All Blacks 2024
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But seriously the crusaders had at best a dismal year.
Scrum held up, Lio-Willey was good, lineout was awful for most of the season.
Got no problem with the props selected, surprised by Bell, pleased Reece made the squad. Blackadder worth a look, Barret a definite.So lots of whos the best third hooker in the country ..... if you look longer term ... still a bit surprised thats its bell but a lot of that is around the lineout performance which isnt always about the hooker. (?)
Then its whos the next best No 6 and when on the field blackadder certainly was in the conversation ... just needs to stay on the field.@Lancaster-Park Yeah I see both sides of the argument regarding Bell. Like, yeah, he was horrific imo for a lot of the season and I had this argument earlier in the thread that it us worth looking for a long term option if there aren't any standouts as the 3rd option, but I can also see why people would be pissed when he's been a shoe in from the moment he stepped into professional rugby. His throwing this year especially was horrendous, but there's no reason why he can't improve on it, be that in the ABs environment or in the AB XV/NPC.
Most of the other selections in the pack we saw coming anyway apart from Tosi and yeah, let's not kid ourselves here, leaving Sotutu out is just plain dislike for the guy. He could end up being the Akira Ioane of the Hansen Era.
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While I can completely understand a bit of the frustration at some of the selections, I think people are letting one or two decisions cloud their judgement on the squad (and Robertson and co) as a whole.
Of the seven Crusaders selected, who didn't deserve their spot?
Taylor, Williams, Newell, Barrett and Reece are all incumbent All Blacks and there are very strong cases for all five to get a call-up. Blackadder has had some strong games in the black jersey and, worst case scenario, he breaks early in the year and is replaced by someone else.
Bell is the only one of the seven that is a real head scratcher, but it's not like there were any other obvious options available to the selectors. Until Taukei'aho was injured, there weren't any other hooker names being bandied about because none of them were even close to the level of Taukei'aho/Aumua/Taylor. Riccitelli has performed well this year but it's not like he's been banging the door down for a number of seasons or has the physical attributes that would make anyone stand up and take notice. Is he realistically going to be starting a World Cup knock-out game in four year's time against the Springboks? Would he measure up against the Springboks (or England) now? Further, Riccitelli is two years older than Aumua and three years older than Taukei'aho.
Bringing in a young hooker to learn from Taylor and Aumua (and Corey Flynn) makes sense and when you look around the country, it's really only Bell and Thompson who have previously been earmarked for the future (with their selection in the All Blacks XV). With Thompson's future rumoured to be up in the ear and Robertson and Ryan already familiar with Bell, it's not the most outrageous selection, all things considered.
And for the people who are now bringing race into the equation, four of the five debutants are Maori/Pasifika. I think some disappointing conclusions are being jumped to when there are far more sensible answers...
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Of the seven Crusaders selected, who didn't deserve their spot?
Bell and Blackadder should be nowhere near this squad.
Ardie Savea should have been captain instead of Scott Barrett.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Of the seven Crusaders selected, who didn't deserve their spot?
Bell and Blackadder should be nowhere near this squad.
Ardie Savea should have been captain instead of Scott Barrett.
A lot of people would disagree with Savea as captain.
And a lot of people would (and do) disagree with the selections of Vaa'i, Sititi, Jacobson, Christie, Perenara, Barrett, Perofeta - none of whom play for the Crusaders. So is Robertson (the man who ultimately would have had final say on the squad, regardless of the various selectors' specialty areas) biased, or does he just not share the exact same opinion with everyone on the internet?
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Of the seven Crusaders selected, who didn't deserve their spot?
Bell and Blackadder should be nowhere near this squad.
Ardie Savea should have been captain instead of Scott Barrett.
A lot of people would disagree with Savea as captain.
