All Blacks 2024
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As regards the AB forwards this year just chuck in the Hurricanes forwards and add Scott Barrett. That's it.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Samisoni has dropped off
Yeah I have been reading that on here but in what way? Not disagreeing - I haven't seen many Chiefs games so haven't seen it for myself. Is he missing his lineout targets? Falling off tackles? Not making yards ball in hand? Missing rucks? Noone has really elaborated.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Samisoni has dropped off
Yeah I have been reading that on here but in what way? Not disagreeing - I haven't seen many Chiefs games so haven't seen it for myself. Is he missing his lineout targets? Falling off tackles? Not making yards ball in hand? Missing rucks? Noone has really elaborated.
A lot of that. Lineouts shakey, doesn't seem as busy and isn't breaking tackles or making yards like previous seasons. Just seems to be lacking dynamism.
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The thing that strikes me as a bit off about Razor "trying to entice players back"....these are guys that left after they knew he'd be coach. Especially in the case of Richie, if true, it smells fishy. Razor saying don't worry mate just go get your money and we'll sort out more money to get you back?
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The thing that strikes me as a bit off about Razor "trying to entice players back"....these are guys that left after they knew he'd be coach. Especially in the case of Richie, if true, it smells fishy. Razor saying don't worry mate just go get your money and we'll sort out more money to get you back?
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
The thing that strikes me as a bit off about Razor "trying to entice players back"....these are guys that left after they knew he'd be coach. Especially in the case of Richie, if true, it smells fishy. Razor saying don't worry mate just go get your money and we'll sort out more money to get you back?
I thought it was weird too but it's a bit of a gamble don't you think? Especially if RM really wanted to continue being an AB. I was actually starting to think things may not have been as rosy at the Saders as we were led to think. Not based on anything other than the Saders missing out on a few young players that I'd have thought would have jumped at the chance to play under Razor. And before you ask, I can't remember who they were.
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Yeah Richie taking off when he's basically being handed the keys, just as "his guy" is becoming coach was a tad bizarre.
On top of that, if Razor thought these guys were that important, why didn't he fight hammer and tongs last year? If he really is pursuing them then it must be panic after seeing SR....
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There's a truckload of conspiracy theories on here based on SFA. The guy hasn't even coached his first game yet.
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There's a truckload of conspiracy theories on here based on SFA. The guy hasn't even coached his first game yet.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
There's a truckload of conspiracy theories on here based on SFA. The guy hasn't even coached his first game yet.
In other words standard fern for the last however many years it’s been around
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We have been saddled by stuck in the mud selections and misplaced loyalty for far too long. Last 4 years has been painful
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
We have been saddled by stuck in the mud selections and misplaced loyalty for far too long. Last 4 years has been painful
That's why the thought of Havili at 12 and now covering 10 is such a refreshing change.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
We have been saddled by stuck in the mud selections and misplaced loyalty for far too long. Last 4 years has been painful
That's why the thought of Havili at 12 and now covering 10 is such a refreshing change.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
We have been saddled by stuck in the mud selections and misplaced loyalty for far too long. Last 4 years has been painful
That's why the thought of Havili at 12 and now covering 10 such a refreshing change.
https://giphy.com/gifs/workaholics-comedy-central-season-3-episode-6-3ohfFOvsOJmupPbFpm
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Barrett's back injury keeps lingering.
Everyone seems to assume captaincy is between Savea and Barrett. I wonder if Taylor is being seriously considered
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
are we happy with nailing Taylor on to start, every week? i dont want a captain that isn;t a clear favourite for his position
That's why Jordie or Scott should be captain, most disparity between them and the next best options. Jordie is 4 years younger so I'd go for him.
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i know im in the minority...but i wouldn't be too critical of a couple of losses this season if i could just see that they were trying to achieve something new, teething problems to implementing new gameplans or blooding new players
winning this year with guys that wont be around in 2027...or even worse trying the same players or techniques we've tried before and loosing....will fuck me off
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
i know im in the minority...but i wouldn't be too critical of a couple of losses this season if i could just see that they were trying to achieve something new, teething problems to implementing new gameplans or blooding new players
Thing is, I expect him to be a gun selector. He did that consistently for Crusaders - has an eye for talent. He can be really brave, and I expect he'll surprise us all with his squad - in a good way.
I'm wanting him to push the boat out a little, develop players to deliver a deeper squad than we have now and take a longer term view than we've had in the past as he has that luxury. And if there's a few losses on the way, then that's a price we'll have to pay.
I expect a pretty conservative first few Test squads but like @nzzp hope he'll bring in and persevere with players he thinks have a future - which why I find the Mo'unga and Havili stuff bloody puzzling.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
i know im in the minority...but i wouldn't be too critical of a couple of losses this season if i could just see that they were trying to achieve something new, teething problems to implementing new gameplans or blooding new players
Thing is, I expect him to be a gun selector. He did that consistently for Crusaders - has an eye for talent. He can be really brave, and I expect he'll surprise us all with his squad - in a good way.
I'm wanting him to push the boat out a little, develop players to deliver a deeper squad than we have now and take a longer term view than we've had in the past as he has that luxury. And if there's a few losses on the way, then that's a price we'll have to pay.
