitzy_ said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell
Have you? Serious question.
Because I doubt the viewing figures were fantastic past the QFs. Also doubt any neutral non-rugby fan will be excited about another game like that.I don’t. But then I’m not trying to argue that rugby is losing fans in droves. It’s not really a sport that attracts the casual viewer at the best of times as the laws are quite arcane. And those who follow rugby will continue to do so. As noted, the NH doesn’t mind these 10-man rugby style games and they never take kindly to Australia and NZ trying to make it more of a spectacle.
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@mofitzy_ said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell
Have you? Serious question.
Because I doubt the viewing figures were fantastic past the QFs. Also doubt any neutral non-rugby fan will be excited about another game like that.I don’t. But then I’m not trying to argue that rugby is losing fans in droves. It’s not really a sport that attracts the casual viewer at the best of times as the laws are quite arcane. And those who follow rugby will continue to do so. As noted, the NH doesn’t mind these 10-man rugby style games and they never take kindly to Australia and NZ trying to make it more of a spectacle.
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mofitzy_ said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell
Have you? Serious question.
Because I doubt the viewing figures were fantastic past the QFs. Also doubt any neutral non-rugby fan will be excited about another game like that.I don’t. But then I’m not trying to argue that rugby is losing fans in droves. It’s not really a sport that attracts the casual viewer at the best of times as the laws are quite arcane. And those who follow rugby will continue to do so. As noted, the NH doesn’t mind these 10-man rugby style games and they never take kindly to Australia and NZ trying to make it more of a spectacle.
Rugby is ripe for a Kerry Packer style disruption
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@PecoTrain There's no way a human as a ref in that environment can get all the calls right. A lot of people forget that fact.
@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PecoTrain There's no way a human as a ref in that environment can get all the calls right. A lot of people forget that fact.
@BerniesCorner I accept that and I also accept that to win you have to try and score enough points to take the ref out of the equation.
Doing that is easy to say but very difficult to do when you have had players sent off. Scoring points when the ref and his assistants sit back and let the TMO make the calls for ~50% of the game isn't missing a few calls.
Barnes and the TMO shit the bed with the Frizell YC after 3 minutes - pulling an obscure rule out of the rulebook seemingly because a South African player got injured. The reverse camera angle appeared to show Frizell getting out of the way of Kitshoffs forearm and there was forearm on head contact from Kitshoff albeit it slight and probably only worthy of a penalty given Frizells avoidence.
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@Billy-Tell Sure, the RWC brings in big TV revenues. But most of the English clubs are financially insolvent. Both NZ and SA rugby are running significant losses. As for Australian Rugby, the last rites are close to being read.
The RWC is a separate commercial entity which extracts every last dollar from its many stakeholders and which jealously protects its privileged status. If I were a private equity manager, I’d look at disruption.
@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell Sure, the RWC brings in big TV revenues. But most of the English clubs are financially insolvent. Both NZ and SA rugby are running significant losses. As for Australian Rugby, the last rites are close to being read.
The RWC is a separate commercial entity which extracts every last dollar from its many stakeholders and which jealously protects its privileged status. If I were a private equity manager, I’d look at disruption.
This is not due to lack of fan base. It’s due to wages being too high. Unfortunately uk and France allowed clubs to take over who then get into bidding wars for players. If you pay piutau £1’000’000 season that’s too much. NZ then has to up its wages to compete with the UK and so on.
Rugby is like any sport. There are excellent games and rubbish ones.
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@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PecoTrain There's no way a human as a ref in that environment can get all the calls right. A lot of people forget that fact.
@BerniesCorner I accept that and I also accept that to win you have to try and score enough points to take the ref out of the equation.
Doing that is easy to say but very difficult to do when you have had players sent off. Scoring points when the ref and his assistants sit back and let the TMO make the calls for ~50% of the game isn't missing a few calls.
