Super Rugby - The Future
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@Machpants said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Machpants said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Machpants said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Chris said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Chris so is that an 18 round regular season if you factor in 2 byes?
It would have to be to make it work, not locked in the preferred version so I hear probably will end up being tweaked maybe to 5 teams played twice to pull back the weeks they can fit in.
They are keen to start the comp a week earlier than normal.Why do you need byes with 11 teams, fuck that. Not required, rotate if required
The byes aren't in addition to the forced bye.
With an 11 team league every team with have at least one bye every 11 weeks.
That's enough
If you have more than an 11 week regular season you have to have multiple byes with an 11 team comp in order for teams to play the same number of games.
Not if they do home and away, as it should be. To actually make a decent length comp. Play through the internationals, they do it in NH, great leveler for the over powerful teams. Or pause, as I think the premiership did this year
If you have an 11 team comp with 20 games for each team (home and away) each team still has 2 byes because not every team can play every week.
@KiwiMurph I think if you have a season this long we should go straight into the semis.
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A comp based on continents would be interesting, Europe could divide into 2 or 3, and N America could be competitive...
@nostrildamus said in Super Rugby - The Future:
A comp based on continents would be interesting, Europe could divide into 2 or 3, and N America could be competitive...
Then you'd need a 7s type end with cup, plate etc. to keep the interest when inevitably there's three NZ teams and the Brumbies in the semis.
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@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Machpants said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Machpants said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Chris said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Chris so is that an 18 round regular season if you factor in 2 byes?
It would have to be to make it work, not locked in the preferred version so I hear probably will end up being tweaked maybe to 5 teams played twice to pull back the weeks they can fit in.
They are keen to start the comp a week earlier than normal.Why do you need byes with 11 teams, fuck that. Not required, rotate if required
The byes aren't in addition to the forced bye.
With an 11 team league every team with have at least one bye every 11 weeks.
That's enough
If you have more than an 11 week regular season you have to have multiple byes with an 11 team comp in order for teams to play the same number of games.
and that's why I have a real gripe with the Rebels getting dissolved by moronic ARU, 1 step forwards - 2 steps back...
@ruggabee said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Machpants said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Machpants said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Chris said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Chris so is that an 18 round regular season if you factor in 2 byes?
It would have to be to make it work, not locked in the preferred version so I hear probably will end up being tweaked maybe to 5 teams played twice to pull back the weeks they can fit in.
They are keen to start the comp a week earlier than normal.Why do you need byes with 11 teams, fuck that. Not required, rotate if required
The byes aren't in addition to the forced bye.
With an 11 team league every team with have at least one bye every 11 weeks.
That's enough
If you have more than an 11 week regular season you have to have multiple byes with an 11 team comp in order for teams to play the same number of games.
and that's why I have a real gripe with the Rebels getting dissolved by moronic ARU, 1 step forwards - 2 steps back...
Aust finally make a good decision
It was a must-make decision. They really can only afford and have enough depth for 3 teams but 4 is much better than 5
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Rugby Direct podcast talks to Super Rugby Pacific board chair Kevin Malloy:
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/podcasts/rugby-direct/rugby-direct-episode-127/
@Tim said in Super Rugby - The Future:
Rugby Direct podcast talks to Super Rugby Pacific board chair Kevin Malloy:
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/podcasts/rugby-direct/rugby-direct-episode-127/
Stopped listening to Elliott Smith and Liam Napier.
But Kevin was good,
I thought Jack was already on Board but surely rugby interviewer should know.
Its July 22nd so getting close
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There's been recent discussion about All Blacks playing for Aussie Super sides and Wallabies playing for NZ Super sides to try and make Super Rugby more appealing as a whole. Imagine Ardie Savea playing for the Reds or Rob Valetini playing for the Canes. Would a competition structure that allows players to move to any Super team but still be eligible for their international side work?
There would obviously be many flaws to this from an AB perspective as we have stronger players, but this would be one way to make teams more even and improve the competition as a whole (from an Aussie perspective). If you kept Super Rugby to just Aus/NZ teams then you could even incorporate a transfer/draft structure similar to the NBA/NFL etc. Food for thought indeed.
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And of all the clubs battling financial headwinds, none have been more challenged than Moana Pasifika, who have yet to find a home base and build a dedicated following and therefore have been deemed to be carrying a high degree of financial vulnerability.
