All Blacks 2024
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@DaGrubster I wouldn't mind seeing a 6. Finau 7. Savea and 8. Sotutu loose trio go to work.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@DaGrubster I wouldn't mind seeing a 6. Finau 7. Savea and 8. Sotutu loose trio go to work.
Not sure on that balance. I’m not convinced Sotutu and Savea can be in the same starting trio as their roles are so similar. Maybe late in a game.
Savea has gone well with Cane next to him. There is a similar balance at the Blues with Papalii at 7 and Sotutu at 8
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@DaGrubster I wouldn't mind seeing a 6. Finau 7. Savea and 8. Sotutu loose trio go to work.
Not sure on that balance. I’m not convinced Sotutu and Savea can be in the same starting trio as their roles are so similar. Maybe late in a game.
Savea has gone well with Cane next to him. There is a similar balance at the Blues with Papalii at 7 and Sotutu at 8
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Savea has gone well with Cane next to him.
Ehhhh mostly. Our lineout got weakened by it, and Cane was a largely one dimensional tackling machine. Superb human being, and a warrior, but we discussed it ad nauseam that picking both of them meant you needed Thor or Jesus at 6.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Savea has gone well with Cane next to him.
Ehhhh mostly. Our lineout got weakened by it, and Cane was a largely one dimensional tackling machine. Superb human being, and a warrior, but we discussed it ad nauseam that picking both of them meant you needed Thor or Jesus at 6.
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We have been saddled by stuck in the mud selections and misplaced loyalty for far too long. Last 4 years has been painful
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We have been saddled by stuck in the mud selections and misplaced loyalty for far too long. Last 4 years has been painful
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
We have been saddled by stuck in the mud selections and misplaced loyalty for far too long. Last 4 years has been painful
Yep, and by quoting percentage wins (Ritchie's win record) or 2020~ form in black (Akira, Sotutu), I am not sure it is so relevant moving forward. Having said that, I don't think selections were the previous coaching group's biggest problem. They always seemed to reward Super rugby form (Lack of "deep analysis"?)
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@nzzp yeah not saying it was perfect but Savea was allowed to play the way does by having a hard working 7 next to him. If you have Sotutu and Savea in the same trio you are asking Savea to play a very different game
@Duluth Exactly right, hence why Cane and Frizzell were constantly picked, so they could tackle and clean whilst Savea was used to carry from the base of the ruck and be used as the jackler on D, and it worked pretty well I thought.
I can't say I'm overly sold on Savea and Sotutu in the same loose trio either, but worth a look I guess.
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@Duluth Exactly right, hence why Cane and Frizzell were constantly picked, so they could tackle and clean whilst Savea was used to carry from the base of the ruck and be used as the jackler on D, and it worked pretty well I thought.
I can't say I'm overly sold on Savea and Sotutu in the same loose trio either, but worth a look I guess.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Duluth Exactly right, hence why Cane and Frizzell were constantly picked, so they could tackle and clean whilst Savea was used to carry from the base of the ruck and be used as the jackler on D, and it worked pretty well I thought.
I can't say I'm overly sold on Savea and Sotutu in the same loose trio either, but worth a look I guess.
LOL
S Frizell 1 1
S Cane 8 1
A Savea 9 0But looking at the semi and the quarters
S FrizellFL 17 3
S CaneFL 14 0
A SaveaN8 19 0S FrizellFL 9 2
S CaneFL 22 2
A SaveaN8 15 2I don't think that Savea is lacking in the tackle stakes, the other up there or thereabouts was Scott Barrett in all three games
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Duluth Exactly right, hence why Cane and Frizzell were constantly picked, so they could tackle and clean whilst Savea was used to carry from the base of the ruck and be used as the jackler on D, and it worked pretty well I thought.
I can't say I'm overly sold on Savea and Sotutu in the same loose trio either, but worth a look I guess.
