All Blacks 2024
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@Duluth Exactly right, hence why Cane and Frizzell were constantly picked, so they could tackle and clean whilst Savea was used to carry from the base of the ruck and be used as the jackler on D, and it worked pretty well I thought.
I can't say I'm overly sold on Savea and Sotutu in the same loose trio either, but worth a look I guess.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I can't say I'm overly sold on Savea and Sotutu in the same loose trio either, but worth a look I guess.
We did see that at the end of that draw against England where Sotutu replaced Papalii so we had a loose forward trio of Savea, Frizell and Sotutu for the last 7 or so mins. While only for a short time, I remember Sotutu looking a little lost as Ardie never changed his role.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I can't say I'm overly sold on Savea and Sotutu in the same loose trio either, but worth a look I guess.
We did see that at the end of that draw against England where Sotutu replaced Papalii so we had a loose forward trio of Savea, Frizell and Sotutu for the last 7 or so mins. While only for a short time, I remember Sotutu looking a little lost as Ardie never changed his role.
@Bovidae Yeah and England of all teams ran in 3 tries in that period.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
We have been saddled by stuck in the mud selections and misplaced loyalty for far too long. Last 4 years has been painful
Yep, and by quoting percentage wins (Ritchie's win record) or 2020~ form in black (Akira, Sotutu), I am not sure it is so relevant moving forward. Having said that, I don't think selections were the previous coaching group's biggest problem. They always seemed to reward Super rugby form (Lack of "deep analysis"?)
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I don't think selections were the previous coaching group's biggest problem. They always seemed to reward Super rugby form (Lack of "deep analysis"?)
so ... selection issues were the biggest problem?
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Savea is a world class 7 or 8.
It's definitely worth giving Sotutu and Iose a run.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Savea is a world class 7 or 8.
It's definitely worth giving Sotutu and Iose a run.Savea is a world class rugby player, but, there's a myth been built up about his abilities as an out and out 7. He's started at 13 tests as a 7.
His world class rugby has been at 8 and previous to that as a super sub.
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I take all that with a grain of salt.
What has he really said? I believe it is the media looking for drama where there really isn't any.Would you like to see Mo'unga come back?
Of courseAnd there is your headline
@Darren said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I take all that with a grain of salt.
What has he really said? I believe it is the media looking for drama where there really isn't any.Would you like to see Mo'unga come back?
Of courseAnd there is your headline
@DaGrubster I think also commented on this.
There is some development since the previous interview, Razor himself is interviewed in this article:
Robertson confirmed he had been in talks with Richie Mo'unga and Shannon Frizell, now at Toshiba.
The pair are part-way through the first year of two-year deals with the Japan club and it would require something remarkable to get them home early. Robertson appears up for the task, however.
"My job is to get the best players for the All Blacks," he said. "I'm not going to talk on individual players but I need the best available players for our country. What goes on behind the scenes — we have to be professional around the employment stuff."
https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/05/14/razor-on-crusaders-collapse-its-been-a-ride/
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If they get Mo'unga back (likely needing to break the bank to do it), he better be the difference.
In that case, if we aren't the best in the world, Surf jesus would need to wear it.
Edit: And, I agree with @DaGrubster , I would be shocked if we can keep Dmac if Mo'unga comes back, I don't see how we can have our cake and eat it.
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If they get Mo'unga back (likely needing to break the bank to do it), he better be the difference.
In that case, if we aren't the best in the world, Surf jesus would need to wear it.
Edit: And, I agree with @DaGrubster , I would be shocked if we can keep Dmac if Mo'unga comes back, I don't see how we can have our cake and eat it.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
If they get Mo'unga back (likely needing to break the bank to do it), he better be the difference.
In that case, if we aren't the best in the world, Surf jesus would need to wear it.
Edit: And, I agree with @DaGrubster , I would be shocked if we can keep Dmac if Mo'unga comes back, I don't see how we can have our cake and eat it.
Does anyone on here, aside from maybe a few diehard Cantabs, really think he'd be any difference. He's not a great international 10, great Super 10 yes, but at test level he's no DC, or even AC, or BB in his ass kicking year (nearly a decade ago now).
Maybe he needs Surf Jesus to be that great 10? But it does make you wonder why he fucked off knowing Surf Jesus was coming in.
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McKendry over-egging the first part here:
Playmaker Mo’unga still has two years remaining on his contract, with loose forward Frizell signed up for another year after this one. They are not contracted to New Zealand Rugby.
The pair, standouts at the last World Cup, are important players for their club – given their quality and recent form, they would be for any team – and are focusing on Toshiba’s playoff match against Suntory on Sunday. Toshiba have lost only one match all season.
It’s here that things start to unravel a little.
Both Robertson and New Zealand Rugby’s manager of professional rugby Chris Lendrum have stated recently that they have been in talks with Mo’unga and Frizell about returning home as soon as possible.
Being so open about the potential for breaking contracts is an interesting approach not least because it has the potential to be unsettling for Mo’unga and Frizell, not to mention those at home who have committed to the New Zealand game - such as Mo’unga’s potential replacement Damian McKenzie.
It will likely be seen by all those connected with Toshiba as highly disrespectful too, particularly when it is not Toshiba’s contract preventing Mo’unga and Frizell from representing the All Blacks this year or any other, but New Zealand Rugby’s own eligibility rules.
Again: Toshiba is not stopping Mo'unga and Frizell from playing for the All Blacks. New Zealand Rugby is.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
If they get Mo'unga back (likely needing to break the bank to do it), he better be the difference.
In that case, if we aren't the best in the world, Surf jesus would need to wear it.