But the Herald can reveal that Moana have secured their future by striking a significant deal with a new financial partner.
The club have confirmed that the new partnership has given them long-term security, and with that, they can now offer prospective new players the certainty they need to join Moana.
IIRC they named a health insurance company, but edited it out?
EDIT:
Here it is:
But the Herald can reveal that Moana have secured their future by striking a significant deal with a new financial partner – believed to be South Seas Healthcare, or trustees of South Seas Healthcare.
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There's been recent discussion about All Blacks playing for Aussie Super sides and Wallabies playing for NZ Super sides to try and make Super Rugby more appealing as a whole. Imagine Ardie Savea playing for the Reds or Rob Valetini playing for the Canes. Would a competition structure that allows players to move to any Super team but still be eligible for their international side work?
There would obviously be many flaws to this from an AB perspective as we have stronger players, but this would be one way to make teams more even and improve the competition as a whole (from an Aussie perspective). If you kept Super Rugby to just Aus/NZ teams then you could even incorporate a transfer/draft structure similar to the NBA/NFL etc. Food for thought indeed.
@Canes4life said in Super Rugby - The Future:
There's been recent discussion about All Blacks playing for Aussie Super sides and Wallabies playing for NZ Super sides to try and make Super Rugby more appealing as a whole. Imagine Ardie Savea playing for the Reds or Rob Valetini playing for the Canes.
Barely any of our guys would make a first XV over there. They've been brought up on 8-10 schoolboys games a year max, followed by an academy system narrower than a goat track. There's a reason we lose the physical battles: our development systems are shit.
Going to 3 teams won't change that.
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@Canes4life said in Super Rugby - The Future:
There's been recent discussion about All Blacks playing for Aussie Super sides and Wallabies playing for NZ Super sides to try and make Super Rugby more appealing as a whole. Imagine Ardie Savea playing for the Reds or Rob Valetini playing for the Canes.
Barely any of our guys would make a first XV over there. They've been brought up on 8-10 schoolboys games a year max, followed by an academy system narrower than a goat track. There's a reason we lose the physical battles: our development systems are shit.
Going to 3 teams won't change that.
@NTA said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Canes4life said in Super Rugby - The Future:
There's been recent discussion about All Blacks playing for Aussie Super sides and Wallabies playing for NZ Super sides to try and make Super Rugby more appealing as a whole. Imagine Ardie Savea playing for the Reds or Rob Valetini playing for the Canes.
Barely any of our guys would make a first XV over there. They've been brought up on 8-10 schoolboys games a year max, followed by an academy system narrower than a goat track. There's a reason we lose the physical battles: our development systems are shit.
Going to 3 teams won't change that.
Maybe the Aussie teams go down to two teams then.
We need to find a way of making all teams more even though otherwise it will just be the same five or six sides competing for the playoffs every year which will get boring in the long run.
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@NTA said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Canes4life said in Super Rugby - The Future:
There's been recent discussion about All Blacks playing for Aussie Super sides and Wallabies playing for NZ Super sides to try and make Super Rugby more appealing as a whole. Imagine Ardie Savea playing for the Reds or Rob Valetini playing for the Canes.
Barely any of our guys would make a first XV over there. They've been brought up on 8-10 schoolboys games a year max, followed by an academy system narrower than a goat track. There's a reason we lose the physical battles: our development systems are shit.
Going to 3 teams won't change that.
Maybe the Aussie teams go down to two teams then.
We need to find a way of making all teams more even though otherwise it will just be the same five or six sides competing for the playoffs every year which will get boring in the long run.
@Canes4life it is diminishing returns. The effect of dropping pro teams here is less TV money.
Drop in TV money = drop in investment = drop in talent development = drop in competitiveness = calls for another team to be dropped. Rewind, play, stop, rewind, play, stop etc.
Might as well just kick us out and be done with it if that is the answer :man_shrugging:
It isn't of course - the investment of whatever money rugby has here needs to be better directed, and our entire system needs bringing out of the 80s.
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@Canes4life it is diminishing returns. The effect of dropping pro teams here is less TV money.
Drop in TV money = drop in investment = drop in talent development = drop in competitiveness = calls for another team to be dropped. Rewind, play, stop, rewind, play, stop etc.
Might as well just kick us out and be done with it if that is the answer :man_shrugging:
It isn't of course - the investment of whatever money rugby has here needs to be better directed, and our entire system needs bringing out of the 80s.
