Mental Illness.
-
@nzzp said in Mental Illness.:
@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
Meaning, or purpose, tend to be where people struggle in retirement although structure comes into it as you say.
having had some extended time off, this is what concerns me. I'm really struggling to define my purpose now the major stuff is being checked off ... it's really annoying.
You need to keep the brain active, we are all used to having a sense of purpose and structure that work provides. Having some sort of part time job to give you purpose, but to not affect your freedom to travel and do other things you enjoy, is difficult to obtain but IMHO ideal
-
@nzzp said in Mental Illness.:
@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
Meaning, or purpose, tend to be where people struggle in retirement although structure comes into it as you say.
having had some extended time off, this is what concerns me. I'm really struggling to define my purpose now the major stuff is being checked off ... it's really annoying.
If it's "only" annoying you're doing well although I suspect that it is a little more than that. It can be a lot more than that for some. Increase in suicide rate is a bit of a clue and it doesn't really ease up either.
@dogmeat said in Mental Illness.:
As far as I can see the only thing I will miss is the regular salary.
Apart from that side of it, any sort of retirement should have some sort of plan. I failed dismally in that regard and in hindsight I should have put as much effort into planning my very early (semi) retirement as I did my career. I failed so badly that I am going back to large jets which I really didn't think that I would do, but kind of looking forward to it. It's hardly meaningful but it's something I suppose.
Maybe this should go in the "happiness" thread but it is what I was getting at earlier about the blurred lines between mental illness and mental health.
-
@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
If it's "only" annoying you're doing well although I suspect that it is a little more than that. It can be a lot more than that for some. Increase in suicide rate is a bit of a clue and it doesn't really ease up either.
Good comment. Annoying at the moment as I'm deliberately tackling it over the next year or so. If things don't shift, then it goes from annoying to concerning.
-
As @Smudge said: good thread. There is a lot to unpack with this stuff, and some really interesting things so far.
Agree with the comments about physical = mental links, and those immediately above from @dogmeat and @Snowy about people needing a purpose. Some of them result in that purpose being drawing attention to themselves to the detriment of almost everyone else.
Money is a means to an end - doing what you want - and free time shouldn't be wasted. You hear all the time about guys who hit retirement and degrade pretty quickly. Particularly if they were a workaholic. I'm not
and want to be able to retire and still be fit enough to enjoy it. -
All that said: Mental health is often real, unrecognised, and goes untreated too often.
I went through a period of anxiety related to my own physical degradation. It was a spiral, but not to the point of kill-myself like some poor bastards.
I'd seen a counsellor who helped me acquire some tools - mental switches, if you like - to help move past things when they arose. I knew the real issues: Work was pissing me off, and the marital scene was declining (particulary as the MIL's mental health spiralled down). These things fed off each other, and resulted in physical outcomes of that anxiety like ED and insomnia.
When medicos found out my Dad died of heart issues, they put me on a few things, and I will say: beta blockers can fuck. you. up. Ditched those after a period of emotional instability.
What stopped the rot was mainly time. Getting mellow in my old age? Maturing in my 40s?
I couldn't control certain outcomes, but I could "play the game" at work and let people do their thing, even if I thought my option was better. Putting the frustration of my personal life in a box when I walked in the door at work was tough to do; there are so many fuckwits at a large corporation who could set me off.
One HR person even suggested antidepressants. I gave it some thought but then realised I was not actually doing much to help myself.
COVID was a blessing in this regard. Working from home is perfect when you're trying to solve problems:
- Fuckwits can't just come up to your desk and interrupt you in the middle of something important
- I could swear and mutter and wear my RBF all day without issue, as long as I put on a smile during meetings
- You get to shape your day around your life, not the other way around.
I still have my moments, but I'm getting better at moving them aside when they arise. I don't even shout at rugby games on the TV any more.
-
@nzzp said in Mental Illness.:
Filling in the time isn't the issue - it's just feeling a bit pointless.
Yep. No answer to that one. Work is a good distraction from trying to find a meaning to life. Do not go down the road of dwelling on that. It is fraught with danger.
