All Blacks 2024
-
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris I agree with what you're saying, and I'm happy to have a Tuipulotu, Stange, Vaai
That lot aren't going to scare anyone. Doubt they would make any other tier 1 team.
@akan004 They're not, but as stop gap measures, they'll do.
-
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chris I agree with what you're saying, and I'm happy to have a Tuipulotu, Stange, Vaai as a stop gap measure until someone better comes along such as Holland to go with Barrett and Lord.
We have to play without Whitelock eventually, why not start the process now?
Maybe Whitelock in the environment they see valuable where they could add a youngster to the squad, who better to learn off than Whitelock
Maybe use him to bring on the younger locks bring them in to camp at times.
Maybe more to it than the playing side and maybe that is their thinking over BB.
All speculation but I see merits in it.@Chris Fair point, and we all love Whitelock, I personally would like to see us move on but as you said, on the other end of the argument, there are merits to it as well.
-
You know I almost thought Razor would have registered enough credit in the bank (based off his resume & history of proven success at every level - when compared to Foster) so for people to question his decisions before the All Blacks have even played a single game yet seems odd to me. At least when Foster was appointed in 2020 most of us actually gave him a chance to prove us all wrong (based on results) in his first season - so we could then made a fair judgment of his decisions. Yet people on here are already spouting off on here with such conviction that this decision by Razor is objectively the wrong one when we haven't even seen the outcomes yet, lol.
-
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
> So the rules are all made up and don't really follow any rhyme or reason.
Which sums up NZR at the moment quite succiently.
Well it sums uo a forum, we don't really know what happened at negotiating times etc, but we can pretend.
See Perenara's and BB were actually quite different, BB had signed with NZR before he went to Japan, where as TJ was wondering about going to league.Well, the rules are ostensibly quite clear - it's just that players are now negotiating their way out of having to follow them.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
> So the rules are all made up and don't really follow any rhyme or reason.
Which sums up NZR at the moment quite succiently.
Well it sums uo a forum, we don't really know what happened at negotiating times etc, but we can pretend.
See Perenara's and BB were actually quite different, BB had signed with NZR before he went to Japan, where as TJ was wondering about going to league.Well, the rules are ostensibly quite clear - it's just that players are now negotiating their way out of having to follow them.
Personally think evry rule should be reasonably flexible mate, well I think so anyway.
-
If your spending time now on a player that isn't going to be there in 4 years time then all you are doing is wasting time you could have spent developing another player.
I think the rugby pubic would be more than understanding if we lose a few games but can see a clear developement pathway for new players.
Bringing back old war horses and loosing will not go down well.
I think Rassie said it right and it was something along the lines of "we'd love to have an 80% winning percentage, but in the years between the RWC you've got to select and take risks on young, new players". I presume so you can build the best team you can by the time the RWC rolls around.
-
You know I almost thought Razor would have registered enough credit in the bank (based off his resume & history of proven success at every level - when compared to Foster) so for people to question his decisions before the All Blacks have even played a single game yet seems odd to me. At least when Foster was appointed in 2020 most of us actually gave him a chance to prove us all wrong (based on results) in his first season - so we could then made a fair judgment of his decisions. Yet people on here are already spouting off on here with such conviction that this decision by Razor is objectively the wrong one when we haven't even seen the outcomes yet, lol.
@ruggabee said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
You know I almost thought Razor would have registered enough credit in the bank (based off his resume & history of proven success at every level - when compared to Foster) so for people to question his desisions before the All Blacks have even played a single game yet seems odd to me. At least when Foster was appointed in 2020 most of us actually gave him a chance to prove us all wrong (based on results) in his first season - so we could then made a fair judgment of his decisions. Yet people on here are already spouting off on here with such conviction that this decision by Razor is objectively the wrong one when we haven't even seen the outcomes yet, lol.
Yep well said.
-
im determined to reserve judgement until i see the first squad and first result
the press is more likely to report on the contact with these old crusaders...and whilst im sure he is keeping tabs on them all....it doesn't mean he's not also in contact with all the young guys playing super rugby
Razor has always struck me as a hard worker so i wouldnt be surprised to hear there is a lot of stuff not being reported
-
So watching rugby live is the only way to properly watch rugby and analyse it?
-
If your spending time now on a player that isn't going to be there in 4 years time then all you are doing is wasting time you could have spent developing another player.
I think the rugby pubic would be more than understanding if we lose a few games but can see a clear developement pathway for new players.
Bringing back old war horses and loosing will not go down well.
I think Rassie said it right and it was something along the lines of "we'd love to have an 80% winning percentage, but in the years between the RWC you've got to select and take risks on young, new players". I presume so you can build the best team you can by the time the RWC rolls around.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Bringing back old war horses and loosing will not go down well.
Yep SA was full of those in their last 2 WC winning squads not a heap of newbies,especially in the tight five.
-
You know I almost thought Razor would have registered enough credit in the bank (based off his resume & history of proven success at every level - when compared to Foster) so for people to question his decisions before the All Blacks have even played a single game yet seems odd to me. At least when Foster was appointed in 2020 most of us actually gave him a chance to prove us all wrong (based on results) in his first season - so we could then made a fair judgment of his decisions. Yet people on here are already spouting off on here with such conviction that this decision by Razor is objectively the wrong one when we haven't even seen the outcomes yet, lol.
