All Blacks 2024.. locked
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Razor should be afforded time to establish himself.
Why should he be any different?
Unlike Fozz, who was the last in the GH-Shag coaching line, Razor has to start from scratch. Along with the fact that, despite the loss in the final, most fans would probably agree that the Fozz era did some damage to the ABs and will require some rebuilding. Fresh starts take time. But of course that won't mean he should be free to embark on a flood of losses on the back of abject play
I agree he needs a little bit of leeway (3 or 4 games?), but he knows the players, is hardly coming in cold and inheriting a core team good enough to get to a RWC Final and a solid base to work from.
The argument against Foster was that he was continuity and we needed an outsider as AB Coach, we have all the cattle we needed but didn't use them, and Robertson was one of the finest coaches in world rugby who would sort everything out. That's about to be put to the test - exciting times.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
The argument against Foster was that he was continuity and we needed an outsider as AB Coach, we have all the cattle we needed but didn't use them, and Robertson was one of the finest coaches in world rugby who would sort everything out. That's about to be put to the test - exciting times.
No, the argument against Foster was his record, his losses, his selection and bench, his tactics, and how he said he would be his own man but then was super conservative Hansen-light, and stuck with his assistant coaches who weren't up to it:
19.12.2019 https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2019/12/18/all-blacks-foster-assistants
"They're all outstanding coaches in their own right, and we'll have new voices and fresh ideas in the All Blacks, which will be really stimulating for everyone, and help us grow as we enter a new era."
24.08.2021
https://www.allblacks.com/news/ian-foster-reappointed-as-all-blacks-head-coach/
“What is equally important to me is the fact that I’m just one part of an outstanding coaching and management team and to continue working with them is a privilege and inspires me to be the best head coach I can be, Foster said.""After dropping a series at home for the first time in almost three decades with their loss to Ireland earlier this month, the team announced they have parted ways with forwards coach John Plumtree and backs coach Brad Mooar on Sunday – a move Foster said "we all feel we need for this team"."
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
Tamaiti Williams was deemed hopeless after his performance for the AB XV against the Barbarians, when he struggled at scrum time
Come on man, no one was writing him off! If you were, you pulled the trigger almost before even loading the gun there.
This is what you posted last year :
80 minutes.
Immediate elevation to the ABs - Levi Aumua, DMac, Stevenson. In that order. Hand over your jerseys Havili, Clarke...and ummm.someone else.
More please - Nankivell, Dickson, Weber, Sullivan, Gardiner.
So long and thanks for all the shoes - Tuipulotu, Christie, Williams, Jacobson.
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
Tamaiti Williams was deemed hopeless after his performance for the AB XV against the Barbarians, when he struggled at scrum time
Come on man, no one was writing him off! If you were, you pulled the trigger almost before even loading the gun there.
This is what you posted last year :
80 minutes.
Immediate elevation to the ABs - Levi Aumua, DMac, Stevenson. In that order. Hand over your jerseys Havili, Clarke...and ummm.someone else.
More please - Nankivell, Dickson, Weber, Sullivan, Gardiner.
So long and thanks for all the shoes - Tuipulotu, Christie, Williams, Jacobson.
Who tracks what some prick* says last year ... ?
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@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
Tamaiti Williams was deemed hopeless after his performance for the AB XV against the Barbarians, when he struggled at scrum time
Come on man, no one was writing him off! If you were, you pulled the trigger almost before even loading the gun there.
This is what you posted last year :
80 minutes.
Immediate elevation to the ABs - Levi Aumua, DMac, Stevenson. In that order. Hand over your jerseys Havili, Clarke...and ummm.someone else.
More please - Nankivell, Dickson, Weber, Sullivan, Gardiner.
So long and thanks for all the shoes - Tuipulotu, Christie, Williams, Jacobson.
Who tracks what some prick* says last year ... ?
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2024:
Tamaiti Williams was deemed hopeless after his performance for the AB XV against the Barbarians, when he struggled at scrum time
Come on man, no one was writing him off! If you were, you pulled the trigger almost before even loading the gun there.
This is what you posted last year :
80 minutes.
Immediate elevation to the ABs - Levi Aumua, DMac, Stevenson. In that order. Hand over your jerseys Havili, Clarke...and ummm.someone else.
More please - Nankivell, Dickson, Weber, Sullivan, Gardiner.
So long and thanks for all the shoes - Tuipulotu, Christie, Williams, Jacobson.
Who tracks what some prick* says last year ... ?
I feel like @cgrant might be more Arab than me with that kinda grudge holding.
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@Blunders said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones like that loose trio with Blackadder on the bench. I could support that.
I'd be happy to give EB a go at 7, with DP on the bench too.
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@ACT-Crusader Finau at 6 with Blackadder on the bench is really well balanced and I'm hoping they kick on this year.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@ACT-Crusader Finau at 6 with Blackadder on the bench is really well balanced and I'm hoping they kick on this year.
Finau you would think has to be an option, based on Ryan talking him up and being in the mix this year
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I just want to see the AB's play with a discernable game-plan and with more composure.
My main gripe was that when we couldn't make hard yards up the middle we'd either pass it wide (were there was no space and we'd go backward) or do a silly short kick with an absent chase that would give away possession.
Either double down on taking it up the guts and retain possession of the ball at least, or kick it long so we can play in the right area's of the field.
We would panic a lot - either with the ball when we weren't going forward or on defense where we got penalized and sent off the field. A lot of penalties we gave away were people trying to get turnovers when they were in a poor position to do so, as we saw against the Irish in the 1/4 final a lot can be said for simply making your tackles and reforming the line without sticking your hands in the ruck all the time - unfortunately we saw precious little of this level of composure in the 3 years preceding that.
