All Blacks 2024
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So, the last dozen entries (in addition to, I guess, my own replies) in this thread reminded me that with regard to AB midfielders I don't rate:
Ennor
Havilli
Ioane
TupeaALB is getting on and is more like a bandaid whenever one of the above guys get mentioned as AB contender. Solid but not spectacular.
JBarrett is a cup half full or cup half empty, depending on how you look at his time at 12.
Strangely, McCleod is the only one of the current AB midfielders that hasn't gone down in my estimation, but maybe that's bc he hadn't been coached by you-know-who for many seasons.
If you look at those listed, there are several examples of utility players and recent positional converts in that group. Some of them even struggle to identify themselves exclusively as a 12 or a 13 (falling around between the two spots). NZ is the only major country that doesn't always select specialists in midfield. This is strange considering the past disastrous Cullen, McDonald, Ben Smith positional switch episodes and how long it took T Umaga to get the hang of his midfield duties.
There are some specialist options at super level (ppl who play in the same position week in and week out). With some deep thought re specific combinations, there could be some positive surprises imo. Of course, those uncapped players need to show form this year.
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So, the last dozen entries (in addition to, I guess, my own replies) in this thread reminded me that with regard to AB midfielders I don't rate:
Ennor
Havilli
Ioane
TupeaALB is getting on and is more like a bandaid whenever one of the above guys get mentioned as AB contender. Solid but not spectacular.
JBarrett is a cup half full or cup half empty, depending on how you look at his time at 12.
Strangely, McCleod is the only one of the current AB midfielders that hasn't gone down in my estimation, but maybe that's bc he hadn't been coached by you-know-who for many seasons.
If you look at those listed, there are several examples of utility players and recent positional converts in that group. Some of them even struggle to identify themselves exclusively as a 12 or a 13 (falling around between the two spots). NZ is the only major country that doesn't always select specialists in midfield. This is strange considering the past disastrous Cullen, McDonald, Ben Smith positional switch episodes and how long it took T Umaga to get the hang of his midfield duties.
There are some specialist options at super level (ppl who play in the same position week in and week out). With some deep thought re specific combinations, there could be some positive surprises imo. Of course, those uncapped players need to show form this year.
-
So, the last dozen entries (in addition to, I guess, my own replies) in this thread reminded me that with regard to AB midfielders I don't rate:
Ennor
Havilli
Ioane
TupeaALB is getting on and is more like a bandaid whenever one of the above guys get mentioned as AB contender. Solid but not spectacular.
JBarrett is a cup half full or cup half empty, depending on how you look at his time at 12.
Strangely, McCleod is the only one of the current AB midfielders that hasn't gone down in my estimation, but maybe that's bc he hadn't been coached by you-know-who for many seasons.
If you look at those listed, there are several examples of utility players and recent positional converts in that group. Some of them even struggle to identify themselves exclusively as a 12 or a 13 (falling around between the two spots). NZ is the only major country that doesn't always select specialists in midfield. This is strange considering the past disastrous Cullen, McDonald, Ben Smith positional switch episodes and how long it took T Umaga to get the hang of his midfield duties.
There are some specialist options at super level (ppl who play in the same position week in and week out). With some deep thought re specific combinations, there could be some positive surprises imo. Of course, those uncapped players need to show form this year.
-
So, the last dozen entries (in addition to, I guess, my own replies) in this thread reminded me that with regard to AB midfielders I don't rate:
Ennor
Havilli
Ioane
TupeaALB is getting on and is more like a bandaid whenever one of the above guys get mentioned as AB contender. Solid but not spectacular.
JBarrett is a cup half full or cup half empty, depending on how you look at his time at 12.
Strangely, McCleod is the only one of the current AB midfielders that hasn't gone down in my estimation, but maybe that's bc he hadn't been coached by you-know-who for many seasons.
If you look at those listed, there are several examples of utility players and recent positional converts in that group. Some of them even struggle to identify themselves exclusively as a 12 or a 13 (falling around between the two spots). NZ is the only major country that doesn't always select specialists in midfield. This is strange considering the past disastrous Cullen, McDonald, Ben Smith positional switch episodes and how long it took T Umaga to get the hang of his midfield duties.
There are some specialist options at super level (ppl who play in the same position week in and week out). With some deep thought re specific combinations, there could be some positive surprises imo. Of course, those uncapped players need to show form this year.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
The Way Razor has set up the selection of the squad is very good imo.
Having each coach responsible for the selection of certain positions.
The pointer to selection of the team is not all around Razor but where the other coaches will lean towards.five different selecting groups for one team. what could go wrong?
Over seen by Razor and Wayne smith Nothing imo.
So who's actually in charge of selecting the team?
The structure of selection
Ryan picks the tight 5
Razor the LFs
Hanson Hbs and First fives
Holland MF
McDonald outside backsRazor overseas the selection with Wayne Smiths in put.
