Super Rugby 2024
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@sparky said in Super Rugby 2024:
I think the Blues will win the competition this year. They have a top coach in Cotter and a very talented squad. They also have lots of players on top of their game and no obvious weaknesses.
This season will probably end in tears for the Canes. That said, I'm going to enjoy every moment of the Hurricanes doing so well for how ever long it lasts.
Blues are looking like Champions at the moment. But I rate this Canes team.
Excellent front & back rows. Quality locks. Quality backs except maybe at 1st 5 (this is our biggest concern plus injuries to key players)
But like you I'm just enjoying week by week. The Blues made the Brumbies look 2nd rate so see what the Canes do next week
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@sparky said in Super Rugby 2024:
What's the difference between the Hurricanes and the Crusaders?
Currently it's 11 places in the Super Rugby table.
Happy days!
Time still left though
But so far it seems to show what a difference coaches make
Maybe Robertson in part did so well because the other NZ teams all had limited coaches. The Canes were coached by clowns but maybe MacDonald was only good compared to Tana. And the favourites (Chiefs) are fading now and the Highlanders look like they need to find new coaches.
Surely you are aware that Razor took over in 2017 right? that means he got the better of Dave Rennie, Tony Brown, John Plumtree, Chris Boyd, Swys de Bruin, Johan Ackerman, Gonzalo Quesada, Warren Gatland, Clayton McMillan, etc..
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@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@sparky said in Super Rugby 2024:
What's the difference between the Hurricanes and the Crusaders?
Currently it's 11 places in the Super Rugby table.
Happy days!
Time still left though
But so far it seems to show what a difference coaches make
Maybe Robertson in part did so well because the other NZ teams all had limited coaches. The Canes were coached by clowns but maybe MacDonald was only good compared to Tana. And the favourites (Chiefs) are fading now and the Highlanders look like they need to find new coaches.
Surely you are aware that Razor took over in 2017 right? that means he got the better of Dave Rennie, Tony Brown, John Plumtree, Chris Boyd, Swys de Bruin, Johan Ackerman, Gonzalo Quesada, Warren Gatland, Clayton McMillan, etc..
@ruggabee said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@sparky said in Super Rugby 2024:
What's the difference between the Hurricanes and the Crusaders?
Currently it's 11 places in the Super Rugby table.
Happy days!
Time still left though
But so far it seems to show what a difference coaches make
Maybe Robertson in part did so well because the other NZ teams all had limited coaches. The Canes were coached by clowns but maybe MacDonald was only good compared to Tana. And the favourites (Chiefs) are fading now and the Highlanders look like they need to find new coaches.
Surely you are aware that Razor took over in 2017 right? that means he got the better of Dave Rennie, Tony Brown, John Plumtree, Chris Boyd, Swys de Bruin, Johan Ackerman, Gonzalo Quesada, Warren Gatland, Clayton McMillan, etc..
Razor just coached against mugs? Wow that is another ice cold take right there
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@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@sparky said in Super Rugby 2024:
What's the difference between the Hurricanes and the Crusaders?
Currently it's 11 places in the Super Rugby table.
Happy days!
Time still left though
But so far it seems to show what a difference coaches make
Maybe Robertson in part did so well because the other NZ teams all had limited coaches. The Canes were coached by clowns but maybe MacDonald was only good compared to Tana. And the favourites (Chiefs) are fading now and the Highlanders look like they need to find new coaches.
Surely you are aware that Razor took over in 2017 right? that means he got the better of Dave Rennie, Tony Brown, John Plumtree, Chris Boyd, Swys de Bruin, Johan Ackerman, Gonzalo Quesada, Warren Gatland, Clayton McMillan, etc..
@ruggabee said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@sparky said in Super Rugby 2024:
What's the difference between the Hurricanes and the Crusaders?
Currently it's 11 places in the Super Rugby table.
Happy days!
