Black Caps v Australia
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I can’t believe I’m saying this but I’d pick Santner over Wagner. Even though he is far from Lyon class he offers more than an extremely non threatening looking Wags.
The days of that terrific pace quartet are gone forever now sadly.
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Australia:
I can’t believe I’m saying this but I’d pick Santner over Wagner. Even though he is far from Lyon class he offers more than an extremely non threatening looking Wags.
He will probably prove me wrong but I feel there is something different about Santner this season. I don't know if there has been a small tweak in his action (it looks a little different to me), but he has been looking more threatening lately. He seems to be bowling slower and he is getting some good drift.
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I can’t believe I’m saying this but I’d pick Santner over Wagner. Even though he is far from Lyon class he offers more than an extremely non threatening looking Wags.
The days of that terrific pace quartet are gone forever now sadly.
@MN5 Unless the pitch obviously favours seam over spin then I'm inclined to agree with you. I think Wags is probably done.
To be honest, about the only chance we have is to prepare a pitch that resembles something in Calcutta and hope that a spin quartet of Santner, Ajaz, Ravindra and Phillips can outbowl Lyon and the Aussie part-timers.
But, then, we haven't even picked Ajaz (which is interesting in itself). Seems like Santner is now the No. 1 spinner in all formats. I wonder whether his batting is the decisive point in tests?
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@MN5 Unless the pitch obviously favours seam over spin then I'm inclined to agree with you. I think Wags is probably done.
To be honest, about the only chance we have is to prepare a pitch that resembles something in Calcutta and hope that a spin quartet of Santner, Ajaz, Ravindra and Phillips can outbowl Lyon and the Aussie part-timers.
But, then, we haven't even picked Ajaz (which is interesting in itself). Seems like Santner is now the No. 1 spinner in all formats. I wonder whether his batting is the decisive point in tests?
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Australia:
@MN5 Unless the pitch obviously favours seam over spin then I'm inclined to agree with you. I think Wags is probably done.
To be honest, about the only chance we have is to prepare a pitch that resembles something in Calcutta and hope that a spin quartet of Santner, Ajaz, Ravindra and Phillips can outbowl Lyon and the Aussie part-timers.
But, then, we haven't even picked Ajaz (which is interesting in itself). Seems like Santner is now the No. 1 spinner in all formats. I wonder whether his batting is the decisive point in tests?
Surely, he doesn’t have ten wickets in an innings to fall back on after all.
If he plays that means Henry bats nine, every time I turned on the radio the commentators went on about Henry not being an eight which I think is harsh for a guy averaging in the early 20s with four half centuries.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Australia:
@MN5 Unless the pitch obviously favours seam over spin then I'm inclined to agree with you. I think Wags is probably done.
To be honest, about the only chance we have is to prepare a pitch that resembles something in Calcutta and hope that a spin quartet of Santner, Ajaz, Ravindra and Phillips can outbowl Lyon and the Aussie part-timers.
But, then, we haven't even picked Ajaz (which is interesting in itself). Seems like Santner is now the No. 1 spinner in all formats. I wonder whether his batting is the decisive point in tests?
Surely, he doesn’t have ten wickets in an innings to fall back on after all.
If he plays that means Henry bats nine, every time I turned on the radio the commentators went on about Henry not being an eight which I think is harsh for a guy averaging in the early 20s with four half centuries.
@MN5 https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/new-zealand-in-bangladesh-2023-24-1395688/bangladesh-vs-new-zealand-2nd-test-1395704/full-scorecard
Ajaz's last test, you'd say he outbowled Mitch.
On the other hand, in three home tests Ajaz has never taken a wicket.
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@MN5 https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/new-zealand-in-bangladesh-2023-24-1395688/bangladesh-vs-new-zealand-2nd-test-1395704/full-scorecard
Ajaz's last test, you'd say he outbowled Mitch.
On the other hand, in three home tests Ajaz has never taken a wicket.
