All Blacks 2024
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We had an advantage over every nation in 2020.
This is an incredibly tough season ahead. One of the hardest in recent times.
We will probably have to use around 45+ players for the ABs this year due to the workload and inevitable injury list that comes with it. Given we had the usual exodus after a RWC, the depth of the ABs will be stretched as much as it has ever been.
I have high hopes for this AB squad and new coaching team. The playing and mgmt talent is there. Previous success is a very good indicator of future success, and Razor and his team are at the start of their international journey. Which means some things will take time, mistakes will be made and it will be a big learning curve. Which could mean some games lost that we shouldn’t.
As you say, we expect high standards and winning every match. Every AB coach is under the same pressure in that regard.
It’s so important for the commercial success of NZR. We need the ABs to be winning as they are the cash cow for us.
Having said all that, If the next season or two doesn’t go as planned, I’m not sure Razor will be sacked or under the same public pressure as Foz was.
Mainly because Foz wasn’t a very popular choice as coach to start with and if Razor, the golden boy, got fired for poor performance, where would NZR go from there?
I have gone off on a tangent there and those thoughts aren’t really a direct reply, just overthinking it probably
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I’m not sure Razor will be sacked or under the same public pressure as Foz was.
Oh, he will be.
if Razor, the golden boy, got fired for poor performance, where would NZR go from there?
NZR do a better job of supporting the coach?
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm liking this new excuse pre-prepared for Razor: World Rugby is now more competitive.
What else can this thread conjure?
I’m almost hoping the ABs finish the test season with a losing record just to see some you guys go crazy. Meanwhile Razor will be laughing saying, three more years
Don't worry you'll be a convert shortly.
Generally speaking I am surprised at the number of fins already circling the surfboard. We are not even in the water yet.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Generally speaking I am surprised at the number of fins already circling the surfboard. We are not even in the water yet.
Well I'm not circling any surfboard. Robertson's got a completely fresh sheet of paper to work with, plenty of time and an opportunity to produce the goods he wants to deliver.
If there's bumps along the way, then so be it - as long as the direction is generally forward.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm liking this new excuse pre-prepared for Razor: World Rugby is now more competitive.
What else can this thread conjure?
I’m almost hoping the ABs finish the test season with a losing record just to see some you guys go crazy. Meanwhile Razor will be laughing saying, three more years
Don't worry you'll be a convert shortly.
Generally speaking I am surprised at the number of fins already circling the surfboard. We are not even in the water yet.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Generally speaking I am surprised at the number of fins already circling the surfboard. We are not even in the water yet.
If he selects donkeys he knows from Canterbury and we lose, brace yourself for the firestorm.
I don't think he'll do either, but there's an aura of fear given teh comments about Mo'unga, Whitelock and Fritzel.
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We have lost key players, notably our best ever locking combo, our best ever halfback, our starting 10, and our captain - so to me it is a rebuilding season. I think he's probably a pretty good coach, but to me at least he has a reasonable amount of leeway on results this year if we can see good plans and progress. If we were to lose e.g. McKenzie to injury, then it looks like a very tough year all of a sudden.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm liking this new excuse pre-prepared for Razor: World Rugby is now more competitive.
What else can this thread conjure?
I’m almost hoping the ABs finish the test season with a losing record just to see some you guys go crazy. Meanwhile Razor will be laughing saying, three more years
Don't worry you'll be a convert shortly.
Generally speaking I am surprised at the number of fins already circling the surfboard. We are not even in the water yet.well, he's following a (/sarc) successful coach who took us within 1 point of a RWC with 14 v 15. So he's got big shoes to fill
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I'm liking this new excuse pre-prepared for Razor: World Rugby is now more competitive.
What else can this thread conjure?
I’m almost hoping the ABs finish the test season with a losing record just to see some you guys go crazy. Meanwhile Razor will be laughing saying, three more years
Don't worry you'll be a convert shortly.
Generally speaking I am surprised at the number of fins already circling the surfboard. We are not even in the water yet.well, he's following a (/sarc) successful coach who took us within 1 point of a RWC with 14 v 15. So he's got big shoes to fill
I'm still pissed we didn't win that, we were the better team, two easy missed penalties from Jordie and Mo'unga.. that'll haunt them..
