RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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That was the WC final, the absolute pinnacle of our sport, with the two form teams of the comp going hammer and tong playing completely different styles. It was all set up for an absolute classic.
And what did we get? Constant stoppages for the TMO to pour over footage of a super dynamic sport, not looking for genuine foul play, but for minor indiscretions and errors of judgement by players absolutely throwing themselves around for 80 minutes.
And the result was a stop start game that included so many cards, including a red that basically sealed the fate of the game for one side, that it is impossible to tell what would have even happened if both sides were allowed to keep 15 men on the pitch.
That was a potentially incredible game of rugby between two supremely talented sides that was never allowed to get going. If that's the pinnacle, then rugby is badly broken as a sport.
@No-Quarter said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That was the WC final, the absolute pinnacle of our sport, with the two form teams of the comp going hammer and tong playing completely different styles. It was all set up for an absolute classic.
And what did we get? Constant stoppages for the TMO to pour over footage of a super dynamic sport, not looking for genuine foul play, but for minor indiscretions and errors of judgement by players absolutely throwing themselves around for 80 minutes.
And the result was a stop start game that included so many cards, including a red that basically sealed the fate of the game for one side, that it is impossible to tell what would have even happened if both sides were allowed to keep 15 men on the pitch.
That was a potentially incredible game of rugby between two supremely talented sides that was never allowed to get going. If that's the pinnacle, then rugby is badly broken as a sport.
This. Sadly after being in love with the game my entire life I am dropping her. Been disillusioned for a while but as mentioned the RWC final should showcase the game. Sadly it showed exactly what rugby has become. The only redeeming feature was that it was a "close" contest, unfortunately 15 v 14 isn't a "fair" contest.
The AB's are still my team, and well done to the Boks, but my entertainment hours will be spent where the fans are respected and the result is up to the players. Strangely enough I might still watch some 13 man rugby but they call it league (cards are a rarity there at least).
Au revoir ma cherie seems appropriate.
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@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@bluedex said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
All lovely guys on here I see lol
12:53 am
Monday, 30 October 2023 (GMT)
Time in Dublin, County Dublin, IrelandFew drinks, get on an NZ board and get stuck in ... happy days.
Very friendly group alright
@bluedex said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@bluedex said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
All lovely guys on here I see lol
12:53 am
Monday, 30 October 2023 (GMT)
Time in Dublin, County Dublin, IrelandFew drinks, get on an NZ board and get stuck in ... happy days.
Very friendly group alright
Bro, you reaped what you sowed.
If you want to be surrounded by psycophants join the swarm on Planet Rugby. You'll fit in perfectly with this base level of trolling.
Although I think even they have reached the conclusion that RI had walked on and turned back due to what your Johnny the ref abuser said.
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@bluedex said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@bluedex said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
All lovely guys on here I see lol
12:53 am
Monday, 30 October 2023 (GMT)
Time in Dublin, County Dublin, IrelandFew drinks, get on an NZ board and get stuck in ... happy days.
Very friendly group alright
Bro, you reaped what you sowed.
If you want to be surrounded by psycophants join the swarm on Planet Rugby. You'll fit in perfectly with this base level of trolling.
Although I think even they have reached the conclusion that RI had walked on and turned back due to what your Johnny the ref abuser said.
@Nepia too right
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@No-Quarter said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That was the WC final, the absolute pinnacle of our sport, with the two form teams of the comp going hammer and tong playing completely different styles. It was all set up for an absolute classic.
And what did we get? Constant stoppages for the TMO to pour over footage of a super dynamic sport, not looking for genuine foul play, but for minor indiscretions and errors of judgement by players absolutely throwing themselves around for 80 minutes.
And the result was a stop start game that included so many cards, including a red that basically sealed the fate of the game for one side, that it is impossible to tell what would have even happened if both sides were allowed to keep 15 men on the pitch.
That was a potentially incredible game of rugby between two supremely talented sides that was never allowed to get going. If that's the pinnacle, then rugby is badly broken as a sport.
This. Sadly after being in love with the game my entire life I am dropping her. Been disillusioned for a while but as mentioned the RWC final should showcase the game. Sadly it showed exactly what rugby has become. The only redeeming feature was that it was a "close" contest, unfortunately 15 v 14 isn't a "fair" contest.
The AB's are still my team, and well done to the Boks, but my entertainment hours will be spent where the fans are respected and the result is up to the players. Strangely enough I might still watch some 13 man rugby but they call it league (cards are a rarity there at least).
Au revoir ma cherie seems appropriate.
@Snowy said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@No-Quarter said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That was the WC final, the absolute pinnacle of our sport, with the two form teams of the comp going hammer and tong playing completely different styles. It was all set up for an absolute classic.