LOL
S Frizell 1 1
S Cane 8 1
A Savea 9 0But looking at the semi and the quarters
S FrizellFL 17 3
S CaneFL 14 0
A SaveaN8 19 0S FrizellFL 9 2
S CaneFL 22 2
A SaveaN8 15 2I don't think that Savea is lacking in the tackle stakes, the other up there or thereabouts was Scott Barrett in all three games
@Machpants
Savea is a dude who allows the opposition to make meters when he is defending.
He rides them down, whereas Cane stopped them dead in their tracks. -
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Duluth Exactly right, hence why Cane and Frizzell were constantly picked, so they could tackle and clean whilst Savea was used to carry from the base of the ruck and be used as the jackler on D, and it worked pretty well I thought.
I can't say I'm overly sold on Savea and Sotutu in the same loose trio either, but worth a look I guess.
LOL
S Frizell 1 1
S Cane 8 1
A Savea 9 0But looking at the semi and the quarters
S FrizellFL 17 3
S CaneFL 14 0
A SaveaN8 19 0S FrizellFL 9 2
S CaneFL 22 2
A SaveaN8 15 2I don't think that Savea is lacking in the tackle stakes, the other up there or thereabouts was Scott Barrett in all three games
@Machpants I never said I was a huge fan of Frizzell, I just pointed out that he suited the way they wanted to play ahead of other options. It also didn't make Savea exclusive to not tackling at all, his job was more to hunt for the ball on defence, and carry as much as possible, be that from the base of the ruck or as first receiver.
I don't know how they want to set up this season, but going by these guys sides in the past, I'd be surprised if Sotutu and Savea started together. Not saying it's right or wrong, just trying to see how they fit them both in if they play in a similar manner this year.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
It was his first game in 2 months and people expected him to be playing the house down after watching Savea play for 2 months straight
and this is where our current season structure just sucks. Once super rugby finishes, these guys don't get to play high level rugby unless they are in the test team.
There could be an interesting idea there to build an NZ specific model to allow that focused on what NZR really cares about - the AB brand.
It would require cooperation from Oz and SA though, so I don't like the chances, however, if SANZAAR allowed two teams from the Pacific Nations Cup to come up to the Rugby Championship (likely Fiji and Japan who could play off with the other nations to allow movement between the competitions), we could add the ABXV or Maori AB team to that competition (likely alongside Australia A). If OZ didn't or couldn't participate, we could have two teams in the competition.
We could then have at least one of our second teams competing against Samoa, Tonga, USA, and Canada. Whether the level of that competition is stronger or weaker than NPC is a separate question, but it would allow for collaboration across the two squads and have guys in the next tier playing if and when injuries strike.
Feel free to bag this, I'm not wedded to it, just putting it up for discussion.
Or a second tier championship with islands, AB XV and Oz XV, and maybe Japan?
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
It was his first game in 2 months and people expected him to be playing the house down after watching Savea play for 2 months straight
and this is where our current season structure just sucks. Once super rugby finishes, these guys don't get to play high level rugby unless they are in the test team.
There could be an interesting idea there to build an NZ specific model to allow that focused on what NZR really cares about - the AB brand.
It would require cooperation from Oz and SA though, so I don't like the chances, however, if SANZAAR allowed two teams from the Pacific Nations Cup to come up to the Rugby Championship (likely Fiji and Japan who could play off with the other nations to allow movement between the competitions), we could add the ABXV or Maori AB team to that competition (likely alongside Australia A). If OZ didn't or couldn't participate, we could have two teams in the competition.
We could then have at least one of our second teams competing against Samoa, Tonga, USA, and Canada. Whether the level of that competition is stronger or weaker than NPC is a separate question, but it would allow for collaboration across the two squads and have guys in the next tier playing if and when injuries strike.
Feel free to bag this, I'm not wedded to it, just putting it up for discussion.
Or a second tier championship with islands, AB XV and Oz XV, and maybe Japan?
Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Japan, USA, Canada make up the Pacific Nations Cup, hence move two of those to Rugby Championship to add our two teams (or perhaps one from Oz).
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@Duluth Exactly right, hence why Cane and Frizzell were constantly picked, so they could tackle and clean whilst Savea was used to carry from the base of the ruck and be used as the jackler on D, and it worked pretty well I thought.