Edit: And, I agree with @DaGrubster , I would be shocked if we can keep Dmac if Mo'unga comes back, I don't see how we can have our cake and eat it.
Does anyone on here, aside from maybe a few diehard Cantabs, really think he'd be any difference. He's not a great international 10, great Super 10 yes, but at test level he's no DC, or even AC, or BB in his ass kicking year (nearly a decade ago now).
Maybe he needs Surf Jesus to be that great 10? But it does make you wonder why he fucked off knowing Surf Jesus was coming in.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
If they get Mo'unga back (likely needing to break the bank to do it), he better be the difference.
In that case, if we aren't the best in the world, Surf jesus would need to wear it.
Edit: And, I agree with @DaGrubster , I would be shocked if we can keep Dmac if Mo'unga comes back, I don't see how we can have our cake and eat it.
Does anyone on here, aside from maybe a few diehard Cantabs, really think he'd be any difference. He's not a great international 10, great Super 10 yes, but at test level he's no DC, or even AC, or BB in his ass kicking year (nearly a decade ago now).
Maybe he needs Surf Jesus to be that great 10? But it does make you wonder why he fucked off knowing Surf Jesus was coming in.
I was at the WC final, watching us run loop play after loop play for Mo'unga, until we finally got some payoff, then he missed the kick when it counted. I think my doubts about him are clear, especially as in that game we looked incredibly dangerous once Dmac came on and attacked the line - his passing has become a real weapon and it would be a shame if we were to lose him chasing a player who hasn't shown he can be the best player in the world at test level.
Mo'unga is the MVP of super rugby, best ever, I think that's clear, but his record as an international 10 is not good enough for this amount of speculation and supposed chasing.
At the end of the day, relationships with the incoming coach appear to be the key driver here, which is a terrible look for NZ rugby.
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AB Selection meetings:
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Counterfactual that can't be proven or disproven: There would hardly any chat about Mo'unga if the Crusaders were doing better. I suspect the secondary goal of fixing the Crusaders has a lot to do with the noise
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Counterfactual that can't be proven or disproven: There would hardly any chat about Mo'unga if the Crusaders were doing better. I suspect the secondary goal of fixing the Crusaders has a lot to do with the noise
I know there is a reasoned argument for it as @KiwiMurph I think has outlined, but the Burke overseas signing is another piece here. I still don't get why you would bolt when the road to an AB jersey (possible bench spot) is wide open.
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Look, we're african distance runner thin at 10, so i can understand the chat (not like, understand)
But having the lessor talented Frizzell also mentioned does my fucking head in. A guy with maybe 2 good tests ever despite repeated chances. A bloke with super questionable off-field behaviours. A bloke who completely failed to turn up in his last test. Most importantly, he's a loose forward, where we have a plethora of options.
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Look, we're african distance runner thin at 10, so i can understand the chat (not like, understand)
But having the lessor talented Frizzell also mentioned does my fucking head in. A guy with maybe 2 good tests ever despite repeated chances. A bloke with super questionable off-field behaviours. A bloke who completely failed to turn up in his last test. Most importantly, he's a loose forward, where we have a plethora of options.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Look, we're african distance runner thin at 10, so i can understand the chat (not like, understand)
But having the lessor talented Frizzell also mentioned does my fucking head in. A guy with maybe 2 good tests ever despite repeated chances. A bloke with super questionable off-field behaviours. A bloke who completely failed to turn up in his last test. Most importantly, he's a loose forward, where we have a plethora of options.
The best one is Gregor Paul talking up how dangerous Finau is when Frizell literally got yellow carded for foul play in the WC final, then was anonymous.
It will also remain a source of frustration that Frizell, who by the end of last year had established himself as the All Blacks’ starting blindside and a genuine high-quality, international player, is not available this year.
And this is why Finau is making a few people nervous – he’s fantastically physical and dynamic, but he’s been a touch wild, most notably observed when he crunched Reds first-five Tom Lynagh earlier this season.
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/the-pressure-is-on-razor-to-find-the-next-all-blacks-6/
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Look, we're african distance runner thin at 10, so i can understand the chat (not like, understand)
But having the lessor talented Frizzell also mentioned does my fucking head in. A guy with maybe 2 good tests ever despite repeated chances. A bloke with super questionable off-field behaviours. A bloke who completely failed to turn up in his last test. Most importantly, he's a loose forward, where we have a plethora of options.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
plethora
I'm glad you used that word. It means a lot to me.
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I can understand, and to a point, applaud him trying to entice former ABs or even starting super players back to NZ as we know these players leaving is a problem and is eroding our depth, while also meaning the newbies dont have the more experienced players to learn from.
I mean the likes of Reihana and Hohepa would have been far better served in behind the likes of Mounga than actually trying to steer the ship, that is all but rudderless at the moment.
Depth creates competition, and competition will make us stronger.
And while it may be seen by some that the coaches dont trust the players they have currently, these guys are professional and know thier careers are short, and also know if they arent the best, someone else will come along and take thier spot, so strive to be the best, regardless of who might come back.
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Get. Fucked. Surf. Jesus.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Get. Fucked. Surf. Jesus.
Not helped by the two players he wants back would replace your boys - DMac and Finau - from the Chiefs.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Get. Fucked. Surf. Jesus.
Not helped by the two players he wants back would replace your boys - DMac and Finau - from the Chiefs.
@Frank said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Get. Fucked. Surf. Jesus.
Not helped by the two players he wants back would replace your boys - DMac and Finau - from the Chiefs.
Don't go there - provincial bias isn't what you want in the ABs. Mo'unga would be a step backwards, but moderately understandable - fucking Fritzel is going backwards bigtime. We've got 4 years, Frizzel is a band aid at best.