I expect a pretty conservative first few Test squads but like @nzzp hope he'll bring in and persevere with players he thinks have a future - which why I find the Mo'unga and Havili stuff bloody puzzling.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
i know im in the minority...but i wouldn't be too critical of a couple of losses this season if i could just see that they were trying to achieve something new, teething problems to implementing new gameplans or blooding new players
Thing is, I expect him to be a gun selector. He did that consistently for Crusaders - has an eye for talent. He can be really brave, and I expect he'll surprise us all with his squad - in a good way.
I'm wanting him to push the boat out a little, develop players to deliver a deeper squad than we have now and take a longer term view than we've had in the past as he has that luxury. And if there's a few losses on the way, then that's a price we'll have to pay.
I expect a pretty conservative first few Test squads but like @nzzp hope he'll bring in and persevere with players he thinks have a future - which why I find the Mo'unga and Havili stuff bloody puzzling.
I think it is you that has mentioned conservative a few times now and suggested his selections won't be far off last year. Obviously they weren't his selections, so we don't really know who he sees fitting into the way he wants to play and how he rates the incumbents. Maybe with Ryan being around we have an indication in the forwards (not taking into account how much influence Ryan actually had last year selection wise and game plan wise) but the backs are a different story. We don't know what he thinks of Christie and the other halfbacks, what he is looking for in his wingers, where he sees RI fitting in...
I guess what I am trying to say is, I reckon it's hard to know what is a conservative selection for Razor because we don't have a starting point.
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Yeah Richie taking off when he's basically being handed the keys, just as "his guy" is becoming coach was a tad bizarre.
On top of that, if Razor thought these guys were that important, why didn't he fight hammer and tongs last year? If he really is pursuing them then it must be panic after seeing SR....
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Yeah Richie taking off when he's basically being handed the keys, just as "his guy" is becoming coach was a tad bizarre.
On top of that, if Razor thought these guys were that important, why didn't he fight hammer and tongs last year? If he really is pursuing them then it must be panic after seeing SR....
I think the short and simple answer is that they both signed months before Razor was made coach.
They were announced as signings in Dec 2022, and he wasn't confirmed as coach until March 2023. I think it was clear that he would get the job though.
Ryan is on record explaining that he thinks Frizell didn't even want to go, but Mo'unga made it clear that it was all about the money.
I guess he was unclear about his position and what he would stand to earn and took his chance to leave.
This approach would be basically guaranteeing him to be the highest paid AB, so my feeling is that the discussion should be whether we should be using a lot of resources to get him out of contract and back here.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
'Stop talking about things I don't like' :crying_face:
Serious question, is the rest of NZ and other sections of social media expressing the same sentiments? I am not on social media so I wouldn't know.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
'Stop talking about things I don't like' :crying_face:
Serious question, is the rest of NZ and other sections of social media expressing the same sentiments? I am not on social media so I wouldn't know.
Nah, serious grumpy old man vibes around here.
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If @Chris is right about Razor favoring players with really high work rates, to the point he would pick some fairly average ones above higher impact players, then it's going to be interesting to see how our pack goes with that line of thinking. Someone like Blackadder has a work rate that approaches McCaw, however unlike McCaw he has looked busy but ineffective the next level up (McCaw really was a God out there).
Someone like Finau is much more likely to affect the outcome of a test match. Kaino used to do it every game. You need players like that in the modern game. Akira is another that has shown the power to do it the next level up.
I think back to Razor's day as a player and he was very much a workhorse. I have memories of always wanting a bigger player selected at 8 for the ABs when he got the jersey.
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If @Chris is right about Razor favoring players with really high work rates, to the point he would pick some fairly average ones above higher impact players, then it's going to be interesting to see how our pack goes with that line of thinking. Someone like Blackadder has a work rate that approaches McCaw, however unlike McCaw he has looked busy but ineffective the next level up (McCaw really was a God out there).
Someone like Finau is much more likely to affect the outcome of a test match. Kaino used to do it every game. You need players like that in the modern game. Akira is another that has shown the power to do it the next level up.
I think back to Razor's day as a player and he was very much a workhorse. I have memories of always wanting a bigger player selected at 8 for the ABs when he got the jersey.
@No-Quarter Finau and Kaino are/were workhorses. Didn't Ryan say that about Finau last year?
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There is a difference between a player with high work rates than a work horse
Finau is a high work rate player.
Players who don’t drift in games are high work rate players.They certainly have an impact due to being in the game more than a player who drifts in and out.
Sotutu,Lakai have high work rates,Jacobsen ,Lilo-Willie ,DP are all high work rate players.I
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Finau would be in my squad but the thing he needs to improve is his workrate. It's the only real criticism of him. His number of involvements per game is low. His involvements are very good but not (yet) frequent enough
Take the Bledisloe game he played last year and he barely did anything in the first half before having a very good second half. It's an area he needs to improve and I'm sure he will
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Israel Dagg's comments on Cane relinquishing the captaincy. He just said the obvious thing but I haven't seen any other media commentators say this. Seems very likely that Cane was given the word
“I get a sense that this was forced. I get a sense that there was a shoulder tap from the one and only saying, ‘G’Day son, I think the writing is on the wall in terms of where you are seen in New Zealand rugby, Scott Barrett is going to take over the captaincy’. “I think this was forced to be completely honest. They’ve been having conversations about it online, but the reality is he was shoulder tapped and told to make that next step and his next step is getting the Yen over in Japan.”
