Mental Illness.
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Everyone needs a plan, a bit of struggle to get there, and that feeling of achievement/tiredness/fuck me. My group of friends' mantra is, "Everyone needs projects." Usually followed by, "What the fuck else are you going to do?"
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On meaning, my life is all consumed with 3 young boys at the moment, and my job/career has gone well so that keeps me busy too. But I'm very conscious of when the boys get older and move out, I'll have to have a plan to replace that as they'll need me less and less and work (in its current form) will only get me so far. I've thought about teaching at primary school level, and even enrolled at teachers college after Uni before pulling out to pursue a career in tech. I feel like making a difference in kids lives would be one of the more meaningful forms of work out there, rather than slaving my guts out for a big corporate, so I think that's something I will revisit later in life.
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I quit the city at 39.
Then I went back in about a year later in a much lesser/shittier role which gave me zero job satisfaction.
I don't regret quitting. But I regret coming back. I think of all the other things I could have done with the 6 years I've lost trying to build a business which in all honesty, has been pretty doomed from the word go.
I played golf with a surgeon a while back who has lost a few of his surgeon mates to heart attacks after they abruptly stopped working. He said it all to do with stress hormones and if your body suddenly loses them then heart attack risk goes up exponentially. So he's now 60 odd and reducing his hours slowly to rid his body of the need for stress hormones.
So if your job is pretty stressful then seriously think about your exit strategy. You don't want to end up like me (doing something shit) or six feet under.
Grim advice sorry.
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@NTA said in Mental Illness.:
@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
It's all learning. The odd thing is that one of the things that started me feeling better was learning again. I started studying psychology to find out what was going on in my own head (and others) and that act of studying was part of a remedy (for me anyway).
I decided to learn Italian. Downloaded and paid for Duolingo app, spend about 10-15 minutes every morning the last 3 weeks on it learning the basics and some of the subtleties. The boy did some at high school as well.
(However it is a fucking punish sometimes having a wife with an Italian background - she'll just ask us random questions about names or phrases, then get all superior about it. Pardon me for not growing up surrounded by your mother tongue. Jeez... I should have done Russian)
Would have been easier too since you already know Polish
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@nzzp said in Mental Illness.:
@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
Meaning, or purpose, tend to be where people struggle in retirement although structure comes into it as you say.
having had some extended time off, this is what concerns me. I'm really struggling to define my purpose now the major stuff is being checked off ... it's really annoying.
I have a plan which is rather left field given what I do now, but it's something I'm interested in and I'm looking forward to being able to devote myself to it. Specifically trying to take a farm and applying science and IT to it to improve long term management (soil quality, crop rotation etc.)
The underlying benefit is obviously increasing the yield and self sufficiency, but applying everything I've been doing over the last two decades in terms of smart set-up and cooperative farming with in-laws. A place practically off the grid, where friends can visit, base themselves as we do rides, etc. The rest of the time we want to travel.
If I'm honest it's the light at the end of the tunnel given I hate almost everything about IT. So retirement will be about being outdoors, being handy (measure twice, cut thrice), riding bikes, shooting and fishing, and sit on the back deck drinking beer watching sunsets like this
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@nzzp said in Mental Illness.:
@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
If it's "only" annoying you're doing well although I suspect that it is a little more than that. It can be a lot more than that for some. Increase in suicide rate is a bit of a clue and it doesn't really ease up either.
Good comment. Annoying at the moment as I'm deliberately tackling it over the next year or so. If things don't shift, then it goes from annoying to concerning.
Not any expert on this, but the fact you're aware sounds a positive thing.
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@antipodean lots of similarities to what I wanted to do at 39. I then realized I didn’t.
But I do again.
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@MajorRage 'regrets are for people with time machines' - Mrs Antipodean
edit - I'll add to that the discussion about the existence of free will,. If an outcome was predetermined, what's the point in dwelling on the outcome?
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@MajorRage said in Mental Illness.:
@antipodean lots of similarities to what I wanted to do at 39. I then realized I didn’t.
But I do again.
Made me laugh but seems to be what happens!
I've also kind of gone down the @antipodean route. Not the same but a lifestyle choice. Block of land was bought 20 years ago, got diploma in permaculture and eco design type stuff. Eco house now nearly finished. Orchard, gardens still to go in, but a "what next" phase happening. So as of yesterday afternoon, this:
@MajorRage said in Mental Illness.:
Then I went back in
It's different, a bit of both decision, so hopefully I have a different outcome. Sorry to hear that it didn't work out for you MR but of one thing you can be sure - it will all change again. Your later advice may be grim by the way, but it is sage nonetheless.
@MajorRage said in Mental Illness.:
I played golf with a surgeon a while back who has lost a few of his surgeon mates to heart attacks after they abruptly stopped working. He said it all to do with stress hormones and if your body suddenly loses them then heart attack risk goes up exponentially.
Yep. There was a survey done quite some time ago (in Germany I think) of pilots after retirement and a massively disproportionate number died just after stopping (especially for their age). The physiological side of change as you say from chronic stressors. Again it comes down to the wholistic thing of what the brain is up to. Stimulation and ennui are a part of it, you go from one to the other and there are physical consequences obviously. Ennui isn't simply boredom either but I won't go into it now.