Time still left though
But so far it seems to show what a difference coaches make
Maybe Robertson in part did so well because the other NZ teams all had limited coaches. The Canes were coached by clowns but maybe MacDonald was only good compared to Tana. And the favourites (Chiefs) are fading now and the Highlanders look like they need to find new coaches.
Surely you are aware that Razor took over in 2017 right? that means he got the better of Dave Rennie, Tony Brown, John Plumtree, Chris Boyd, Swys de Bruin, Johan Ackerman, Gonzalo Quesada, Warren Gatland, Clayton McMillan, etc..
Everyone got the better of Gatland. Plumtree was never a great head coach. Only a VG assistant until he wasn't anymore. Brown lacked quality players.
Razor took over a VG team that was held back by a limited coach. He is obviously a top coach but it was made easier for him that the other NZ teams I don't think had great coaches. Certainly, the Canes didn't after Boyd was (it seems) forced out and Plumtree rated Blackwell his number 1 lock (I thought he had lost it). And then ever worse when he left
The main team (Blues) was coached by Tana (adequate at best) and then MacDonald (ok but not great). Clayton limitations (still time to go) may be shown up this year.
The Canes have shown what a huge difference top (as opposed to poor) coaches make. The Blues seem likewise. Although McDonald was better than Holland
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@ruggabee said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@sparky said in Super Rugby 2024:
What's the difference between the Hurricanes and the Crusaders?
Currently it's 11 places in the Super Rugby table.
Happy days!
Time still left though
But so far it seems to show what a difference coaches make
Maybe Robertson in part did so well because the other NZ teams all had limited coaches. The Canes were coached by clowns but maybe MacDonald was only good compared to Tana. And the favourites (Chiefs) are fading now and the Highlanders look like they need to find new coaches.
Surely you are aware that Razor took over in 2017 right? that means he got the better of Dave Rennie, Tony Brown, John Plumtree, Chris Boyd, Swys de Bruin, Johan Ackerman, Gonzalo Quesada, Warren Gatland, Clayton McMillan, etc..
Everyone got the better of Gatland. Plumtree was never a great head coach. Only a VG assistant until he wasn't anymore. Brown lacked quality players.
Razor took over a VG team that was held back by a limited coach. He is obviously a top coach but it was made easier for him that the other NZ teams I don't think had great coaches. Certainly, the Canes didn't after Boyd was (it seems) forced out and Plumtree rated Blackwell his number 1 lock (I thought he had lost it). And then ever worse when he left
The main team (Blues) was coached by Tana (adequate at best) and then MacDonald (ok but not great). Clayton limitations (still time to go) may be shown up this year.
The Canes have shown what a huge difference top (as opposed to poor) coaches make. The Blues seem likewise. Although McDonald was better than Holland
@Winger I just listed a few guys who've coached at a level higher than Super Rugby, didn't give an endorsement of them, although Quesada, Brown, Rennie, McMillan are probably world-class eh?
Having said that don't you recognise the circular logic when saying 'it was made easier' for Razor that 'the other NZ teams I don't think had great coaches', when you could use the exact same reasoning to discredit Laidlaw's current success - because by your own admission (with the exception of Cotter) the other NZ coaches he's gone up against 'aren't great'.
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I think the Blues will win the competition this year. They have a top coach in Cotter and a very talented squad. They also have lots of players on top of their game and no obvious weaknesses.
This season will probably end in tears for the Canes. That said, I'm going to enjoy every moment of the Hurricanes doing so well for how ever long it lasts.
@sparky said in Super Rugby 2024:
I think the Blues will win the competition this year. They have a top coach in Cotter and a very talented squad. They also have lots of players on top of their game and no obvious weaknesses.
This season will probably end in tears for the Canes. That said, I'm going to enjoy every moment of the Hurricanes doing so well for how ever long it lasts.
Have a little faith mate, we've literally made the best start to a season in our history and you're already saying it will end in tears. The Blues have as much PTSD from falling in the playoffs as we do so it won't be necessarily smooth sailing for them either.
I honestly think whoever gets home advantage through the playoff stages will win it, there isn't much between the Canes and Blues for me. The Canes are just as settled as the Blues with proven combinations right across the park which is crucial.