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Generally speaking I am surprised at the number of fins already circling the surfboard. We are not even in the water yet.
If he selects donkeys he knows from Canterbury and we lose, brace yourself for the firestorm.
I don't think he'll do either, but there's an aura of fear given teh comments about Mo'unga, Whitelock and Fritzel.
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We have lost key players, notably our best ever locking combo, our best ever halfback, our starting 10, and our captain - so to me it is a rebuilding season. I think he's probably a pretty good coach, but to me at least he has a reasonable amount of leeway on results this year if we can see good plans and progress. If we were to lose e.g. McKenzie to injury, then it looks like a very tough year all of a sudden.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
We have lost key players, notably our best ever locking combo, our best ever halfback, our starting 10, and our captain - so to me it is a rebuilding season. I think he's probably a pretty good coach, but to me at least he has a reasonable amount of leeway on results this year if we can see good plans and progress. If we were to lose e.g. McKenzie to injury, then it looks like a very tough year all of a sudden.
Canes not gone yet, but it is a tough year
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Leon MacDonald confirmed on the Breakdown that it will be a 32 man squad with 18 forwards and 14 backs.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
32 man squad with 18 forwards and 13 backs.
and one extra maths teacher?
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@nzzp And no new names were written down for the squad after the Semi Final. What they saw confirmed their opinions about a number of players they have been already looking at.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp And no new names were written down for the squad after the Semi Final. What they saw confirmed their opinions about a number of players they have been already looking at.
Can they make Super any more irrelevant?
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp And no new names were written down for the squad after the Semi Final. What they saw confirmed their opinions about a number of players they have been already looking at.
Can they make Super any more irrelevant?
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp And no new names were written down for the squad after the Semi Final. What they saw confirmed their opinions about a number of players they have been already looking at.
Can they make Super any more irrelevant?
@nzzp tbf in previous years the squad was named prior to the final...
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2020 Foster record 3-1-2, losses to AUS ARG
2021 12-3, losing to SAR FRA IREWe thought 21 was a disaster and it was. That's got to be the bar
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
2020 Foster record 3-1-2, losses to AUS ARG
2021 12-3, losing to SAR FRA IREWe thought 21 was a disaster and it was. That's got to be the bar
2020 was the big problem for Fozzie.
He got off to a terrible start and was always behind the eight ball afterwards, especially given perceptions that he'd never been a good head coach and was a bit of a "jobs for the boys" appointment. And especially because it was covid times and people were looking for some good news. I think the expectation would have been 6-0 for those series, but 5-1 would have been a pass mark.
By comparison, if Razor doesn't win 4-0 vs Australia and Argentina, he'll struggle mightily to achieve my 10-4 benchmark.
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This is all why i said i was more interested in HOW we try and play, if we see things reminiscent of Bridge trying to be a bulldozer (and failing) doing crash balls in from the blind side wing or persisting with helter skelter shit like cross field kick passes inside our own 22....then i will get on the razor out bandwagon...if we can see game plans and selections changing depending on who we're playing, experimentation with some innovation and actually addressing areas our opposition are targeting....then he gets the time he needs
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp And no new names were written down for the squad after the Semi Final. What they saw confirmed their opinions about a number of players they have been already looking at.
Can they make Super any more irrelevant?
This post is deleted! -
@Machpants said in Hurricanes 2024:
He raises some valid points
Tremendous sentence: I’m assuming (and hoping) that Robertson knows this and will pick the type of players who actually win you big games, rather than athletes that look a million bucks in a rout.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
It's quite funny how we've gone from a complete lack of depth at 8 to now overflowing. I'd be very tempted to put Savea back to 7 and give Sotutu and Sititi a go - they've both really deserved it.
Finau - Savea - Sotutu/Sititi has a lot of power to it. It's a bit tough on Papps but it's an excitng combination.
When did we have a complete lack of depth at No 8?
Read was always a permanent fixture leading up to 2019 and since then we've had Savea, Jacobson and Sotutu all playing well (at Super Rugby level).
At the start of the year we Savea oversea's, Sotutu was someone who hadn't lived up to his potential and Sititi was completly unknown. Not exactly flush with depth.