@NTA said in Super Rugby - The Future:
@Canes4life it is diminishing returns. The effect of dropping pro teams here is less TV money.
Drop in TV money = drop in investment = drop in talent development = drop in competitiveness = calls for another team to be dropped. Rewind, play, stop, rewind, play, stop etc.
Might as well just kick us out and be done with it if that is the answer :man_shrugging:
It isn't of course - the investment of whatever money rugby has here needs to be better directed, and our entire system needs bringing out of the 80s.
Yeah I don't know what the answer is here but Aus rugby really needs to be more competitive, otherwise Super Rugby will never improve.
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In terms of next steps for Kevan Malloy’s Super Rugby commission, Hore has confidence in a viable 11-team draw providing a post-Melbourne solution next year (with an extra derby game to sweeten the pot), but challenges are plentiful.
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@KiwiMurph
With Georgian comms. An interesting Yellow only call at 6:10 mins -
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Japan Rugby League One executive Hajime Shoji outlines what they want from Super Rugby, and what they don’t
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Japan Rugby League One executive Hajime Shoji outlines what they want from Super Rugby, and what they don’t
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JRLO is a growth league, with last season’s final drawing 56,486 fans.
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Super Rugby’s longer-term structure remains unclear.
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Kiwi Super sides won’t play in Japan in 2025.
The All Blacks play Japan this weekend in the latest chapter of a deepening rugby relationship between the two countries, but a potential merged competition between Super Rugby Pacific and Japan Rugby League One remains some distance off.
Super Rugby Pacific chief executive Jack Mesley is currently working on a strategy for 2026 onwards, telling The Post last month that he had an “open mind” to new teams.
Japan has often been mentioned as the natural next step for Super Rugby, although that is based on the premise that the Japanese are as keen as New Zealand and Australia.
However, in an interview with The Post, JRLO chief operating officer Hajime Shoji has outlined a more nuanced but firm position, stating that Japan first wanted post-season playoff games of real consequence before any moves towards a potential merger.
“The meaning of the game is the most important [thing], just an exchange is not enough,” Shoji said, referring to the Blues and Chiefs’ preseason fixtures in February.
“In our long-term horizon, it’s how to realise the value of the game, especially for the competition level and the fans’ enthusiasm.
“So, some formality for the game is quite important.
“And of course, commercial success or commercial performance is also very important.
“Once we can have a meaningful format for the game many Japanese corporations, especially who have business in Australia and New Zealand, have a good appetite to support us.”
The Blues and Chiefs played in what was marketed as “Cross-Border Rugby” before Super Rugby and while Shoji said the concept was “quite successful” as relationship-building exercises, they lacked true meaning for both countries.
Only one of the four games in Cross-Border Rugby truly caught the eye - when Robbie Deans put out a full-strength Saitama Wild Knights to play, and beat, the Chiefs - and there will be no repeat in 2025.
Beauden Barrett in action for Suntory Sungoliath in Japan’s domestic rugby competition.
The preferred option for JRLO is to have a formalised competition at the end of Super Rugby Pacific and Japan’s domestic competition, when sides from all countries would have access to their test players.
“We are keeping the discussion [open] for our future collaboration,” Shoji said.
“We are discussing the many options for the cross border format, for our mutual benefit.
“It’s still under negotiation so I cannot talk [about it] much, but basically one of the option is integrated type of playoffs after each [domestic] playoff.
“And another option is having the some games in the midst of the season [in Japan].
“We have some preference but our discussion is based on mutual benefit.”
JRLO’s negotiating position - essentially a form of stick and carrot - reflects the growing self-confidence of a league that is growing its fanbase.
Last season’s final between Toshiba Brave Lupus Tokyo, coached by Todd Blackadder, and the Saitama Wild Knights attracted a crowd of 56,486 in late May, which was more than the Japan-England test match in June.
Blackadder and Deans have been joined by Ian Foster, Dave Rennie, Kieran Crowley, Tabai Matson, Glenn Delaney and Wayne Pivac in the coaching ranks in Japan, lifting the competition’s rugby IQ in a big way.
The All Blacks enjoy support and recognition in Japan but Super Rugby is a different matter.
Tsutomu Kishimoto
As a result, players such as Beauden Barrett - who has featured for both Suntory Sungoliath and Toyota Verblitz in JRLO - have called for NZ Rugby to pull out the stops to make the top Japanese sides a full part of Super Rugby.Shoji did not rule that out at some point in the future but said a lot more groundwork was needed before that became compelling for the Japanese.
