All Blacks 2024.. locked
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Razor should be afforded time to establish himself.
Why should he be any different?
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch. Along with the fact that, despite the loss in the final, most fans would probably agree that the Fozz era did some damage to the ABs and will require some rebuilding. Fresh starts take time. But of course that won't mean he should be free to embark on a flood of losses on the back of abject play
i think Razor should be given some breathing room...but he's not starting from stracth, there are still lots of the same players who will be putting their hands up...and he should have an idea of what they can and cant do
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch.
Nonsense. He isn't dealing with the disappearance of the Busby Babes ffs. He wanted the job, he's been watching players one presumes, he's got another six months to identify players who can best play his gameplan.
I expect immediate results.
Or just how long should we give coaching jesus?
For me, a lot will come down to how we play. Wins will be nice. Close losses tolerated for a short time. Beat downs not so much
this^^
seeing a change in how we're trying to play like we saw against Ireland that i would like to see...and hopefully that will result in wins early
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Razor should be afforded time to establish himself.
Why should he be any different?
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch. Along with the fact that, despite the loss in the final, most fans would probably agree that the Fozz era did some damage to the ABs and will require some rebuilding. Fresh starts take time. But of course that won't mean he should be free to embark on a flood of losses on the back of abject play
i think Razor should be given some breathing room...but he's not starting from stracth, there are still lots of the same players who will be putting their hands up...and he should have an idea of what they can and cant do
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch.
Nonsense. He isn't dealing with the disappearance of the Busby Babes ffs. He wanted the job, he's been watching players one presumes, he's got another six months to identify players who can best play his gameplan.
I expect immediate results.
Or just how long should we give coaching jesus?
For me, a lot will come down to how we play. Wins will be nice. Close losses tolerated for a short time. Beat downs not so much
this^^
seeing a change in how we're trying to play like we saw against Ireland that i would like to see...and hopefully that will result in wins early
The blueprint is definitely there. And Razor's Saders teams generally did all the basics well so I'm hopeful he can start well
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch.
Nonsense. He isn't dealing with the disappearance of the Busby Babes ffs. He wanted the job, he's been watching players one presumes, he's got another six months to identify players who can best play his gameplan.
I expect immediate results.
Or just how long should we give coaching jesus?
For me, a lot will come down to how we play. Wins will be nice. Close losses tolerated for a short time. Beat downs not so much
On that we pretty much agree. I can tolerate losing if we play well and are beaten by a better team. That suggests it shouldn't happen often.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch.
Nonsense. He isn't dealing with the disappearance of the Busby Babes ffs. He wanted the job, he's been watching players one presumes, he's got another six months to identify players who can best play his gameplan.
I expect immediate results.
Or just how long should we give coaching jesus?
For me, a lot will come down to how we play. Wins will be nice. Close losses tolerated for a short time. Beat downs not so much
On that we pretty much agree. I can tolerate losing if we play well and are beaten by a better team. That suggests it shouldn't happen often.
The list is probably Saffas and Frogs
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I'm not convinced that Papali'i is the answer at 7 either though. If I was Razor I wouldn't make any decisions until Super.
My preference would be to move Ardie back to 7 because we know what he can offer. I would then start a big physical player like Finau at 6, and then a skillful/sizeable player at 8, quite a few players coming through that fit the bill. I would then have Blackadder on the bench to cover all three back row postions.
@Canes4life Ardie Savea hasn't played at 7 for about 4 years, and playing at 7 would take away his attacking game as he'd be required to do a lot more clean out work and playing as a first tackler, which doesn't suit his game. He's turned into a world class 8, a more rounded position.
He's not playing 7 again, I don't even know how it is still a talking point going into 2024.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch.
Nonsense. He isn't dealing with the disappearance of the Busby Babes ffs. He wanted the job, he's been watching players one presumes, he's got another six months to identify players who can best play his gameplan.
I expect immediate results.
Or just how long should we give coaching jesus?
@antipodean he still has Ryan too, and I think in the RWC it showed our pack was the equal of the vaunted Irish and Bok packs, so there is some good continuity there.
