All Blacks 2024
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Agreed completely. My comment is dictated on the game plan being built to suit the top 23, and then picking the squad as like-for-like replacements, rather than "the next best player" which means if option 1 is out, you need to tweak how you play as well as swap guys in and out.
Thus my comment on AJ Lam is as the JB replacement.So are you saying, if Jordie went down and you want to keep the same game plan you would pick AJ Lam because he is, in your opinion, a like for like replacement?
no. you are completely missed the "if" part of the post to create a "gotcha"
Nah I’m not, I’m not in it for that and couldn’t care about ‘gotchas’. Just trying to understand what you mean by like for like with AJ Lam to JB.
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Agreed completely. My comment is dictated on the game plan being built to suit the top 23, and then picking the squad as like-for-like replacements, rather than "the next best player" which means if option 1 is out, you need to tweak how you play as well as swap guys in and out.
Thus my comment on AJ Lam is as the JB replacement.So are you saying, if Jordie went down and you want to keep the same game plan you would pick AJ Lam because he is, in your opinion, a like for like replacement?
no. you are completely missed the "if" part of the post to create a "gotcha"
Nah I’m not, I’m not in it for that and couldn’t care about ‘gotchas’. Just trying to understand what you mean by like for like with AJ Lam to JB.
this is my post:
"sort of adding to my point above, if the AB game style is dependent on a big munter to run straight from 12, who is the 2nd best player in NZ to do that? If it is AJ Lam, then pick him. Is he a better player than, say, ALB? no, but is he the best fit for the game style the coaches want? if the answer is yes, then that's how you select"
It's not even about AJ Lam, he's purely the example because people were debating him at the time. I don't know nearly enough about him as a player to advocate for him one way or the other. What i am advocating is a system.
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@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Agreed completely. My comment is dictated on the game plan being built to suit the top 23, and then picking the squad as like-for-like replacements, rather than "the next best player" which means if option 1 is out, you need to tweak how you play as well as swap guys in and out.
Thus my comment on AJ Lam is as the JB replacement.So are you saying, if Jordie went down and you want to keep the same game plan you would pick AJ Lam because he is, in your opinion, a like for like replacement?
no. you are completely missed the "if" part of the post to create a "gotcha"
Nah I’m not, I’m not in it for that and couldn’t care about ‘gotchas’. Just trying to understand what you mean by like for like with AJ Lam to JB.
this is my post:
"sort of adding to my point above, if the AB game style is dependent on a big munter to run straight from 12, who is the 2nd best player in NZ to do that? If it is AJ Lam, then pick him. Is he a better player than, say, ALB? no, but is he the best fit for the game style the coaches want? if the answer is yes, then that's how you select"
It's not even about AJ Lam, he's purely the example because people were debating him at the time. I don't know nearly enough about him as a player to advocate for him one way or the other. What i am advocating is a system.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Agreed completely. My comment is dictated on the game plan being built to suit the top 23, and then picking the squad as like-for-like replacements, rather than "the next best player" which means if option 1 is out, you need to tweak how you play as well as swap guys in and out.
Thus my comment on AJ Lam is as the JB replacement.So are you saying, if Jordie went down and you want to keep the same game plan you would pick AJ Lam because he is, in your opinion, a like for like replacement?
no. you are completely missed the "if" part of the post to create a "gotcha"
Nah I’m not, I’m not in it for that and couldn’t care about ‘gotchas’. Just trying to understand what you mean by like for like with AJ Lam to JB.
this is my post:
"sort of adding to my point above, if the AB game style is dependent on a big munter to run straight from 12, who is the 2nd best player in NZ to do that? If it is AJ Lam, then pick him. Is he a better player than, say, ALB? no, but is he the best fit for the game style the coaches want? if the answer is yes, then that's how you select"
It's not even about AJ Lam, he's purely the example because people were debating him at the time. I don't know nearly enough about him as a player to advocate for him one way or the other. What i am advocating is a system.
I’m with you now. At first I thought it was a AJ Lam to Jordie Barrett comparison and I was thinking what has this conversation come to.