The match on May 11 between both sides is going to be huge. Whoever wins that might not necessarily win the title, but it will be a huge steppingstone to hopefully greater things.
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@Winger I just listed a few guys who've coached at a level higher than Super Rugby, didn't give an endorsement of them, although Quesada, Brown, Rennie, McMillan are probably world-class eh?
Having said that don't you recognise the circular logic when saying 'it was made easier' for Razor that 'the other NZ teams I don't think had great coaches', when you could use the exact same reasoning to discredit Laidlaw's current success - because by your own admission (with the exception of Cotter) the other NZ coaches he's gone up against 'aren't great'.
@ruggabee said in Super Rugby 2024:
when you could use the exact same reasoning to discredit Laidlaw's current success - because by your own admission (with the exception of Cotter)
I didn't discredit Robertson performance. I just said it may have been a factor in his 7 victories
Great teams need quality players and a top coach. If there is only one team that fits into this category it is easier for that team to look great (by winning year after year). However, if there are 2 or three not so easy.
My view esp in recent years it was a one team only factor. Clayton was (easily) the best of the rest in NZ but he failed badly last year.
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Updating those Aus v NZ stats after the weekend. Three more games, two more Aussie wins. Every Aussie side now has at least one win against a NZ side now
Aussie Team Matches vs NZ Sides Wins vs NZ sides Brumbies 3 1 Force 3 1 Reds 3 2 Rebels 2 1 Waratahs 4 2 Total 15 7 Aussies vs Matches Aussies Wins Blues 3 0 Chiefs 2 1 Hurricanes 3 0 Crusaders 3 3 Highlanders 4 3 Total 15 7 Maybe this table should be split into North Island and South Island. The Chiefs letting down the North Island
Highlanders the best of the South with the only win vs an Aussie side. Overall 7 SI games against Aussies and 6 losses
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I would be interested to see a breakdown of tries by forwards vs backs for the teams. Blues fatties seem to get a lot of meat pies, just interesting if they are any different to the Canes for example.
@chimoaus said in Super Rugby 2024:
I would be interested to see a breakdown of tries by forwards vs backs for the teams. Blues fatties seem to get a lot of meat pies, just interesting if they are any different to the Canes for example.
I just had a skim of the Blues try scorers. After Hoskins and Tele'a it's Funaki with 4. Then a bunch of players with 3 (Clarke, Sullivan, Ofa, Riccitelli)
It doesn't seem that skewed towards forwards
The Blues do score a lot from long phases (7+) though. Canes more from first phase
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@ruggabee said in Super Rugby 2024:
when you could use the exact same reasoning to discredit Laidlaw's current success - because by your own admission (with the exception of Cotter)
I didn't discredit Robertson performance. I just said it may have been a factor in his 7 victories
Great teams need quality players and a top coach. If there is only one team that fits into this category it is easier for that team to look great (by winning year after year). However, if there are 2 or three not so easy.
My view esp in recent years it was a one team only factor. Clayton was (easily) the best of the rest in NZ but he failed badly last year.
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@ruggabee said in Super Rugby 2024:
when you could use the exact same reasoning to discredit Laidlaw's current success - because by your own admission (with the exception of Cotter)
My view esp in recent years it was a one team only factor. Clayton was (easily) the best of the rest in NZ but he failed badly last year.
So McMillan's Chiefs dominated the regular season, cleared the next best team (Crusaders) by 11 competition points, finished up winning 15/17 games in total - but according to you that's 'failing badly'.
McMillian is the most successful Chiefs coach ever, with a 73% win rate, the next best is Rennie at 68%.
https://www.rugbydatabase.co.nz/team/coachList.php?teamId=5
Rennie only managed identical success to McMillan for 2 seasons while Wayne Smith was his assistant. The seasons after Smith left Rennie averaged between 6-8 losses including playoffs each season, compared to 2-4 while Smith was his assistant 2012/13.