“That has to take some steps, because all integrated types of models firstly need the fans’ understanding,” he said.
“Japanese fans, at least at this moment, don't understand the structure or history of Super Rugby well.
“And in that [potential] integration of the league, it [will] have some challenge to get the understanding from Japanese fans.
“And of course the second reason is... the cost effectiveness, or financial feasibility.
“Of course, the cost of moving to each place is quite big.
“Therefore, for these two reasons, we need to take some steps, at least, before we are moving to some integration.”
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I have to ask what "post-season playoff games of real consequence" actually means....the only thing they can do it make a new trophy (pacific club champ)...and is another new trophy really going to mean much to anyone...especially if one day they are combined into one comp
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JRLO is a growth league, with last season’s final drawing 56,486 fans.
-
Super Rugby’s longer-term structure remains unclear.
-
Kiwi Super sides won’t play in Japan in 2025.
The All Blacks play Japan this weekend in the latest chapter of a deepening rugby relationship between the two countries, but a potential merged competition between Super Rugby Pacific and Japan Rugby League One remains some distance off.
Super Rugby Pacific chief executive Jack Mesley is currently working on a strategy for 2026 onwards, telling The Post last month that he had an “open mind” to new teams.
Japan has often been mentioned as the natural next step for Super Rugby, although that is based on the premise that the Japanese are as keen as New Zealand and Australia.
However, in an interview with The Post, JRLO chief operating officer Hajime Shoji has outlined a more nuanced but firm position, stating that Japan first wanted post-season playoff games of real consequence before any moves towards a potential merger.
“The meaning of the game is the most important [thing], just an exchange is not enough,” Shoji said, referring to the Blues and Chiefs’ preseason fixtures in February.
“In our long-term horizon, it’s how to realise the value of the game, especially for the competition level and the fans’ enthusiasm.
“So, some formality for the game is quite important.
“And of course, commercial success or commercial performance is also very important.
“Once we can have a meaningful format for the game many Japanese corporations, especially who have business in Australia and New Zealand, have a good appetite to support us.”
The Blues and Chiefs played in what was marketed as “Cross-Border Rugby” before Super Rugby and while Shoji said the concept was “quite successful” as relationship-building exercises, they lacked true meaning for both countries.
Only one of the four games in Cross-Border Rugby truly caught the eye - when Robbie Deans put out a full-strength Saitama Wild Knights to play, and beat, the Chiefs - and there will be no repeat in 2025.
Beauden Barrett in action for Suntory Sungoliath in Japan’s domestic rugby competition.
The preferred option for JRLO is to have a formalised competition at the end of Super Rugby Pacific and Japan’s domestic competition, when sides from all countries would have access to their test players.
“We are keeping the discussion [open] for our future collaboration,” Shoji said.
“We are discussing the many options for the cross border format, for our mutual benefit.
“It’s still under negotiation so I cannot talk [about it] much, but basically one of the option is integrated type of playoffs after each [domestic] playoff.
“And another option is having the some games in the midst of the season [in Japan].
“We have some preference but our discussion is based on mutual benefit.”
JRLO’s negotiating position - essentially a form of stick and carrot - reflects the growing self-confidence of a league that is growing its fanbase.
Last season’s final between Toshiba Brave Lupus Tokyo, coached by Todd Blackadder, and the Saitama Wild Knights attracted a crowd of 56,486 in late May, which was more than the Japan-England test match in June.
Blackadder and Deans have been joined by Ian Foster, Dave Rennie, Kieran Crowley, Tabai Matson, Glenn Delaney and Wayne Pivac in the coaching ranks in Japan, lifting the competition’s rugby IQ in a big way.
The All Blacks enjoy support and recognition in Japan but Super Rugby is a different matter.
Tsutomu Kishimoto
As a result, players such as Beauden Barrett - who has featured for both Suntory Sungoliath and Toyota Verblitz in JRLO - have called for NZ Rugby to pull out the stops to make the top Japanese sides a full part of Super Rugby.Shoji did not rule that out at some point in the future but said a lot more groundwork was needed before that became compelling for the Japanese.
“That has to take some steps, because all integrated types of models firstly need the fans’ understanding,” he said.
“Japanese fans, at least at this moment, don't understand the structure or history of Super Rugby well.