Working and going on the fern isn’t recommended, you can miss the minor details that make it all make sense haha. Cheers mate.
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In a list of guys that play 12 like Barrett, Lam is right up there.
Probably:
Lam
Proctor
PoihipiWho am I missing?
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Lam is barely 4th or 5th choice in any position in my view. I would have Billy P over Rieko at the moment too. I do hope they pick the two best players in every position and not go down the versatile 4th or 5th choice route.
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I would have Billy P over Rieko at the moment too
ha ha ha ha. This thread is going crazy now.
69 tests, 36 tries, he's probably one of the first names on the team sheet. Billy P has his strengths, but he's a rookie at Test level.
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@ARHS said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I would have Billy P over Rieko at the moment too
ha ha ha ha. This thread is going crazy now.
69 tests, 36 tries, he's probably one of the first names on the team sheet. Billy P has his strengths, but he's a rookie at Test level.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I would have Billy P over Rieko at the moment too
ha ha ha ha. This thread is going crazy now.
69 tests, 36 tries, he's probably one of the first names on the team sheet. Billy P has his strengths, but he's a rookie at Test level.
Of all the posts, this is the one that's crazy? It's not like Rieko has set the world alight at centre and he's not exactly having a standout season. Be honest, he's only the incumbent because it's been ridiculously slim pickings - he's not even close to being a pick in any world XV I'd say.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I would have Billy P over Rieko at the moment too
ha ha ha ha. This thread is going crazy now.
69 tests, 36 tries, he's probably one of the first names on the team sheet. Billy P has his strengths, but he's a rookie at Test level.
Of all the posts, this is the one that's crazy? It's not like Rieko has set the world alight at centre and he's not exactly having a standout season. Be honest, he's only the incumbent because it's been ridiculously slim pickings - he's not even close to being a pick in any world XV I'd say.
@Bones is that the standard?
He's probably not world XV, but he's not far below it. People over-react to him, but he's playing well - and has for a while. He was excellent at the RWC, on the biggest stage, and shut down some much vaunted centre combos.
This is a bit like saying ma'a hasn't played well in Super, so we should drop him from the ABs.
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@Bones is that the standard?
He's probably not world XV, but he's not far below it. People over-react to him, but he's playing well - and has for a while. He was excellent at the RWC, on the biggest stage, and shut down some much vaunted centre combos.
This is a bit like saying ma'a hasn't played well in Super, so we should drop him from the ABs.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bones is that the standard?
He's probably not world XV, but he's not far below it. People over-react to him, but he's playing well - and has for a while. He was excellent at the RWC, on the biggest stage, and shut down some much vaunted centre combos.
This is a bit like saying ma'a hasn't played well in Super, so we should drop him from the ABs.
Of course that's the standard, why wouldn't you want someone who's considered one of the best in the world?
I don't even know how to address the second paragraph, apart from to say that's as ridiculous as pretending Cane is akin to McCaw.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I would have Billy P over Rieko at the moment too
ha ha ha ha. This thread is going crazy now.
69 tests, 36 tries, he's probably one of the first names on the team sheet. Billy P has his strengths, but he's a rookie at Test level.
Of all the posts, this is the one that's crazy? It's not like Rieko has set the world alight at centre and he's not exactly having a standout season. Be honest, he's only the incumbent because it's been ridiculously slim pickings - he's not even close to being a pick in any world XV I'd say.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I would have Billy P over Rieko at the moment too
ha ha ha ha. This thread is going crazy now.
69 tests, 36 tries, he's probably one of the first names on the team sheet. Billy P has his strengths, but he's a rookie at Test level.
Of all the posts, this is the one that's crazy? It's not like Rieko has set the world alight at centre and he's not exactly having a standout season. Be honest, he's only the incumbent because it's been ridiculously slim pickings - he's not even close to being a pick in any world XV I'd say.