Barnes and the TMO shit the bed with the Frizell YC after 3 minutes - pulling an obscure rule out of the rulebook seemingly because a South African player got injured. The reverse camera angle appeared to show Frizell getting out of the way of Kitshoffs forearm and there was forearm on head contact from Kitshoff albeit it slight and probably only worthy of a penalty given Frizells avoidence.
@PecoTrain said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@BerniesCorner said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PecoTrain There's no way a human as a ref in that environment can get all the calls right. A lot of people forget that fact.
@BerniesCorner I accept that and I also accept that to win you have to try and score enough points to take the ref out of the equation.
Doing that is easy to say but very difficult to do when you have had players sent off. Scoring points when the ref and his assistants sit back and let the TMO make the calls for ~50% of the game isn't missing a few calls.
Barnes and the TMO shit the bed with the Frizell YC after 3 minutes - pulling an obscure rule out of the rulebook seemingly because a South African player got injured. The reverse camera angle appeared to show Frizell getting out of the way of Kitshoffs forearm and there was forearm on head contact from Kitshoff albeit it slight and probably only worthy of a penalty given Frizells avoidence.
I wouldn't have penalised Kitzhoff or Frizell. It was a rugby accident. Shannon wasn't even looking at Bongo, his attention was on Kitzhoff
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There's f all difference between SA, ABs, Ireland and France.
England are determined but limited.
Australia has got 4 years to sort their shite out. I look forward to that. I miss them -
@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell Sure, the RWC brings in big TV revenues. But most of the English clubs are financially insolvent. Both NZ and SA rugby are running significant losses. As for Australian Rugby, the last rites are close to being read.
The RWC is a separate commercial entity which extracts every last dollar from its many stakeholders and which jealously protects its privileged status. If I were a private equity manager, I’d look at disruption.
This is not due to lack of fan base. It’s due to wages being too high. Unfortunately uk and France allowed clubs to take over who then get into bidding wars for players. If you pay piutau £1’000’000 season that’s too much. NZ then has to up its wages to compete with the UK and so on.
Rugby is like any sport. There are excellent games and rubbish ones.
@Billy-Tell Agree. But whether it’s lack of bums on seats or greedy management discounting imagined future profits by paying excessively for players today, it adds up to the same commercial problem - diminishing margins and a cadre of club owners squeezing the lemon too hard for short-term profit. I still think the game is buggered. I predict the new global competition will be a failure, simply because WR is doing what it always does - fattening the calf at the centre and starving everybody else to keep its cadre of pigs at the trough in business and first class airfares. I stand by what I said. Rugby Union is ripe for a disruptor to simplify the rules, reward endeavour and creativity and market the game more broadly. As it stands, they’re playing at being a mass market sport with a mass market budget in a narrowcast universe.
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@Billy-Tell Agree. But whether it’s lack of bums on seats or greedy management discounting imagined future profits by paying excessively for players today, it adds up to the same commercial problem - diminishing margins and a cadre of club owners squeezing the lemon too hard for short-term profit. I still think the game is buggered. I predict the new global competition will be a failure, simply because WR is doing what it always does - fattening the calf at the centre and starving everybody else to keep its cadre of pigs at the trough in business and first class airfares. I stand by what I said. Rugby Union is ripe for a disruptor to simplify the rules, reward endeavour and creativity and market the game more broadly. As it stands, they’re playing at being a mass market sport with a mass market budget in a narrowcast universe.
@His-Bobness said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Billy-Tell Agree. But whether it’s lack of bums on seats or greedy management discounting imagined future profits by paying excessively for players today, it adds up to the same commercial problem - diminishing margins and a cadre of club owners squeezing the lemon too hard for short-term profit. I still think the game is buggered. I predict the new global competition will be a failure, simply because WR is doing what it always does - fattening the calf at the centre and starving everybody else to keep its cadre of pigs at the trough in business and first class airfares. I stand by what I said. Rugby Union is ripe for a disruptor to simplify the rules, reward endeavour and creativity and market the game more broadly. As it stands, they’re playing at being a mass market sport with a mass market budget in a narrowcast universe.
Where's Kerry Packer when you need him