Sure we lose a few players, but I would put money on Razor having had his eye on some players for a couple of seasons, so there will be a couple of surprise selections too.
Obviously there has been concern expressed about McDonald and the way the Blues have gone, but assistant coach will be different for him.
As above, how we play will have a huge bearing on the drums that beat, so while there will be a little latitude, if we are bumbling about as we did for many games under Foster, then the beat of the drums wont be a good one.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Razor should be afforded time to establish himself.
Why should he be any different?
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch. Along with the fact that, despite the loss in the final, most fans would probably agree that the Fozz era did some damage to the ABs and will require some rebuilding. Fresh starts take time. But of course that won't mean he should be free to embark on a flood of losses on the back of abject play
i think Razor should be given some breathing room...but he's not starting from stracth, there are still lots of the same players who will be putting their hands up...and he should have an idea of what they can and cant do
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch.
Nonsense. He isn't dealing with the disappearance of the Busby Babes ffs. He wanted the job, he's been watching players one presumes, he's got another six months to identify players who can best play his gameplan.
I expect immediate results.
Or just how long should we give coaching jesus?
For me, a lot will come down to how we play. Wins will be nice. Close losses tolerated for a short time. Beat downs not so much
this^^
seeing a change in how we're trying to play like we saw against Ireland that i would like to see...and hopefully that will result in wins early
The blueprint is definitely there. And Razor's Saders teams generally did all the basics well so I'm hopeful he can start well
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Razor should be afforded time to establish himself.
Why should he be any different?
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch. Along with the fact that, despite the loss in the final, most fans would probably agree that the Fozz era did some damage to the ABs and will require some rebuilding. Fresh starts take time. But of course that won't mean he should be free to embark on a flood of losses on the back of abject play
i think Razor should be given some breathing room...but he's not starting from stracth, there are still lots of the same players who will be putting their hands up...and he should have an idea of what they can and cant do
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch.
Nonsense. He isn't dealing with the disappearance of the Busby Babes ffs. He wanted the job, he's been watching players one presumes, he's got another six months to identify players who can best play his gameplan.
I expect immediate results.
Or just how long should we give coaching jesus?
For me, a lot will come down to how we play. Wins will be nice. Close losses tolerated for a short time. Beat downs not so much
this^^
seeing a change in how we're trying to play like we saw against Ireland that i would like to see...and hopefully that will result in wins early
The blueprint is definitely there. And Razor's Saders teams generally did all the basics well so I'm hopeful he can start well
One issue being that the saders were reffed like they were Wales up against the Fijian invaders (which often harmed the AB's at the start of the season), so it'll be interesting to see how he goes when that situation is flipped.
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Next year is looking tough. Arguably one of the hardest ever schedules if this article is accurate.
Playing SA twice away and finishing off the year with games against England, France and Ireland is a big ask. Good luck, Razor.
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2024:
Next year is looking tough. Arguably one of the hardest ever schedules if this article is accurate.
Playing SA twice away and finishing off the year with games against England, France and Ireland is a big ask. Good luck, Razor.
It’s a non-RWC year, the Boks will be a cake walk
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
Current-version Charles Ngatai runs like the senior residents of the cardiology ward at Middlemore hospital. Ardie does alright there at 12, and has played with Ethan who has the engine and shoulders for 13 if not the passing (or catching, or distribution).
There’s always someone who takes the silliness too far
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
Current-version Charles Ngatai runs like the senior residents of the cardiology ward at Middlemore hospital. Ardie does alright there at 12, and has played with Ethan who has the engine and shoulders for 13 if not the passing (or catching, or distribution).
There’s always someone who takes the silliness too far
EB in the midfield is silly, Ardie has already volunteered in the midfield and done quite well.
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Next year is looking tough. Arguably one of the hardest ever schedules if this article is accurate.
Playing SA twice away and finishing off the year with games against England, France and Ireland is a big ask. Good luck, Razor.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Razor should be afforded time to establish himself.
Why should he be any different?
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch. Along with the fact that, despite the loss in the final, most fans would probably agree that the Fozz era did some damage to the ABs and will require some rebuilding. Fresh starts take time. But of course that won't mean he should be free to embark on a flood of losses on the back of abject play
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Razor should be afforded time to establish himself.