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Australia:
@MN5 https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/new-zealand-in-bangladesh-2023-24-1395688/bangladesh-vs-new-zealand-2nd-test-1395704/full-scorecard
Ajaz's last test, you'd say he outbowled Mitch.
On the other hand, in three home tests Ajaz has never taken a wicket.
The times they are a changing with no Boult, Jamieson and Wags surely on the way out.
The spinners are really looking like feasible options when they couldn’t get a look in previously ( fair enough too, SBWJ were on fire a couple of years back )
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I can’t believe I’m saying this but I’d pick Santner over Wagner. Even though he is far from Lyon class he offers more than an extremely non threatening looking Wags.
The days of that terrific pace quartet are gone forever now sadly.
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Australia:
I can’t believe I’m saying this but I’d pick Santner over Wagner. Even though he is far from Lyon class he offers more than an extremely non threatening looking Wags.
The days of that terrific pace quartet are gone forever now sadly.
Yep I would to he might tie down an end,Wagner and Southee you can not pick two Medium pacers hitting around 130ks against Australia, a Bowling machine would be more threatening.
Santner brings a point of difference, -
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Australia:
I can’t believe I’m saying this but I’d pick Santner over Wagner. Even though he is far from Lyon class he offers more than an extremely non threatening looking Wags.
He will probably prove me wrong but I feel there is something different about Santner this season. I don't know if there has been a small tweak in his action (it looks a little different to me), but he has been looking more threatening lately. He seems to be bowling slower and he is getting some good drift.
@Crazy-Horse said in Black Caps v Australia:
He will probably prove me wrong but I feel there is something different about Santner this season
He's definitely bowling with more flight and guile
In 2 tests he has 12 wickets at an average of 17.4.
He was also Black Caps highest wicket taker at the World Cup in India with 16.
"I felt like I was getting too quick at the crease, and getting a bit long. It was through, I guess, a lot of white-ball bowling," he said. "But I've gone the other way now: tried to give it a rip again, and [go a] little bit slow at the crease, and get my momentum from the crease. That's what I tried to do at the World Cup... and it has flown into my red-ball bowling." -
Henry might also be in doubt for the test series as he has been replaced for the T20Is.
Matt Henry and Tim Seifert have been ruled out of the upcoming KFC T20I series against Australia and will be replaced by Ben Sears and Will Young.
Henry suffered some hip soreness following the 2nd Test against South Africa in Hamilton and will require a short period of rest and strengthening to ensure he is fit for the Tegel Test series against Australia later in the month.
Seifert has been withdrawn from the squad due to a torn abductor suffered while training for Northern Districts earlier in the week.
https://www.nzc.nz/news-items/henry-seifert-ruled-out-of-australia-t20is-sears-and-young-called-in/
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I don't think any of the Aussie batman are shaking in their boots at the prospect of facing any of the bowlers NZ have selected to be honest.
@1kiwi said in Black Caps v Australia:
I don't think any of the Aussie batman are shaking in their boots at the prospect of facing any of the bowlers NZ have selected to be honest.
I caught a bit of the discussion on the radio and they pointed out in the old “who would make a combined team” only KW would.
I’d add Daryl Mitchell but can’t think of anyone else to be honest.
The rest of our good players have an Aussie counterpart who is better. Even at their best it would be a stretch to pick Wags or Southee over the Australian pace bowlers.
Latham and Conways form speaks for itself, it would have been a discussion point 2 or 3 years ago though.
This really makes us underdogs which I am quite comfortable with
Also last time I made this comparison with England ( I think the Black Caps won about 8-3 ) we lost the series 3-0 over there so given things are so far the other way a Black Caps victory by 2-0 is all but assured.
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I think Patel is probably a better spinner than Santner but he is definitely a number 11 which gives Santner the edge in NZ conditions. In Asian conditions (or even the West Indies) maybe Patel would have the edge but then they are probably both going to be playing anyway in those conditions.