@nzzp said in Mental Illness.:
have always been quite driven and my midlife crisis is trying to find the new meaning.
Yep again. Knowing what is going on is great and somewhat helpful. Finding answers is proving to be problematic, for me anyway. I know that it is just a useful expression, but "midlife crisis" does tend to trivialise it a bit given the rise in suicide numbers that I mentioned.
@NTA said in Mental Illness.:
retire and still be fit enough to enjoy it.
Yeah, but you can chuck it in too early as well I think. It's probably changing rather than retiring I suppose. I'm physically fitter than I have been for the last couple of decades, mentally not so much (if we are talking "happiness" again). The absolute worst is when you have neither. The very darkest of places to be seen there.
It's all learning. The odd thing is that one of the things that started me feeling better was learning again. I started studying psychology to find out what was going on in my own head (and others) and that act of studying was part of a remedy (for me anyway).
-
@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
It's all learning. The odd thing is that one of the things that started me feeling better was learning again. I started studying psychology to find out what was going on in my own head (and others) and that act of studying was part of a remedy (for me anyway).
I decided to learn Italian. Downloaded and paid for Duolingo app, spend about 10-15 minutes every morning the last 3 weeks on it learning the basics and some of the subtleties. The boy did some at high school as well.
(However it is a fucking punish sometimes having a wife with an Italian background - she'll just ask us random questions about names or phrases, then get all superior about it. Pardon me for not growing up surrounded by your mother tongue. Jeez... I should have done Russian)
-
@NTA said in Mental Illness.:
Particularly if they were a workaholic.
I was. Then I decided I wanted to be able to live to retirement.
I'm fortunate I think in that I have a lot of 'hobbies' that I simply don't have the time to enjoy. Plus some new shit I'm keen to get into to challenge me. Also travel. Want to travel slowly. Rent a place in (e.g.) Istanbul for six weeks. My travel bucket list is long.
I also have spoken to the owner of my local craft bar about potentially doing a few shifts and he was interested, but I'm not so sure I want to be on the other side of the bar.
Hopefully I'm not deluding myself. I guess time spent on the Fern will be the canary.
-
Everyone needs a plan, a bit of struggle to get there, and that feeling of achievement/tiredness/fuck me. My group of friends' mantra is, "Everyone needs projects." Usually followed by, "What the fuck else are you going to do?"
-
On meaning, my life is all consumed with 3 young boys at the moment, and my job/career has gone well so that keeps me busy too. But I'm very conscious of when the boys get older and move out, I'll have to have a plan to replace that as they'll need me less and less and work (in its current form) will only get me so far. I've thought about teaching at primary school level, and even enrolled at teachers college after Uni before pulling out to pursue a career in tech. I feel like making a difference in kids lives would be one of the more meaningful forms of work out there, rather than slaving my guts out for a big corporate, so I think that's something I will revisit later in life.
-
I quit the city at 39.
Then I went back in about a year later in a much lesser/shittier role which gave me zero job satisfaction.
I don't regret quitting. But I regret coming back. I think of all the other things I could have done with the 6 years I've lost trying to build a business which in all honesty, has been pretty doomed from the word go.
I played golf with a surgeon a while back who has lost a few of his surgeon mates to heart attacks after they abruptly stopped working. He said it all to do with stress hormones and if your body suddenly loses them then heart attack risk goes up exponentially. So he's now 60 odd and reducing his hours slowly to rid his body of the need for stress hormones.
So if your job is pretty stressful then seriously think about your exit strategy. You don't want to end up like me (doing something shit) or six feet under.
Grim advice sorry.
-
@NTA said in Mental Illness.:
@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
It's all learning. The odd thing is that one of the things that started me feeling better was learning again. I started studying psychology to find out what was going on in my own head (and others) and that act of studying was part of a remedy (for me anyway).
I decided to learn Italian. Downloaded and paid for Duolingo app, spend about 10-15 minutes every morning the last 3 weeks on it learning the basics and some of the subtleties. The boy did some at high school as well.