“And in that [potential] integration of the league, it [will] have some challenge to get the understanding from Japanese fans.
“And of course the second reason is... the cost effectiveness, or financial feasibility.
“Of course, the cost of moving to each place is quite big.
“Therefore, for these two reasons, we need to take some steps, at least, before we are moving to some integration.”
@mikedogz said in Super Rugby - The Future:
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JRLO is a growth league, with last season’s final drawing 56,486 fans.
-
Super Rugby’s longer-term structure remains unclear.
-
Kiwi Super sides won’t play in Japan in 2025.
The All Blacks play Japan this weekend in the latest chapter of a deepening rugby relationship between the two countries, but a potential merged competition between Super Rugby Pacific and Japan Rugby League One remains some distance off.
Super Rugby Pacific chief executive Jack Mesley is currently working on a strategy for 2026 onwards, telling The Post last month that he had an “open mind” to new teams.
Japan has often been mentioned as the natural next step for Super Rugby, although that is based on the premise that the Japanese are as keen as New Zealand and Australia.
However, in an interview with The Post, JRLO chief operating officer Hajime Shoji has outlined a more nuanced but firm position, stating that Japan first wanted post-season playoff games of real consequence before any moves towards a potential merger.
“The meaning of the game is the most important [thing], just an exchange is not enough,” Shoji said, referring to the Blues and Chiefs’ preseason fixtures in February.
“In our long-term horizon, it’s how to realise the value of the game, especially for the competition level and the fans’ enthusiasm.
“So, some formality for the game is quite important.
“And of course, commercial success or commercial performance is also very important.
“Once we can have a meaningful format for the game many Japanese corporations, especially who have business in Australia and New Zealand, have a good appetite to support us.”
The Blues and Chiefs played in what was marketed as “Cross-Border Rugby” before Super Rugby and while Shoji said the concept was “quite successful” as relationship-building exercises, they lacked true meaning for both countries.
Only one of the four games in Cross-Border Rugby truly caught the eye - when Robbie Deans put out a full-strength Saitama Wild Knights to play, and beat, the Chiefs - and there will be no repeat in 2025.
Beauden Barrett in action for Suntory Sungoliath in Japan’s domestic rugby competition.
The preferred option for JRLO is to have a formalised competition at the end of Super Rugby Pacific and Japan’s domestic competition, when sides from all countries would have access to their test players.
“We are keeping the discussion [open] for our future collaboration,” Shoji said.
“We are discussing the many options for the cross border format, for our mutual benefit.
“It’s still under negotiation so I cannot talk [about it] much, but basically one of the option is integrated type of playoffs after each [domestic] playoff.
“And another option is having the some games in the midst of the season [in Japan].
“We have some preference but our discussion is based on mutual benefit.”
JRLO’s negotiating position - essentially a form of stick and carrot - reflects the growing self-confidence of a league that is growing its fanbase.
Last season’s final between Toshiba Brave Lupus Tokyo, coached by Todd Blackadder, and the Saitama Wild Knights attracted a crowd of 56,486 in late May, which was more than the Japan-England test match in June.
Blackadder and Deans have been joined by Ian Foster, Dave Rennie, Kieran Crowley, Tabai Matson, Glenn Delaney and Wayne Pivac in the coaching ranks in Japan, lifting the competition’s rugby IQ in a big way.
The All Blacks enjoy support and recognition in Japan but Super Rugby is a different matter.
Tsutomu Kishimoto
As a result, players such as Beauden Barrett - who has featured for both Suntory Sungoliath and Toyota Verblitz in JRLO - have called for NZ Rugby to pull out the stops to make the top Japanese sides a full part of Super Rugby.Shoji did not rule that out at some point in the future but said a lot more groundwork was needed before that became compelling for the Japanese.
“That has to take some steps, because all integrated types of models firstly need the fans’ understanding,” he said.
“Japanese fans, at least at this moment, don't understand the structure or history of Super Rugby well.
“And in that [potential] integration of the league, it [will] have some challenge to get the understanding from Japanese fans.
“And of course the second reason is... the cost effectiveness, or financial feasibility.
“Of course, the cost of moving to each place is quite big.
“Therefore, for these two reasons, we need to take some steps, at least, before we are moving to some integration.”
So to summarize... nothing will happen because this would mean more Super games and NZR only cares about preserving the players for international duties.
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