And what did we get? Constant stoppages for the TMO to pour over footage of a super dynamic sport, not looking for genuine foul play, but for minor indiscretions and errors of judgement by players absolutely throwing themselves around for 80 minutes.
And the result was a stop start game that included so many cards, including a red that basically sealed the fate of the game for one side, that it is impossible to tell what would have even happened if both sides were allowed to keep 15 men on the pitch.
That was a potentially incredible game of rugby between two supremely talented sides that was never allowed to get going. If that's the pinnacle, then rugby is badly broken as a sport.
This. Sadly after being in love with the game my entire life I am dropping her. Been disillusioned for a while but as mentioned the RWC final should showcase the game. Sadly it showed exactly what rugby has become. The only redeeming feature was that it was a "close" contest, unfortunately 15 v 14 isn't a "fair" contest.
The AB's are still my team, and well done to the Boks, but my entertainment hours will be spent where the fans are respected and the result is up to the players. Strangely enough I might still watch some 13 man rugby but they call it league (cards are a rarity there at least).
Au revoir ma cherie seems appropriate.
feeling very similar myself, i think getting involved with a club and seeing rugby that is closer to what i grew up loving is the only thing keeping me engaged
looking forward to seeing what razor can do next year though
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The Bok's win 3 one point games in a row to win the RWC.
There's winning it the hard way, then there's winning it like the 2023 Springboks.
@Windows97 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
There's winning it the hard way, then there'swinningitlike the 2023 Springboks.FIFY
Winning is winning...while we'd all love to play attractive running rugby and win, reality is this is rarely the result.
As many alluded to, the best rugby of this RWC was in some of the pool matches and then peaked in the 1/4 finals.
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Another thing - since when is the RWC final expected to be a showpiece of our game?
In my lifetime:
95 - Dour penalty fest
99 - Fairly dour penalty fest
03 - Great Lote Tuqiri try, then a dour penalty fest
07 - Dour penalty fest
11 - Dour penalty fest
15 - Actually great game, easily the best final and closer than scoreline suggested
19 - Not that dour but also not that close
23 - Pretty dour penalty festImportant to note that one man's 'dour penalty fest' is another man's grinding physical contest so take it all with a grain of salt if you must.
But if your expectation was the final would be a classic showpiece, well I think it's a bit on you if you are disappointed.
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@Windows97 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
There's winning it the hard way, then there'swinningitlike the 2023 Springboks.FIFY
Winning is winning...while we'd all love to play attractive running rugby and win, reality is this is rarely the result.
As many alluded to, the best rugby of this RWC was in some of the pool matches and then peaked in the 1/4 finals.
@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Windows97 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
There's winning it the hard way, then there'swinningitlike the 2023 Springboks.FIFY
Winning is winning...while we'd all love to play attractive running rugby and win, reality is this is rarely the result.
As many alluded to, the best rugby of this RWC was in some of the pool matches and then peaked in the 1/4 finals.
I meant it more as a compliment to their starch and ability to not panic under pressure.
And aside from all the shoulda, coulda, woulda talk (which would be equal for all 3 games) SA found a way to win in all of them.
I admire them for it, albeit from a state of dejection.
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@No-Quarter said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That was the WC final, the absolute pinnacle of our sport, with the two form teams of the comp going hammer and tong playing completely different styles. It was all set up for an absolute classic.
And what did we get? Constant stoppages for the TMO to pour over footage of a super dynamic sport, not looking for genuine foul play, but for minor indiscretions and errors of judgement by players absolutely throwing themselves around for 80 minutes.
And the result was a stop start game that included so many cards, including a red that basically sealed the fate of the game for one side, that it is impossible to tell what would have even happened if both sides were allowed to keep 15 men on the pitch.
That was a potentially incredible game of rugby between two supremely talented sides that was never allowed to get going. If that's the pinnacle, then rugby is badly broken as a sport.
I made the comment to some friends with similar sentiments about how good it could have been without the stop-start TMO bullshit. In 2011 or 2015. In better times.....
My view is that I would much rather live with the odd ref fůck up on the field (that's sport and has always been part of it) rather than the arbitrary TMO bullshit.
@Rancid-Schnitzel I am ok with reviewing scoring phases as the game has stopped and you get the decision right. I like that cause it gives the ref the get of jail card free. If they are clear on the number of phases. To balance that against penalties etc then giving captains one or 2 appeals per game would allow for evenness.
But having the TMO interfere with live rugby to go back for cards is the big problem. If we started with the mindset that they are referrals anyway and can be cited after the match then they just go away.
The NRL have done this to great success.
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Another thing - since when is the RWC final expected to be a showpiece of our game?
In my lifetime:
95 - Dour penalty fest
99 - Fairly dour penalty fest
03 - Great Lote Tuqiri try, then a dour penalty fest
07 - Dour penalty fest
11 - Dour penalty fest
15 - Actually great game, easily the best final and closer than scoreline suggested
19 - Not that dour but also not that close
23 - Pretty dour penalty festImportant to note that one man's 'dour penalty fest' is another man's grinding physical contest so take it all with a grain of salt if you must.