Why should he be any different?
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch. Along with the fact that, despite the loss in the final, most fans would probably agree that the Fozz era did some damage to the ABs and will require some rebuilding. Fresh starts take time. But of course that won't mean he should be free to embark on a flood of losses on the back of abject play
I agree he needs a little bit of leeway (3 or 4 games?), but he knows the players, is hardly coming in cold and inheriting a core team good enough to get to a RWC Final and a solid base to work from.
The argument against Foster was that he was continuity and we needed an outsider as AB Coach, we have all the cattle we needed but didn't use them, and Robertson was one of the finest coaches in world rugby who would sort everything out. That's about to be put to the test - exciting times.
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@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
Tamaiti Williams was deemed hopeless after his performance for the AB XV against the Barbarians, when he struggled at scrum time
Come on man, no one was writing him off! If you were, you pulled the trigger almost before even loading the gun there.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
Tamaiti Williams was deemed hopeless after his performance for the AB XV against the Barbarians, when he struggled at scrum time
Come on man, no one was writing him off! If you were, you pulled the trigger almost before even loading the gun there.
This is what you posted last year :
80 minutes.
Immediate elevation to the ABs - Levi Aumua, DMac, Stevenson. In that order. Hand over your jerseys Havili, Clarke...and ummm.someone else.
More please - Nankivell, Dickson, Weber, Sullivan, Gardiner.
So long and thanks for all the shoes - Tuipulotu, Christie, Williams, Jacobson.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
Tamaiti Williams was deemed hopeless after his performance for the AB XV against the Barbarians, when he struggled at scrum time
Come on man, no one was writing him off! If you were, you pulled the trigger almost before even loading the gun there.
This is what you posted last year :
80 minutes.
Immediate elevation to the ABs - Levi Aumua, DMac, Stevenson. In that order. Hand over your jerseys Havili, Clarke...and ummm.someone else.
More please - Nankivell, Dickson, Weber, Sullivan, Gardiner.
So long and thanks for all the shoes - Tuipulotu, Christie, Williams, Jacobson.
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@Canes4life Ardie Savea hasn't played at 7 for about 4 years, and playing at 7 would take away his attacking game as he'd be required to do a lot more clean out work and playing as a first tackler, which doesn't suit his game. He's turned into a world class 8, a more rounded position.
He's not playing 7 again, I don't even know how it is still a talking point going into 2024.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life Ardie Savea hasn't played at 7 for about 4 years, and playing at 7 would take away his attacking game as he'd be required to do a lot more clean out work and playing as a first tackler, which doesn't suit his game. He's turned into a world class 8, a more rounded position.
He's not playing 7 again, I don't even know how it is still a talking point going into 2024.
But he would make a great 2nd 5…
He’s an 8 and a damn good one at that. We have the makings of an excellent loose trio with Savea and Papali’i.
Blindside will be wide open but the good thing there is that we have a few players that have some test experience to build from.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life Ardie Savea hasn't played at 7 for about 4 years, and playing at 7 would take away his attacking game as he'd be required to do a lot more clean out work and playing as a first tackler, which doesn't suit his game. He's turned into a world class 8, a more rounded position.
He's not playing 7 again, I don't even know how it is still a talking point going into 2024.
But he would make a great 2nd 5…
He’s an 8 and a damn good one at that. We have the makings of an excellent loose trio with Savea and Papali’i.
Blindside will be wide open but the good thing there is that we have a few players that have some test experience to build from.
@ACT-Crusader Finau at 6 with Blackadder on the bench is really well balanced and I'm hoping they kick on this year.
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@ACT-Crusader Finau at 6 with Blackadder on the bench is really well balanced and I'm hoping they kick on this year.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Razor should be afforded time to establish himself.
Why should he be any different?
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch. Along with the fact that, despite the loss in the final, most fans would probably agree that the Fozz era did some damage to the ABs and will require some rebuilding. Fresh starts take time. But of course that won't mean he should be free to embark on a flood of losses on the back of abject play
I agree he needs a little bit of leeway (3 or 4 games?), but he knows the players, is hardly coming in cold and inheriting a core team good enough to get to a RWC Final and a solid base to work from.