Yeah, I get the structure, But who is actually in charge of selecting the team? Or do you mean training squad.
EDIT: Just seen you replied "Both".
So in reality it's a committee of 5 to pick 15 positions for a Test match and that committee is overseen by one bloke with input from another. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
It will be interesting it maybe a masterstroke or as you say a disaster.
I suppose if makes all the coaching staff responsible for certain areas and gets them to buy in to the team even more.@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
The Way Razor has set up the selection of the squad is very good imo.
Having each coach responsible for the selection of certain positions.
The pointer to selection of the team is not all around Razor but where the other coaches will lean towards.five different selecting groups for one team. what could go wrong?
Over seen by Razor and Wayne smith Nothing imo.
So who's actually in charge of selecting the team?
The structure of selection
Ryan picks the tight 5
Razor the LFs
Hanson Hbs and First fives
Holland MF
McDonald outside backsRazor overseas the selection with Wayne Smiths in put.
Yeah, I get the structure, But who is actually in charge of selecting the team? Or do you mean training squad.
EDIT: Just seen you replied "Both".
So in reality it's a committee of 5 to pick 15 positions for a Test match and that committee is overseen by one bloke with input from another. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
It will be interesting it maybe a masterstroke or as you say a disaster.
Have zero problem with 5 coaches suggesting players and input from an éminence grise, but Roberson has to take any final decisions
I suppose if makes all the coaching staff responsible for certain areas and gets them to buy in to the team even more.
If Robertson has to do that to get his coaches to buy into his team, then we are really up shit creek in a barbed-wire canoe without a paddle....
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So, the last dozen entries (in addition to, I guess, my own replies) in this thread reminded me that with regard to AB midfielders I don't rate:
Ennor
Havilli
Ioane
TupeaALB is getting on and is more like a bandaid whenever one of the above guys get mentioned as AB contender. Solid but not spectacular.
JBarrett is a cup half full or cup half empty, depending on how you look at his time at 12.
Strangely, McCleod is the only one of the current AB midfielders that hasn't gone down in my estimation, but maybe that's bc he hadn't been coached by you-know-who for many seasons.
If you look at those listed, there are several examples of utility players and recent positional converts in that group. Some of them even struggle to identify themselves exclusively as a 12 or a 13 (falling around between the two spots). NZ is the only major country that doesn't always select specialists in midfield. This is strange considering the past disastrous Cullen, McDonald, Ben Smith positional switch episodes and how long it took T Umaga to get the hang of his midfield duties.
There are some specialist options at super level (ppl who play in the same position week in and week out). With some deep thought re specific combinations, there could be some positive surprises imo. Of course, those uncapped players need to show form this year.
I'm convinced the combination is as important as the players. Without looking it up, I'd guess RI/JB have spent as much time together as any other 12/13 combination in the last few years.
I'd imagine Robertson will stick with JB/RI for this year but hope he tries some new combinations off the bench and against the lesser teams in the latter part.
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@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
NZ is the only major country that doesn't always select specialists in midfield
If that was true, it would be interesting, you're right. Alas, the likes of Kriel and Fickou make it false.
@Bones Kriel is a specialist 13 that was pushed out to wing due to the meteoric rise of Am. It was also during a period when their first choice wingers weren't available iirc. In South Africa, moving a player from a more complex role like 13 to wing (seen as the "easier" position) on a temporary basis is not uncommon. A move in the opposite direction (from being a specialist wing to playing as a 13) is far more rare in the Republic though. I don't think I've seen them attempt the 15 to 13 switch at test level like the ABs have done three times.
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@Punch_up A great post. In the last World Cup cycle France and Ireland had midfielders with much more skills and guile than ours. This is something I want the new coaches to look at fixing urgently.
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I'm convinced the combination is as important as the players. Without looking it up, I'd guess RI/JB have spent as much time together as any other 12/13 combination in the last few years.
I'd imagine Robertson will stick with JB/RI for this year but hope he tries some new combinations off the bench and against the lesser teams in the latter part.
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@Bones Kriel is a specialist 13 that was pushed out to wing due to the meteoric rise of Am. It was also during a period when their first choice wingers weren't available iirc. In South Africa, moving a player from a more complex role like 13 to wing (seen as the "easier" position) on a temporary basis is not uncommon. A move in the opposite direction (from being a specialist wing to playing as a 13) is far more rare in the Republic though. I don't think I've seen them attempt the 15 to 13 switch at test level like the ABs have done three times.
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bones Kriel is a specialist 13 that was pushed out to wing due to the meteoric rise of Am. It was also during a period when their first choice wingers weren't available iirc. In South Africa, moving a player from a more complex role like 13 to wing (seen as the "easier" position) on a temporary basis is not uncommon. A move in the opposite direction (from being a specialist wing to playing as a 13) is far more rare in the Republic though. I don't think I've seen them attempt the 15 to 13 switch at test level like the ABs have done three times.