But if your expectation was the final would be a classic showpiece, well I think it's a bit on you if you are disappointed.
@barbarian why wouldnt it be expected to be the showpeice of the game, it is right now the pinnacle in rugby, therefore, in theory it will be shown to the widest audience possible, why wouldnt you want it to be a showpeice and not descend into a whistle-or-card fest?
So I think there is nothing wrong with wanting it to be a spectacle, but at the end of the day, winning is the goal, however you win, you win.
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@barbarian why wouldnt it be expected to be the showpeice of the game, it is right now the pinnacle in rugby, therefore, in theory it will be shown to the widest audience possible, why wouldnt you want it to be a showpeice and not descend into a whistle-or-card fest?
So I think there is nothing wrong with wanting it to be a spectacle, but at the end of the day, winning is the goal, however you win, you win.
@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian why wouldnt it be expected to be the showpeice of the game, it is right now the pinnacle in rugby, therefore, in theory it will be shown to the widest audience possible, why wouldnt you want it to be a showpeice and not descend into a whistle-or-card fest?
So I think there is nothing wrong with wanting it to be a spectacle, but at the end of the day, winning is the goal, however you win, you win.
The problem is that so much of the rugby below it is dire as well. The RWC is just a reflection of that.
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@barbarian why wouldnt it be expected to be the showpeice of the game, it is right now the pinnacle in rugby, therefore, in theory it will be shown to the widest audience possible, why wouldnt you want it to be a showpeice and not descend into a whistle-or-card fest?
So I think there is nothing wrong with wanting it to be a spectacle, but at the end of the day, winning is the goal, however you win, you win.
@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian why wouldnt it be expected to be the showpeice of the game, it is right now the pinnacle in rugby, therefore, in theory it will be shown to the widest audience possible, why wouldnt you want it to be a showpeice and not descend into a whistle-or-card fest?
So I think there is nothing wrong with wanting it to be a spectacle, but at the end of the day, winning is the goal, however you win, you win.
It's not just the officiating though. There's too much at stake and teams resort to defensive rugby. There's a reason that only rarely do teams pass 16 points.
And I reject the notion it was a whistle-fest. The last 30 minutes was gripping and Barnes barely blew his whistle at all. No scrum penalties, no 50/50 ruck penalties.
So in an ideal world I'd love it to be razzle dazzle rugby, but history tells us that it's almost never the case.
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@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I hate myself.
And he's right about the two phases.
Easily googlable. I sssume the 2022 version on the WR website is correct.
You'd think the best TMO in the world would know his job.
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@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I hate myself.
And he's right about the two phases.
Easily googlable. I sssume the 2022 version on the WR website is correct.
You'd think the best TMO in the world would know his job.
@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
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@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
It's the Kumar Dharmasena moment of this world cup.
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@taniwharugby said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@barbarian why wouldnt it be expected to be the showpeice of the game, it is right now the pinnacle in rugby, therefore, in theory it will be shown to the widest audience possible, why wouldnt you want it to be a showpeice and not descend into a whistle-or-card fest?
So I think there is nothing wrong with wanting it to be a spectacle, but at the end of the day, winning is the goal, however you win, you win.
It's not just the officiating though. There's too much at stake and teams resort to defensive rugby. There's a reason that only rarely do teams pass 16 points.
And I reject the notion it was a whistle-fest. The last 30 minutes was gripping and Barnes barely blew his whistle at all. No scrum penalties, no 50/50 ruck penalties.
So in an ideal world I'd love it to be razzle dazzle rugby, but history tells us that it's almost never the case.
@barbarian I didn't say it did, I was talking generally, not specific to yesterday.
I think we are not too far apart in thinking, we want it, but will rarely be, nothing wrong with wanting it to be great
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@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
Maybe so. But it WAS a knock on.
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
Maybe so. But it WAS a knock on.
@Billy-Tell said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@booboo its seems to basic...too basic to stuff up so just went back to look....the lineout is the fifth phase before the try....its just painful
Maybe so. But it WAS a knock on.
i dont think anyone is arguing that, were just talking about the use of TMO and things like this seems quite clearly stated...and yet not followed
personally i think the knock on was a direct result of the penalty action and so should be considered part of that and so play on under advantage...but thats not the rules
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There has been a discipline and or cards issue for some time.
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
There has been a discipline and or cards issue for some time.
I'd say there's a clear subconscious bias. IMO a capable TMO wouldn't have said the threshold was made for a bloke that has someone turn into him, and not for someone that runs 10 metres into the face of someone else.
I also take umbrage at the discretionary use of "absorbing".