And consistency of selection - in that players in good form get selected and given a chance and players out of form aren't pedantically stuck to.
I hope it's not too much to ask.
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what's really funny is
the last 3 games of the world cup we did pretty much exactly what you were asking. I was impressed and fucked off at the same time.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
what's really funny is
the last 3 games of the world cup we did pretty much exactly what you were asking. I was impressed and fucked off at the same time.
i think we TRIED to do it for the last 3 games, succeeded against Ireland but didnt execute well enough against SA...which kind of makes sense if you change the game play so late in the piece...i mean we needed to as the helter skelter approach wasn't going to cut it...but was just a but late to perfect it
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@Bones I'd just play EB on his own, play 6, 7 and 8 at the same time, no need for anyone else.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones I'd just play EB on his own, play 6, 7 and 8 at the same time, no need for anyone else.
You are going to suffer the wrath of canes fans though.
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I don't think of Papalii as a traditional no.7, which is what Robertson seems to like in his teams.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I don't think of Papalii as a traditional no.7, which is what Robertson seems to like in his teams.
Yeah, reminds e a bit of Ireland's O'Brien. Thing is though, I think Papalii can play a more traditional role if required. I think he's actually quite similar to Ardie, just not as light on his feet.
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I just want to see the AB's play with a discernable game-plan and with more composure.
My main gripe was that when we couldn't make hard yards up the middle we'd either pass it wide (were there was no space and we'd go backward) or do a silly short kick with an absent chase that would give away possession.
Either double down on taking it up the guts and retain possession of the ball at least, or kick it long so we can play in the right area's of the field.
We would panic a lot - either with the ball when we weren't going forward or on defense where we got penalized and sent off the field. A lot of penalties we gave away were people trying to get turnovers when they were in a poor position to do so, as we saw against the Irish in the 1/4 final a lot can be said for simply making your tackles and reforming the line without sticking your hands in the ruck all the time - unfortunately we saw precious little of this level of composure in the 3 years preceding that.
And consistency of selection - in that players in good form get selected and given a chance and players out of form aren't pedantically stuck to.
I hope it's not too much to ask.
I think we are now pretty much there, composure-wise. The difference between the 2019 RWC and this one was stark. There has been a slow but steady improvement in the last 2 years (with obvious road-bumps).
Agree on picking in-form players, but also pick players to suit your game-plan and give them time to develop - e.g. Frizzell. Fine balance here and NZR need to make sure SR & Robertson are working together on this.
Robertson has a solid core to work with, plenty of time to evolve and develop game plans and players once he's comfortable with things, and develop some depth. If there are a few embarrassing losses on the way, so be it - that's the reality of Test rugby these days.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Exactly!! Why weren't we playing that brand of rugby in the years prior??
Time? Turning around team culture/composure isn't as simple as flicking a switch.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Exactly!! Why weren't we playing that brand of rugby in the years prior??
Time? Turning around team culture/composure isn't as simple as flicking a switch.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Exactly!! Why weren't we playing that brand of rugby in the years prior??
Time? Turning around team culture/composure isn't as simple as flicking a switch.
Jesus man. It doesn't take 4 years to change your game plan. Your Foster defence is perking up again.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Exactly!! Why weren't we playing that brand of rugby in the years prior??
Time? Turning around team culture/composure isn't as simple as flicking a switch.
Jesus man. It doesn't take 4 years to change your game plan. Your Foster defence is perking up again.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Exactly!! Why weren't we playing that brand of rugby in the years prior??
Time? Turning around team culture/composure isn't as simple as flicking a switch.
Jesus man. It doesn't take 4 years to change your game plan. Your Foster defence is perking up again.
Your point would be valid if I was talking about game-plans. I wasn't.
Comprehension dear boy, comprehension...
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Exactly!! Why weren't we playing that brand of rugby in the years prior??
Time? Turning around team culture/composure isn't as simple as flicking a switch.
Jesus man. It doesn't take 4 years to change your game plan. Your Foster defence is perking up again.
Your point would be valid if I was talking about game-plans. I wasn't.
Comprehension dear boy, comprehension...
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Exactly!! Why weren't we playing that brand of rugby in the years prior??
Time? Turning around team culture/composure isn't as simple as flicking a switch.
Jesus man. It doesn't take 4 years to change your game plan. Your Foster defence is perking up again.
Your point would be valid if I was talking about game-plans. I wasn't.
Comprehension dear boy, comprehension...
So the culture was the issue and it took 4 years to turn that around? The culture of a team where many of the leaders were all time greats and had been ridiculously successful?
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Exactly!! Why weren't we playing that brand of rugby in the years prior??
Time? Turning around team culture/composure isn't as simple as flicking a switch.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Exactly!! Why weren't we playing that brand of rugby in the years prior??
Time? Turning around team culture/composure isn't as simple as flicking a switch.
Nah. They just changed the assistants who were far better coaches than the previous ones. Foster was always a non entity.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Exactly!! Why weren't we playing that brand of rugby in the years prior??
Time? Turning around team culture/composure isn't as simple as flicking a switch.
Nah. They just changed the assistants who were far better coaches than the previous ones. Foster was always a non entity.
@Frank said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Exactly!! Why weren't we playing that brand of rugby in the years prior??
Time? Turning around team culture/composure isn't as simple as flicking a switch.
Nah. They just changed the assistants who were far better coaches than the previous ones. Foster was always a non entity.
What on earth have Foster's assistants to do with generally accepted timescales to change culture in a team or organisation?
[mod edit]
Thread continues here, without the Foster repetitiveness:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/6440/all-blacks-2024-no-interminable-foster-arguments/
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T Tim locked this topic on