And a lot of people would (and do) disagree with the selections of Vaa'i, Sititi, Jacobson, Christie, Perenara, Barrett, Perofeta - none of whom play for the Crusaders. So is Robertson (the man who ultimately would have had final say on the squad, regardless of the various selectors' specialty areas) biased, or does he just not share the exact same opinion with everyone on the internet?
@Mr-Fish Hoskins Sotutu was in almost everyone else's squad. His stats this year were amazing and he has developed a real edge to his game. Opponents fear him.
Yes, it's ultimately Robertson's judgement that matters. But it doesn't sit easy to me that he has passed over an outstanding talent in great form from a rival province, then shown loyalty to his old chums from what has been a misfiring outfit this year.
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@Mr-Fish Hoskins Sotutu was in almost everyone else's squad. His stats this year were amazing and he has developed a real edge to his game. Opponents fear him.
Yes, it's ultimately Robertson's judgement that matters. But it doesn't sit easy to me that he has passed over an outstanding talent in great form from a rival province, then shown loyalty to his old chums from what has been a misfiring outfit this year.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish Hoskins Sotutu was in almost everyone else's squad. His stats this year were amazing and he has developed a real edge to his game. Opponents fear him.
Yes, it's ultimately Robertson's judgement that matters. But it doesn't sit easy to me that he has passed over an outstanding talent in great form from a rival province, then shown loyalty to his old chums from what has been a misfiring outfit this year.
Settle down
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Phew. At least my source was on the mark.
@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Phew. At least my source was on the mark.
Sauce
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@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Phew. At least my source was on the mark.
Sauce
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Phew. At least my source was on the mark.
Sauce
With Razor being dyslexic the discussions concerning Sotutu and Sititi could have been interesting!
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But its 12 that is more worrying to me.
If we want a barrett style 12 - uses power to get over the gain line, good backup kicker, good distributer then on that basis we have 3 x 13s in ALB, Proctor and Ioane then we only 1 x 12 in the squad.
Dont get me wrong I like ALB but he doesnt play the same style as barret at 12. Will they try to convert Proctor?
Who is the next barret style 12?@Lancaster-Park said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
But its 12 that is more worrying to me.
If we want a barrett style 12 - uses power to get over the gain line, good backup kicker, good distributer then on that basis we have 3 x 13s in ALB, Proctor and Ioane then we only 1 x 12 in the squad.
Dont get me wrong I like ALB but he doesnt play the same style as barret at 12. Will they try to convert Proctor?
Who is the next barret style 12?AJ Lam?
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Do Robertson, Ryan and co. have a race problem?
Selection after selection after selection, they have overlooked a brown-skinned player for the paler alternative. A really grim start to the supposed new era.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Do Robertson, Ryan and co. have a race problem?
Selection after selection after selection, they have overlooked a brown-skinned player for the paler alternative. A really grim start to the supposed new era.
Thats a bit of a stretch
The only selections that could have gone a different way, in my opinionLove for Perofeta
Sotutu for Sititi
Riccitelli for BellMaybe Christie for someone, but he is a current AB 9
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I like the Tosi pick - he's a weapon
No ability to say I had him as a bolter because I didn't say it anywhere, but really like his selection.
Who is the next TH? Ofa? So Ofa covers LH, so effectively Tosi beats out XN?
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
really enjoying these meltdowns
bring on the seasonThe glimpses of immaturity are a wee bit scary though. The toys have really been biffed from the cot in a variety of ways.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
really enjoying these meltdowns
bring on the seasonThe glimpses of immaturity are a wee bit scary though. The toys have really been biffed from the cot in a variety of ways.
there were some here thought with robertson as coach everything would be fine he would pick their players
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To be fair to Razor this is his first match and has erred on the side of caution.
I would have gone Ratima-DMac, Love 15.
Sotutu very unlucky that Savea happens to play 8.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
To be fair to Razor this is his first match and has erred on the side of caution.
Looking back for a second
I recall a previous coach getting heat for being conservative in his first selections.As at that time I expect the most conservative selection is picking the team most likely to win.