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Ben Grant. I thought he did well enough but 16 tackles
Brad Shields has been in great form. A lot more consistent so far since his return. And at 33 years.
4 Ben Grant (Hurricanes): A classic tight five outing for the second-row who made a whopping 16 tackles whilst commanding the line-out taking all his throws and stealing one from the Drua. His complete performance gets in ahead of powerhouse Blues veteran Patrick Tuipulotu.
3 Santiago Medrano (Western Force): Most important wins are ‘propped’ up by the big men up front and that was the case when the Argentine ran in 14 tackles around a solid set-piece effort against the Crusaders.
2 Ricky Riccitelli (Blues): The prolific hooker was on the scoresheet yet again in another high-standard outing as he formed part of a pack that demolished the Brumbies. The Aucklander also got a try assist while nailing the set-piece.
1 Tevita Mafileo (Hurricanes): Another outstanding defensive effort from the ‘Canes loosehead who managed 14 tackles while never taking a foot back in the scrums. Mafileo looks to have entered a rich vein of form.
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Wallaby Jordie Petaia is in doubt for the rest of the Super Rugby season, and potentially Australia’s Test series against Wales, after suffering a shoulder dislocation in the Queensland Reds’ 31-0 win over the Highlanders in Brisbane.
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Wallaby Jordie Petaia is in doubt for the rest of the Super Rugby season, and potentially Australia’s Test series against Wales, after suffering a shoulder dislocation in the Queensland Reds’ 31-0 win over the Highlanders in Brisbane.
@Daffy-Jaffy poor bloke is made of glass
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Ben Grant. I thought he did well enough but 16 tackles
Brad Shields has been in great form. A lot more consistent so far since his return. And at 33 years.
4 Ben Grant (Hurricanes): A classic tight five outing for the second-row who made a whopping 16 tackles whilst commanding the line-out taking all his throws and stealing one from the Drua. His complete performance gets in ahead of powerhouse Blues veteran Patrick Tuipulotu.
3 Santiago Medrano (Western Force): Most important wins are ‘propped’ up by the big men up front and that was the case when the Argentine ran in 14 tackles around a solid set-piece effort against the Crusaders.
2 Ricky Riccitelli (Blues): The prolific hooker was on the scoresheet yet again in another high-standard outing as he formed part of a pack that demolished the Brumbies. The Aucklander also got a try assist while nailing the set-piece.
1 Tevita Mafileo (Hurricanes): Another outstanding defensive effort from the ‘Canes loosehead who managed 14 tackles while never taking a foot back in the scrums. Mafileo looks to have entered a rich vein of form.
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
4 Ben Grant (Hurricanes): A classic tight five outing for the second-row who made a whopping 16 tackles whilst commanding the line-out taking all his throws and stealing one from the Drua. His complete performance gets in ahead of powerhouse Blues veteran Patrick Tuipulotu.
I like the look of Grant, he looks to have a bit more size on him compared to when he was with the Legion last year in the MLR. He performed his role well and even stole a couple lineouts from the Drua. Not a bad guy to have in your squad tbh, would prefer him to Josh Tuala.
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@Tim the person manning the odds is obviously a Chiefs fan. How are they equal with the Blues and Canes?
@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Tim the person manning the odds is obviously a Chiefs fan. How are they equal with the Blues and Canes?
That's not how betting odds work.
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@Canes4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Tim the person manning the odds is obviously a Chiefs fan. How are they equal with the Blues and Canes?
That's not how betting odds work.
@Bones lol I know, still, how are the Chiefs still at even odds with the Blues and Canes? Doesn't really make sense to me. Recent results would suggest they'd be paying slightly higher. The bookmakers haven't adjusted the Chiefs odds for a few games now.
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@Bones lol I know, still, how are the Chiefs still at even odds with the Blues and Canes? Doesn't really make sense to me. Recent results would suggest they'd be paying slightly higher. The bookmakers haven't adjusted the Chiefs odds for a few games now.
@Canes4life "the" bookmakers are trying to make money.