@ruggabee said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
At least when Foster was appointed in 2020 most of us actually gave him a chance to prove us all wrong (based on results) in his first season - so we could then made a fair judgment of his decisions.
lol you weren't here in late 2019 were you?
The torches and pitchforks were out from day 1 (us Chiefs guys only had to dust them off from 2011)
The AB coach is the shittest job in rugby, and surf jesus knew it when he took the job
You are expected to win every test and every trophy available
You are expected to pick the bet team every test
You are expected to develop depth at the same time as playing the top team
You are expected to not only win, but win by a lot, and play pretty rugby
(add in, depending on who your assistants are, if you win it's because of their input, if you lose it's your fault)And anyone who thinks it isn't true doesn't spend any time on any rugby media at all
-
@ruggabee said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
At least when Foster was appointed in 2020 most of us actually gave him a chance to prove us all wrong (based on results) in his first season - so we could then made a fair judgment of his decisions.
lol you weren't here in late 2019 were you?
The torches and pitchforks were out from day 1 (us Chiefs guys only had to dust them off from 2011)
The AB coach is the shittest job in rugby, and surf jesus knew it when he took the job
You are expected to win every test and every trophy available
You are expected to pick the bet team every test
You are expected to develop depth at the same time as playing the top team
You are expected to not only win, but win by a lot, and play pretty rugby
(add in, depending on who your assistants are, if you win it's because of their input, if you lose it's your fault)And anyone who thinks it isn't true doesn't spend any time on any rugby media at all
@mariner4life Yeah Fozzie certainly got no free ride, he was abused from all angles before his first test in charge haha.
-
Agree with others it's pretty concerning that Razor is focusing so much on players in the twilight of their career, even those already overseas. He's meant to be the young innovative coach that gets teams playing greater than the sum of their parts, Foster was meant to be the coach that couldn't move on from aging players. Suggests to me that Razor is worried about the big expectations on him (same as any AB coach) and so he is wanting some insurance from players that have been there before. His lack of international experience showing through perhaps.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ruggabee said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
At least when Foster was appointed in 2020 most of us actually gave him a chance to prove us all wrong (based on results) in his first season - so we could then made a fair judgment of his decisions.
lol you weren't here in late 2019 were you?
The torches and pitchforks were out from day 1 (us Chiefs guys only had to dust them off from 2011)
That was more people feeling disgruntled that Foster got the job due to cronyism/nepotism, at least the current coach got the job based on merit.
-
@taniwharugby No not the only way, but you do pick up a lot of stuff (especially off the ball activity/movement and positional play) that the camera's misses.
@Windows97 only if you spend your time watching 1 player...
They would have access to all the cameras giving them a far better ability to analyse players work on and off the ball, especially with the software they nno.dount have as well
-
@Chris said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
No different than Barrett coming back although he is well past it at least Whitelock was and still is performing.
It is obvious the coaching staff do not rate the locking stocks playing in this country very highly ,maybe it is stop gap for a couple of years until the young ones develop and harden up a bit more.
Lock is one position the older harder players seem to dominate.
Vaai is not a test lock,Holland isn't available yet,Lord is coming through but is injured a lot.
Parkinson,Strange,Darry,MSR,IWL not test options in my opinion.Looks a bit bare to meI would rate Justin Sangster, Naitoa Ah Kuoi, Zach Gallagher, Josh Beehre, over those locks.
Strange (especially - he's never been anything above average, even at Super level.)
@ruggabee said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Strange (especially - he's never been anything above average, even at Super level.)
But for an injury, he would already be an AB. I agree with your point though.
So Dane can expect a call soon? The options/depth/quality at hooker aren't any better than at lock.
-
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Yeah you want your war horses in the RWC year - not in the year after the RWC.
Not the point more up sides to young players learning off Whitelock a real test lock than Vaai pretending to be one.
Short sighted not looking at the potential overall long term benefits. -
If your spending time now on a player that isn't going to be there in 4 years time then all you are doing is wasting time you could have spent developing another player.
I think the rugby pubic would be more than understanding if we lose a few games but can see a clear developement pathway for new players.
Bringing back old war horses and loosing will not go down well.
I think Rassie said it right and it was something along the lines of "we'd love to have an 80% winning percentage, but in the years between the RWC you've got to select and take risks on young, new players". I presume so you can build the best team you can by the time the RWC rolls around.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
If your spending time now on a player that isn't going to be there in 4 years time then all you are doing is wasting time you could have spent developing another player.
I think the rugby pubic would be more than understanding if we lose a few games but can see a clear developement pathway for new players.
Bringing back old war horses and loosing will not go down well.
I think Rassie said it right and it was something along the lines of "we'd love to have an 80% winning percentage, but in the years between the RWC you've got to select and take risks on young, new players". I presume so you can build the best team you can by the time the RWC rolls around.
Since when have we become SA and only cared about the RWC? Our expectations as a rugby nation has always been higher than theirs. The aim should still be to win ever test, that's what the ABs legacy is built on.
While I don't necessarily agree with Whitelock coming back, surely people should be able to see the logic behind it.
As for Rassie, this is the guy who picked two 37 year olds last year in Vermualen and Fourie, so he clearly values experience.
-
-
The chat on here seems like a bit of an overreaction to Whitelock coming back to NZ.
We could use the experience - especially at lock.
Sounds good to me.
Whitelock could be a nice bridge until the new brigade are ready/eligible (Holland, Hannah, Beehre etc etc)