Sodhi is probably unlikely to play another given we now have two batsmen who can bowl spin and seem to take regular wickets (hopefully this is not just beginners lucK).
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@MN5 Unless the pitch obviously favours seam over spin then I'm inclined to agree with you. I think Wags is probably done.
To be honest, about the only chance we have is to prepare a pitch that resembles something in Calcutta and hope that a spin quartet of Santner, Ajaz, Ravindra and Phillips can outbowl Lyon and the Aussie part-timers.
But, then, we haven't even picked Ajaz (which is interesting in itself). Seems like Santner is now the No. 1 spinner in all formats. I wonder whether his batting is the decisive point in tests?
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@booboo said in Black Caps v Australia:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Australia:
Wags is probably done.
Unfortunately I think so too
Yep.
however,
We Loves Wags -
With Wags nearing the end, Southee likely to follow and Jamieson forever injured, what does our seam bowling attack look like moving forward?
Henry and Will’O, who’s next?
Will we be stuck with a place holder (experienced consistent first class bowler like Kuggelijn/Tickner) until the next young fulla is ready?
Who are our next generation of bowlers?
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@booboo said in Black Caps v Australia:
Fuck
https://twitter.com/BLACKCAPS/status/1758590504881574189?t=LBDfBiimvnrz69atAEbgKw&s=19
Starting to look like Jacob Oram in disguise. Just can't get him out on the field enough right now
@canefan said in Black Caps v Australia:
@booboo said in Black Caps v Australia:
Fuck
https://twitter.com/BLACKCAPS/status/1758590504881574189?t=LBDfBiimvnrz69atAEbgKw&s=19
Starting to look like
Jacob OramShane Bond in disguise. Just can't get him out on the field enough right nowFixed it. Jamieson isnt quite the X-factor bowler that Bond was but he could have been the spear head of our next generation of bowlers. With Boult preferring T20, Wagner and Southee nearing the end of their careers he could have taken over the main bowling role
still can i suppose but generally bowlers who struggle with back injuries never get over them. -
@canefan said in Black Caps v Australia:
@booboo said in Black Caps v Australia:
Fuck
https://twitter.com/BLACKCAPS/status/1758590504881574189?t=LBDfBiimvnrz69atAEbgKw&s=19
Starting to look like
Jacob OramShane Bond in disguise. Just can't get him out on the field enough right nowFixed it. Jamieson isnt quite the X-factor bowler that Bond was but he could have been the spear head of our next generation of bowlers. With Boult preferring T20, Wagner and Southee nearing the end of their careers he could have taken over the main bowling role
still can i suppose but generally bowlers who struggle with back injuries never get over them.@Virgil said in Black Caps v Australia:
@canefan said in Black Caps v Australia:
@booboo said in Black Caps v Australia:
Fuck
https://twitter.com/BLACKCAPS/status/1758590504881574189?t=LBDfBiimvnrz69atAEbgKw&s=19
Starting to look like
Jacob OramShane Bond in disguise. Just can't get him out on the field enough right nowFixed it. Jamieson isnt quite the X-factor bowler that Bond was but he could have been the spear head of our next generation of bowlers. With Boult preferring T20, Wagner and Southee nearing the end of their careers he could have taken over the main bowling role
still can i suppose but generally bowlers who struggle with back injuries never get over them.Jamieson has taken 80 wickets at 19.73 in 19 tests which is beyond World class. Bond took 87 at 22.09 in 18 tests which is sensational. Jamieson has taken less but fair to point out he had better competition to get the wickets in SBW.
But jeepers, is that the price we have to pay for having brilliant performers ? Utter World class brilliance vs periods of constantly breaking down ?
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Feel for Jamieson, he just can't seem to get a lucky break - only bad ones
We had a golden period with Southee and Boult being able to hold everything together but but our attack seems rather thin. Again we will have to hope that Williamson moves mountains once more so we can bat time and post decent totals.