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Re your surgeon friend, a connection with the UK police pension scheme. It used to be a brilliant scheme - very generous. How could this be afforded? Well it seems that a disproportional number of police did not last too long in retirement. Research suggested heart problems due to years of adrenaline overdosing. As we all know adrenaline is the fight or flight hormone, but the poor bloody coppers who would get many times the number of adrenaline spurts than the average Joe, rarely get to fight or run away, so a lot of unused adrenaline coursing through the body countless times. Well that’s the theory anyway. Co-incidentally since there has been greater understanding of health and well being in the workplace, the pension scheme has been changed for the worse …
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@Catogrande said in Mental Illness.:
Re your surgeon friend, a connection with the UK police pension scheme. It used to be a brilliant scheme - very generous. How could this be afforded? Well it seems that a disproportional number of police did not last too long in retirement. Research suggested heart problems due to years of adrenaline overdosing. As we all know adrenaline is the fight or flight hormone, but the poor bloody coppers who would get many times the number of adrenaline spurts than the average Joe, rarely get to fight or run away, so a lot of unused adrenaline coursing through the body countless times. Well that’s the theory anyway. Co-incidentally since there has been greater understanding of health and well being in the workplace, the pension scheme has been changed for the worse …
Sadly, that’s basic maths.
That’s why retirement ages pushes up. It’s the right thing to do.
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@Catogrande said in Mental Illness.:
Research suggested heart problems due to years of adrenaline overdosing. As we all know adrenaline is the fight or flight hormone, but the poor bloody coppers who would get many times the number of adrenaline spurts than the average Joe, rarely get to fight or run away, so a lot of unused adrenaline coursing through the body.
Interesting, thanks. I wonder if I sometimes have more adrenaline since I've taken up motorcycling 10 or so years ago.
I'd heard it's a good thing to increase/maintain adrenaline as you get older, but never realised a drop-off can cause problems. Might be a factor in my feeling pretty crap in the winter months when I don't ride or herd the stray cows from my field. Will need to discuss with my cardiologist neighbour- good excuse for a beer anyway.
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@Catogrande Interesting one about the cops and makes perfect sense. Chronic as opposed to acute stressors come into it as well, some of both can be good for us, too much bad. It's all very complicated and everybody is different yet again. A slightly related QI thing about adrenaline is the massive amounts released by sudden abstinence from alcohol by heavy drinkers. Same results as being discussed, very bad for the heart. So, if any of you piss heads decide to just suddenly stop, do it wisely.
Edit: I should add that some of the discussion has mentioned heart "attacks" which isn't necessarily the case. Heart "failure" can be the outcome, so cardio myopathy or suchlike, rather than cardio infarction type thing. There is also atrial flutter or fibrillation which can result. Again a bit complicated and one size doesn't fit all.
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Some really interesting info about early death after retirement. Could it also be in combination with certain people becoming too comfortable in retirement? By that I mean more drinking and endulging and less exercise? A rapid shift in that direction after 30-40 odd years is bound to have an impact.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel that'd be more likely in someone that has done a more physical job I expect?
My old man has been retired for a year now after 40+ years doing the same hard physical job (even now id say his grip and arm strength is still superior to mine)...his health in the past 5 has really deteriorated and I said he'd need to really up the walking and other leisure activities after he retired, sadly his health is affecting his ability to do exactly that.
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@taniwharugby said in Mental Illness.:
@Rancid-Schnitzel that'd be more likely in someone that has done a more physical job I expect?
My old man has been retired for a year now after 40+ years doing the same hard physical job (even now id say his grip and arm strength is still superior to mine)...his health in the past 5 has really deteriorated and I said he'd need to really up the walking and other leisure activities after he retired, sadly his health is affecting his ability to do exactly that.
It would apply to anyone who goes from a highly regimented, pressurised and disciplined existence to the complete opposite.
I think your old man is a common story. My dad aged alot in his first year of retirement but that was because he was spending much of the year living in a flat in Germany. Once he got home to his usual routine he was much better. He does the Suduko every day and always has an activity to do. That's the key I reckon. If he'd just hit the pub and watched TV I don't think he'd be with us any longer.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel my parents have been cruising around NZ for the past 9 months in a caravan, but many places they have gone, he hasn't been able to see properly as he physically cannot walk far enough when walking was required.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Mental Illness.:
It would apply to anyone who goes from a highly regimented, pressurised and disciplined existence to the complete opposite.
Yep. Throw in rigorous medical standards to be met every year, severe restrictions on alcohol intake, etc, (in my case anyway). Remove all that and very easy to do this:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Mental Illness.:
more drinking and endulging and less exercise? A rapid shift in that direction after 30-40 odd years is bound to have an impact.
With the cops there is doughnut withdrawal issues as well.
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@Snowy said in Mental Illness.:
With the cops there is doughnut withdrawal issues as well.
Donuts are so last century. It's McDonalds and coffee now.