With Rieko - Super form doesn't = test form it seems (like a long line of Blues; Kaino, Rokocoko etc)
Rieko is having a better Super Rugby season this year than last year (despite two nasty head knocks) and he had a terrific test season last year (people easily forget he threw two try assist passes in our QF win over Ireland). It's also worth noting Rieko has played well in the two playoff games this year.
There are certainly aspects to Proctor's game that look better than Rieko's (he can kick, he has better hands etc) but there are question marks as to whether he can transfer it to test level.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bones is that the standard?
He's probably not world XV, but he's not far below it. People over-react to him, but he's playing well - and has for a while. He was excellent at the RWC, on the biggest stage, and shut down some much vaunted centre combos.
This is a bit like saying ma'a hasn't played well in Super, so we should drop him from the ABs.
Of course that's the standard, why wouldn't you want someone who's considered one of the best in the world?
I don't even know how to address the second paragraph, apart from to say that's as ridiculous as pretending Cane is akin to McCaw.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ARHS said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I would have Billy P over Rieko at the moment too
ha ha ha ha. This thread is going crazy now.
69 tests, 36 tries, he's probably one of the first names on the team sheet. Billy P has his strengths, but he's a rookie at Test level.
Of all the posts, this is the one that's crazy? It's not like Rieko has set the world alight at centre and he's not exactly having a standout season. Be honest, he's only the incumbent because it's been ridiculously slim pickings - he's not even close to being a pick in any world XV I'd say.
With Rieko - Super form doesn't = test form it seems (like a long line of Blues; Kaino, Rokocoko etc)
Rieko is having a better Super Rugby season this year than last year (despite two nasty head knocks) and he had a terrific test season last year (people easily forget he threw two try assist passes in our QF win over Ireland). It's also worth noting Rieko has played well in the two playoff games this year.
There are certainly aspects to Proctor's game that look better than Rieko's (he can kick, he has better hands etc) but there are question marks as to whether he can transfer it to test level.
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@KiwiMurph oh of course, but I think it's one of the least crazy posts on here to suggest it's worth seeing if Proctor can translate.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@KiwiMurph oh of course, but I think it's one of the least crazy posts on here to suggest it's worth seeing if Proctor can translate.
That's fair. I think "only the incumbent because of ridiculously slim pickings" is harsh. He had an excellent World Cup at 13.
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@Bones the comparison was Procter over Reiko. Based, presumably on Super form, hence my comment.
Rieko has been very very good in Black, and there is no chance Procter goes past him based on Super.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Rieko has been very very good in Black, and there is no chance Procter goes past him based on Super.
So you'd be prepared to season and consume a delicious hat if he did?
Come on man, we've had people saying things like Miller is in the frame and you jump on the post saying that a guy playing excellently in a position with zero depth is worth a punt.
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We are not going to know how Proctor performs at test level until he’s selected in the ABs so it makes sense to select him. Hopefully he gets an opportunity to start alongside Jordie who he’s created a very good combo with. Proctor is capable of overtaking Ioane eventually because he has all the attributes to be a world class centre aswell.
Let’s hope he can take the most of his opportunities (if selected).
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lol Reiko would start for basically everyone. Who is better? And don't say fucking Am, who hasn't done shit in years.
Reiko would transform Ireland for instance.
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@Bones the comparison was Procter over Reiko. Based, presumably on Super form, hence my comment.
Rieko has been very very good in Black, and there is no chance Procter goes past him based on Super.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Bones the comparison was Procter over Reiko. Based, presumably on Super form, hence my comment.
Rieko has been very very good in Black, and there is no chance Procter goes past him based on Super.
the first point...what else would it be based on seeing as Proctor hasnt played test rugby?
second point...is that where we are? super rugby is no longer where people put their hand up for higher honors?....we have to wait for RI to get old and retire before anyone can be considered in the 13 jersey
the whole argument of someone is only proven at super level and unproven at test level...when they havent been given a chance to prove themselves at test level is maddening, much like saying form at test level from 9 months ago completely eclipses form from the last few months....sure, its a consideration...as annoying as it is some players only really shine in Black...but it cant be everything
this is where the joke about being harder to be dropped from the AB's than make the AB's becomes less funny