I can't say I'm overly sold on Savea and Sotutu in the same loose trio either, but worth a look I guess.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I can't say I'm overly sold on Savea and Sotutu in the same loose trio either, but worth a look I guess.
We did see that at the end of that draw against England where Sotutu replaced Papalii so we had a loose forward trio of Savea, Frizell and Sotutu for the last 7 or so mins. While only for a short time, I remember Sotutu looking a little lost as Ardie never changed his role.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I can't say I'm overly sold on Savea and Sotutu in the same loose trio either, but worth a look I guess.
We did see that at the end of that draw against England where Sotutu replaced Papalii so we had a loose forward trio of Savea, Frizell and Sotutu for the last 7 or so mins. While only for a short time, I remember Sotutu looking a little lost as Ardie never changed his role.
@Bovidae Yeah and England of all teams ran in 3 tries in that period.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
We have been saddled by stuck in the mud selections and misplaced loyalty for far too long. Last 4 years has been painful
Yep, and by quoting percentage wins (Ritchie's win record) or 2020~ form in black (Akira, Sotutu), I am not sure it is so relevant moving forward. Having said that, I don't think selections were the previous coaching group's biggest problem. They always seemed to reward Super rugby form (Lack of "deep analysis"?)
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I don't think selections were the previous coaching group's biggest problem. They always seemed to reward Super rugby form (Lack of "deep analysis"?)
so ... selection issues were the biggest problem?
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Savea is a world class 7 or 8.
It's definitely worth giving Sotutu and Iose a run.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Savea is a world class 7 or 8.
It's definitely worth giving Sotutu and Iose a run.Savea is a world class rugby player, but, there's a myth been built up about his abilities as an out and out 7. He's started at 13 tests as a 7.
His world class rugby has been at 8 and previous to that as a super sub.
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I take all that with a grain of salt.
What has he really said? I believe it is the media looking for drama where there really isn't any.Would you like to see Mo'unga come back?
Of courseAnd there is your headline
@Darren said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I take all that with a grain of salt.
What has he really said? I believe it is the media looking for drama where there really isn't any.Would you like to see Mo'unga come back?
Of courseAnd there is your headline
@DaGrubster I think also commented on this.
There is some development since the previous interview, Razor himself is interviewed in this article:
Robertson confirmed he had been in talks with Richie Mo'unga and Shannon Frizell, now at Toshiba.
The pair are part-way through the first year of two-year deals with the Japan club and it would require something remarkable to get them home early. Robertson appears up for the task, however.
"My job is to get the best players for the All Blacks," he said. "I'm not going to talk on individual players but I need the best available players for our country. What goes on behind the scenes — we have to be professional around the employment stuff."
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/05/14/razor-on-crusaders-collapse-its-been-a-ride/
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Get. Fucked. Surf. Jesus.
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If they get Mo'unga back (likely needing to break the bank to do it), he better be the difference.
In that case, if we aren't the best in the world, Surf jesus would need to wear it.
Edit: And, I agree with @DaGrubster , I would be shocked if we can keep Dmac if Mo'unga comes back, I don't see how we can have our cake and eat it.
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If they get Mo'unga back (likely needing to break the bank to do it), he better be the difference.
In that case, if we aren't the best in the world, Surf jesus would need to wear it.
Edit: And, I agree with @DaGrubster , I would be shocked if we can keep Dmac if Mo'unga comes back, I don't see how we can have our cake and eat it.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
If they get Mo'unga back (likely needing to break the bank to do it), he better be the difference.
In that case, if we aren't the best in the world, Surf jesus would need to wear it.
Edit: And, I agree with @DaGrubster , I would be shocked if we can keep Dmac if Mo'unga comes back, I don't see how we can have our cake and eat it.
Does anyone on here, aside from maybe a few diehard Cantabs, really think he'd be any difference. He's not a great international 10, great Super 10 yes, but at test level he's no DC, or even AC, or BB in his ass kicking year (nearly a decade ago now).
Maybe he needs Surf Jesus to be that great 10? But it does make you wonder why he fucked off knowing Surf Jesus was coming in.