It was wide open for someone to put their hand up as a 8, thankfully Sotutu and Sititi have done that this year.
Sotutu hasn't lived up the hype now any more than he had at the start of the year. If anything, he's got even more hype around him. He's always been a good player for the Blues, particularly in the last couple of years. Whether he can carry that into the Test season is anyone's guess (as it was last year and the hear before).
I'd say the hype around Sititi is even worse at the moment. He's had one great game against the Hurricanes and one great game against Moana Pasifika. Otherwise, he's failed to replicate that similar form in the games in between. He could absolutely become a Test great but it's not like he's had an absolutely standout season for the Chiefs, just a few great games (one in a semi-final when the world is watching).
The Super Rugby sides haven't struggled for top number 8s and while the All Blacks might have lacked depth, I wouldn't say anything's changed this year on that front - a few guys with great potential but still no one really proven to back up Savea.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
It's quite funny how we've gone from a complete lack of depth at 8 to now overflowing. I'd be very tempted to put Savea back to 7 and give Sotutu and Sititi a go - they've both really deserved it.
Finau - Savea - Sotutu/Sititi has a lot of power to it. It's a bit tough on Papps but it's an excitng combination.
When did we have a complete lack of depth at No 8?
Read was always a permanent fixture leading up to 2019 and since then we've had Savea, Jacobson and Sotutu all playing well (at Super Rugby level).
At the start of the year we Savea oversea's, Sotutu was someone who hadn't lived up to his potential and Sititi was completly unknown. Not exactly flush with depth.
It was wide open for someone to put their hand up as a 8, thankfully Sotutu and Sititi have done that this year.
Sotutu hasn't lived up the hype now any more than he had at the start of the year. If anything, he's got even more hype around him. He's always been a good player for the Blues, particularly in the last couple of years. Whether he can carry that into the Test season is anyone's guess (as it was last year and the hear before).
I'd say the hype around Sititi is even worse at the moment. He's had one great game against the Hurricanes and one great game against Moana Pasifika. Otherwise, he's failed to replicate that similar form in the games in between. He could absolutely become a Test great but it's not like he's had an absolutely standout season for the Chiefs, just a few great games (one in a semi-final when the world is watching).
The Super Rugby sides haven't struggled for top number 8s and while the All Blacks might have lacked depth, I wouldn't say anything's changed this year on that front - a few guys with great potential but still no one really proven to back up Savea.
I understand where your coming from in that Sotutu and Sititi aren't proven test #8's and that good SR form does not translate to the test arena.
My post in terms of depth is probably more along the lines of optimisim. Sotutu is in career best form and looks to have wokred hard on his game to be more dominant and effective. Sititi has come out of nowhere to be a true bolter for the squad.
Lets just say I'm a lot more optimistic about us finding a back up to Savea at 8 now than what I was at the start of the season.
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@Machpants said in Hurricanes 2024:
He raises some valid points
Tremendous sentence: I’m assuming (and hoping) that Robertson knows this and will pick the type of players who actually win you big games, rather than athletes that look a million bucks in a rout.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Machpants said in Hurricanes 2024:
He raises some valid points
Tremendous sentence: I’m assuming (and hoping) that Robertson knows this and will pick the type of players who actually win you big games, rather than athletes that look a million bucks in a rout.
Coming from the Roar that doesn't mean much. Under Laidlaw, the Canes were a much better side this year and played some great rugby, injuries to key players at the wrong time of the season didn't help and we just failed to peak at the right time unfortunately, I'm sure that group will be better for the experience. My expectation for this side moving forward is to be title contenders for the next 5 or so years at least with the cattle we have locked up.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp And no new names were written down for the squad after the Semi Final. What they saw confirmed their opinions about a number of players they have been already looking at.
Can they make Super any more irrelevant?
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp And no new names were written down for the squad after the Semi Final. What they saw confirmed their opinions about a number of players they have been already looking at.
Can they make Super any more irrelevant?
I guess we read into things the way we want, but I read MacDonald's comment as meaning no player played their way in or way out on the weekend. At least they have a firm idea of who they want and the way they want to play. I'd be worried if they didn't.