The argument against Foster was that he was continuity and we needed an outsider as AB Coach, we have all the cattle we needed but didn't use them, and Robertson was one of the finest coaches in world rugby who would sort everything out. That's about to be put to the test - exciting times.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
The argument against Foster was that he was continuity and we needed an outsider as AB Coach, we have all the cattle we needed but didn't use them, and Robertson was one of the finest coaches in world rugby who would sort everything out. That's about to be put to the test - exciting times.
No, the argument against Foster was his record, his losses, his selection and bench, his tactics, and how he said he would be his own man but then was super conservative Hansen-light, and stuck with his assistant coaches who weren't up to it:
19.12.2019 https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2019/12/18/all-blacks-foster-assistants
"They're all outstanding coaches in their own right, and we'll have new voices and fresh ideas in the All Blacks, which will be really stimulating for everyone, and help us grow as we enter a new era."
24.08.2021
https://www.allblacks.com/news/ian-foster-reappointed-as-all-blacks-head-coach/
“What is equally important to me is the fact that I’m just one part of an outstanding coaching and management team and to continue working with them is a privilege and inspires me to be the best head coach I can be, Foster said.""After dropping a series at home for the first time in almost three decades with their loss to Ireland earlier this month, the team announced they have parted ways with forwards coach John Plumtree and backs coach Brad Mooar on Sunday – a move Foster said "we all feel we need for this team"."
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
Tamaiti Williams was deemed hopeless after his performance for the AB XV against the Barbarians, when he struggled at scrum time
Come on man, no one was writing him off! If you were, you pulled the trigger almost before even loading the gun there.
This is what you posted last year :
80 minutes.
Immediate elevation to the ABs - Levi Aumua, DMac, Stevenson. In that order. Hand over your jerseys Havili, Clarke...and ummm.someone else.
More please - Nankivell, Dickson, Weber, Sullivan, Gardiner.
So long and thanks for all the shoes - Tuipulotu, Christie, Williams, Jacobson.
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
Tamaiti Williams was deemed hopeless after his performance for the AB XV against the Barbarians, when he struggled at scrum time
Come on man, no one was writing him off! If you were, you pulled the trigger almost before even loading the gun there.
This is what you posted last year :
80 minutes.
Immediate elevation to the ABs - Levi Aumua, DMac, Stevenson. In that order. Hand over your jerseys Havili, Clarke...and ummm.someone else.
More please - Nankivell, Dickson, Weber, Sullivan, Gardiner.
So long and thanks for all the shoes - Tuipulotu, Christie, Williams, Jacobson.
Who tracks what some prick* says last year ... ?
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@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
Tamaiti Williams was deemed hopeless after his performance for the AB XV against the Barbarians, when he struggled at scrum time
Come on man, no one was writing him off! If you were, you pulled the trigger almost before even loading the gun there.
This is what you posted last year :
80 minutes.
Immediate elevation to the ABs - Levi Aumua, DMac, Stevenson. In that order. Hand over your jerseys Havili, Clarke...and ummm.someone else.
More please - Nankivell, Dickson, Weber, Sullivan, Gardiner.
So long and thanks for all the shoes - Tuipulotu, Christie, Williams, Jacobson.
Who tracks what some prick* says last year ... ?
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
Tamaiti Williams was deemed hopeless after his performance for the AB XV against the Barbarians, when he struggled at scrum time
Come on man, no one was writing him off! If you were, you pulled the trigger almost before even loading the gun there.
This is what you posted last year :
80 minutes.
Immediate elevation to the ABs - Levi Aumua, DMac, Stevenson. In that order. Hand over your jerseys Havili, Clarke...and ummm.someone else.
More please - Nankivell, Dickson, Weber, Sullivan, Gardiner.
So long and thanks for all the shoes - Tuipulotu, Christie, Williams, Jacobson.
Who tracks what some prick* says last year ... ?
I feel like @cgrant might be more Arab than me with that kinda grudge holding.
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@Blunders said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones like that loose trio with Blackadder on the bench. I could support that.
I'd be happy to give EB a go at 7, with DP on the bench too.