(However it is a fucking punish sometimes having a wife with an Italian background - she'll just ask us random questions about names or phrases, then get all superior about it. Pardon me for not growing up surrounded by your mother tongue. Jeez... I should have done Russian)
Would have been easier too since you already know Polish
-
@nzzp said in Mental Illness.:
@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
Meaning, or purpose, tend to be where people struggle in retirement although structure comes into it as you say.
having had some extended time off, this is what concerns me. I'm really struggling to define my purpose now the major stuff is being checked off ... it's really annoying.
I have a plan which is rather left field given what I do now, but it's something I'm interested in and I'm looking forward to being able to devote myself to it. Specifically trying to take a farm and applying science and IT to it to improve long term management (soil quality, crop rotation etc.)
The underlying benefit is obviously increasing the yield and self sufficiency, but applying everything I've been doing over the last two decades in terms of smart set-up and cooperative farming with in-laws. A place practically off the grid, where friends can visit, base themselves as we do rides, etc. The rest of the time we want to travel.
If I'm honest it's the light at the end of the tunnel given I hate almost everything about IT. So retirement will be about being outdoors, being handy (measure twice, cut thrice), riding bikes, shooting and fishing, and sit on the back deck drinking beer watching sunsets like this
-
@nzzp said in Mental Illness.:
@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
If it's "only" annoying you're doing well although I suspect that it is a little more than that. It can be a lot more than that for some. Increase in suicide rate is a bit of a clue and it doesn't really ease up either.
Good comment. Annoying at the moment as I'm deliberately tackling it over the next year or so. If things don't shift, then it goes from annoying to concerning.
Not any expert on this, but the fact you're aware sounds a positive thing.
-
@antipodean lots of similarities to what I wanted to do at 39. I then realized I didn’t.
But I do again.
-
@MajorRage 'regrets are for people with time machines' - Mrs Antipodean
edit - I'll add to that the discussion about the existence of free will,. If an outcome was predetermined, what's the point in dwelling on the outcome?
-
@MajorRage said in Mental Illness.:
@antipodean lots of similarities to what I wanted to do at 39. I then realized I didn’t.
But I do again.
Made me laugh but seems to be what happens!
I've also kind of gone down the @antipodean route. Not the same but a lifestyle choice. Block of land was bought 20 years ago, got diploma in permaculture and eco design type stuff. Eco house now nearly finished. Orchard, gardens still to go in, but a "what next" phase happening. So as of yesterday afternoon, this:
@MajorRage said in Mental Illness.:
Then I went back in
It's different, a bit of both decision, so hopefully I have a different outcome. Sorry to hear that it didn't work out for you MR but of one thing you can be sure - it will all change again. Your later advice may be grim by the way, but it is sage nonetheless.
@MajorRage said in Mental Illness.:
I played golf with a surgeon a while back who has lost a few of his surgeon mates to heart attacks after they abruptly stopped working. He said it all to do with stress hormones and if your body suddenly loses them then heart attack risk goes up exponentially.
Yep. There was a survey done quite some time ago (in Germany I think) of pilots after retirement and a massively disproportionate number died just after stopping (especially for their age). The physiological side of change as you say from chronic stressors. Again it comes down to the wholistic thing of what the brain is up to. Stimulation and ennui are a part of it, you go from one to the other and there are physical consequences obviously. Ennui isn't simply boredom either but I won't go into it now.
-
Re your surgeon friend, a connection with the UK police pension scheme. It used to be a brilliant scheme - very generous. How could this be afforded? Well it seems that a disproportional number of police did not last too long in retirement. Research suggested heart problems due to years of adrenaline overdosing. As we all know adrenaline is the fight or flight hormone, but the poor bloody coppers who would get many times the number of adrenaline spurts than the average Joe, rarely get to fight or run away, so a lot of unused adrenaline coursing through the body countless times. Well that’s the theory anyway. Co-incidentally since there has been greater understanding of health and well being in the workplace, the pension scheme has been changed for the worse …