It's a pretty good squad nonetheless.
Questions for me are:
- Bell over Rikkirik
- Sititi v Sotutu
- lotsa wingers and no fullbacks
Struggling to get angry over too much though.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
So just to be clear: The team that couldn't make a finals series of top eight in a 12 team competition has more All Blacks than the team that won?
They won how many in a row?
All the crusaders haven't turned to poo because their coach has.
(Not supporting the Bell pick though)
So form means nothing. Got it.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
So just to be clear: The team that couldn't make a finals series of top eight in a 12 team competition has more All Blacks than the team that won?
They won how many in a row?
All the crusaders haven't turned to poo because their coach has.
(Not supporting the Bell pick though)
So form means nothing. Got it.
Form is important, and less permanent, than Class apparently.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I like the Tosi pick - he's a weapon
No ability to say I had him as a bolter because I didn't say it anywhere, but really like his selection.
Who is the next TH? Ofa? So Ofa covers LH, so effectively Tosi beats out XN?
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Who is the next TH? Ofa? So Ofa covers LH, so effectively Tosi beats out XN?
I don't think Ryan sees Ofa as a TH now, so it might have been between him and Numia for the last LH position. Ofa's stocks would have risen if only 5 props were selected.
I won't be surprised if Ofa isn't in the 23 for the 1st test based on Ryan's choices at the RWC.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
You think Robertson told him so early in the season that he wasn't going to be in his All Blacks plans that he had enough time to arrange a contract in Japan?
I think he got the word towards the end of the season. Watch his leaving interview - he gives the strong impression of someone who doesn't want to go - but is making the rational financial choice.
Look, fair play, Razor and his boys get to choose their team. But they need to take accountability for that. I'd say Sotutu's off - you don't post that and hang about. he can't do more than this season, so if this isn't enough that'll be him done. It's a real shame.
Razor better win, and win well, and show us that his picks are solid. I would love to see them deveop players in camp (remember how flaky Coles was). But let's see. At the moment it looks a very red and black perspective on the world. Havili? Really?
If he didn't want to go, he wouldn't have gone.
I don't think anyone on here is such a strong body language and emotion expert that they can infer from his pre-recorded post that he's been tipped off late in the season that he isn't going to feature in the All Blacks and that he should sign a last-minute contract in Japan. Normally these contracts are signed almost a year in advance - he likely inked the deal in February or March.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
You think Robertson told him so early in the season that he wasn't going to be in his All Blacks plans that he had enough time to arrange a contract in Japan?
I think he got the word towards the end of the season. Watch his leaving interview - he gives the strong impression of someone who doesn't want to go - but is making the rational financial choice.
Look, fair play, Razor and his boys get to choose their team. But they need to take accountability for that. I'd say Sotutu's off - you don't post that and hang about. he can't do more than this season, so if this isn't enough that'll be him done. It's a real shame.
Razor better win, and win well, and show us that his picks are solid. I would love to see them deveop players in camp (remember how flaky Coles was). But let's see. At the moment it looks a very red and black perspective on the world. Havili? Really?
If he didn't want to go, he wouldn't have gone.
I don't think anyone on here is such a strong body language and emotion expert that they can infer from his pre-recorded post that he's been tipped off late in the season that he isn't going to feature in the All Blacks and that he should sign a last-minute contract in Japan. Normally these contracts are signed almost a year in advance - he likely inked the deal in February or March.
Did you watch the retirement piece? He had a year left on his contract - another real indication he got the word.
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The biggest concern of the squad is the fact that only three specialist locks were selected, and the two likely starters have had recent/current injuries. Darry might get a cap sooner rather than later.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
The biggest concern of the squad is the fact that only three specialist locks were selected, and the two likely starters have had recent/current injuries. Darry might get a cap sooner rather than later.
Also worth pointing out that Vai’i is a power lock with little power