I mean if you want to go down that route, JB is a specialist 12 and RI is a specialist 13. They just got moved to "easier" positions first....
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
The Way Razor has set up the selection of the squad is very good imo.
Having each coach responsible for the selection of certain positions.
The pointer to selection of the team is not all around Razor but where the other coaches will lean towards.five different selecting groups for one team. what could go wrong?
Over seen by Razor and Wayne smith Nothing imo.
So who's actually in charge of selecting the team?
The structure of selection
Ryan picks the tight 5
Razor the LFs
Hanson Hbs and First fives
Holland MF
McDonald outside backsRazor overseas the selection with Wayne Smiths in put.
Yeah, I get the structure, But who is actually in charge of selecting the team? Or do you mean training squad.
EDIT: Just seen you replied "Both".
So in reality it's a committee of 5 to pick 15 positions for a Test match and that committee is overseen by one bloke with input from another. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
It will be interesting it maybe a masterstroke or as you say a disaster.
Have zero problem with 5 coaches suggesting players and input from an éminence grise, but Roberson has to take any final decisions
I suppose if makes all the coaching staff responsible for certain areas and gets them to buy in to the team even more.
If Robertson has to do that to get his coaches to buy into his team, then we are really up shit creek in a barbed-wire canoe without a paddle....
@Victor-Meldrew Razor is so smart for doing this.
Me: "Razor and the AB selectors totally ignored my favourite 1st Five--"
Razor: "Don't blame me. Send your hatemail to Hansen."
Me: "And why didn't you pick those three fullbacks I like?!"
Razor: "Here's Leon MacDonald's email address. All complaints re outside back go to him."
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Don't forget Nonu developed his passing and kicking skills over time
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Don't forget Nonu developed his passing and kicking skills over time
Still playing too.
If he’s keen to become the oldest AB ever I’d thoroughly endorse any attempts he made at a comeback too.
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@Victor-Meldrew Yeah, I agree to a degree and I suspect they'll do as you suggest, but just want Razor (or should I say Holland) to pick some new midfielders and start giving them gametime as combinations a.s.a.p.
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew Yeah, I agree to a degree and I suspect they'll do as you suggest, but just want Razor (or should I say Holland) to pick some new midfielders and start giving them gametime as combinations a.s.a.p.
Why? They need to demonstrate that they're the best in their positions at the lower level and then impress in the squad first.
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Aaron Golie suggesting Cane as captain again this year:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/133533229/scott-barrett-as-all-blacks-captain-lets-just-hold-our-crusaders-horsesI don't think that makes sense. Cane's output isn't as consistent as what it was and it's hard to see that improving with another year on the clock
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@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew Yeah, I agree to a degree and I suspect they'll do as you suggest, but just want Razor (or should I say Holland) to pick some new midfielders and start giving them gametime as combinations a.s.a.p.
Why? They need to demonstrate that they're the best in their positions at the lower level and then impress in the squad first.
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@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bones Kriel is a specialist 13 that was pushed out to wing due to the meteoric rise of Am. It was also during a period when their first choice wingers weren't available iirc. In South Africa, moving a player from a more complex role like 13 to wing (seen as the "easier" position) on a temporary basis is not uncommon. A move in the opposite direction (from being a specialist wing to playing as a 13) is far more rare in the Republic though. I don't think I've seen them attempt the 15 to 13 switch at test level like the ABs have done three times.
I mean if you want to go down that route, JB is a specialist 12 and RI is a specialist 13. They just got moved to "easier" positions first....
@Bones They started in those positions, but spent significant time outside of midfield (JB bc he moved to a team where he played everywhere but 12 and Rieko bc his speed made wing seem logical). At times their current play makes that clear - they lack some of subtleties that come from consistent years in midfield.
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@antipodean Of course. I just don't want Holland to be too conservative in his selections when uncapped midfielders do impress at super level.
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@antipodean Of course. I just don't want Holland to be too conservative in his selections when uncapped midfielders do impress at super level.
On that we agree. I want form players given opportunities, otherwise what's the point?
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@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@antipodean Of course. I just don't want Holland to be too conservative in his selections when uncapped midfielders do impress at super level.
On that we agree. I want form players given opportunities, otherwise what's the point?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Punch_up said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@antipodean Of course. I just don't want Holland to be too conservative in his selections when uncapped midfielders do impress at super level.
On that we agree. I want form players given opportunities, otherwise what's the point?
But it has to be done within a framework of existing core players. Foster's penchant for picking a swag of new players all at once is counter productive and doesn't build combinations or confidence
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Wait - wasn't one of the more common criticisms of Foster that he was overly loyal to existing players?
But now also - a penchant for picking swags of new players all at once?
He was truly a troublesome little (or not-so-little, compulsory fat-joke, guffaw) devil, wasn't he?
