All Blacks vs England I
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People are talking nonsense here if they think there's no difference to the Foster era from tonights game.
Also the blatant disregard of the quality of the English team, this is a really good England team who beat Ireland 2 games ago and were about to beat France in France if not for a penalty right on full time.
To beat them first up with a brand new coaching setup and all the noise that would have come with it is extremely impressive.
I'm also amazed at some people here genuinely asking for Plummer over Dmac.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs England I:
People are talking nonsense here if they think there's no difference to the Foster era from tonights game.
Also the blatant disregard of the quality of the English team, this is a really good England team who beat Ireland 2 games ago and were about to beat France in France if not for a penalty right on full time.
To beat them first up with a brand new coaching setup and all the noise that would have come with it is extremely impressive.
I'm also amazed at some people here genuinely asking for Plummer over Dmac.
Well, the game-plan seemed different. They went backward in phase play before they kicked it back to the opposition. Fair enough, Robertson isn't going to change things overnight and needs time and i'm def. not bagging him, but people expected some difference.
I don't think opposition team quality comes into it when discussing AB performance and doesn't give a coach a free pass. Ireland were the no.1 team in the world in 2022 - not just "a really good team" - but that didn't stop people (rightly) criticising Foster. I thought it no more impressive than any other new coach. And, don't forget, the argument was that a brand new coaching set-up was the dogs bollocks
Finally, Plummer is good under pressure - even with Christie's slowness - and DMac looked out of shape in the second half, so they make a valid point.
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Will comment before I read the thread.
Pretty standard first test for the ABs. Happy they won and expect a "response" for the second game.
Pat T was very good as was Perofeta. Under a different ref our scrum dominance would have been more significant.
Saw the same old shite I complained about with Foster's teams so not happy. Aimless kicking then a "pop" kick from BB put us under pressure in the last few minutes. WTF! -
Will comment before I read the thread.
Pretty standard first test for the ABs. Happy they won and expect a "response" for the second game.
Pat T was very good as was Perofeta. Under a different ref our scrum dominance would have been more significant.
Saw the same old shite I complained about with Foster's teams so not happy. Aimless kicking then a "pop" kick from BB put us under pressure in the last few minutes. WTF! -
Also, they’ve only had a couple of weeks together under the new coaching regime. Jesus, give them some time before passing final judgement.
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks vs England I:
Also, they’ve only had a couple of weeks together under the new coaching regime. Jesus, give them some time before passing final judgement.
Take your point but no-one is passing final judgement.
I was expected little change, but he doesn't seem to have added anything in that two weeks and that's what people are commenting on.
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@Gunner Please link ONE game under Foster against a northern rush defense that we found that much space out wide.
Not even close, I have not seen us create that level of space since before the Lions came down in 2017 and suffocated us with their defense, which was to be a precursor for the next 8 years of games against northern opposition.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Gunner Please link ONE game under Foster against a northern rush defense that we found that much space out wide.
England in 2022?
Italy in RWC2023? -
@mariner4life Our line speed was shit. Our pattern was shit. How do you put pressure on the ruck with that kind of presence?
@Tim said in All Blacks vs England I:
@mariner4life Our line speed was shit. Our pattern was shit. How do you put pressure on the ruck with that kind of presence?
Apart from the set-pieces and defence, I've been underwhelmed by our forwards performance - particularly at the ruck - for the last few years. Really inconsistent and flaky.
We seem to have tried every 6-7 combination available. Wonder if we're trying to fit everything around Ardie instead of a combination greater than the sum of its parts.
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs England I:
@mariner4life Our line speed was shit. Our pattern was shit. How do you put pressure on the ruck with that kind of presence?
Apart from the set-pieces and defence, I've been underwhelmed by our forwards performance - particularly at the ruck - for the last few years. Really inconsistent and flaky.
We seem to have tried every 6-7 combination available. Wonder if we're trying to fit everything around Ardie instead of a combination greater than the sum of its parts.
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@Victor-Meldrew I am thinking about 2010 when Read established himself as a genuine number 8, after the Rodney So'oialo period. A period in which we didn't win a world cup.
Now who could fill that role ...
@Tim said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Victor-Meldrew I am thinking about 2010 when Read established himself as a genuine number 8, after the Rodney So'oialo period. A period in which we didn't win a world cup.
Now who could fill that role ...
Robertson missed a trick there. Bringing Sotutu into the environment, if not in the squad, to do the work-on's would have been a sensible thing to do. He did it for very fringe player like Havili
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs England I:
Rieko's handling
Always a problem
Wish Rieko could have a game at wing outside a centre who plays just like him. Ever heard of 'setting up your outsides'?
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Telea’s non-chase of the high ball has been ratshit
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks vs England I:
Telea’s non-chase of the high ball has been ratshit
Still don't think he's 100%.
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@Kirwan Carried better than the others too.
Savea is doing fuck all on defence and at the ruck.
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He was saying use it and got annoyed so penalised us
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs England I:
He was saying use it and got annoyed so penalised us
EDG had been standing up under Stuart's armpit, not strictly legally throughout H1. FCS don't do that when ref on your side!!!!
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It seemed we were clearly trying something new on attack to offset rush defense and get around it. As I stated, it's the most space I've seen us create against it since the north first started employing it in mass after the Lions tour here.
We seemed to shelf it at halftime and go for a more pragmatic and simpler approach, perhaps just desperate to get the win first up and adapt to what turned into a grindfest, but it felt like we were very close to the gates completely opening up today if we executed better during that first half and built momentum.
They may be more comfortable using it for longer and tighter games as they get more time together.
But this is very reminiscent of the early days of Graham Henry and the flat backline approach which was very controversial at the time and not successful initially but reaped rewards at the end of Henrys first year and long after that.
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De Groot left his invisibility cloak in the sheds
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs England I:
De Groot left his invisibility cloak in the sheds
Just that ref came over to his side.
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@Winger said in All Blacks vs England I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs England I:
Telea has been very poor without the ball too
Telea was right in the grove a while back. It seems to have deserted him now
Agreed. Narawa would be better
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs England I:
@Winger said in All Blacks vs England I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs England I:
Telea has been very poor without the ball too
Telea was right in the grove a while back. It seems to have deserted him now
Agreed. Narawa would be better
Not at 11.
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Taylor’s throwing has been shite.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs England I:
Taylor’s throwing has been shite.
Seemed to go right off after halftime.
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@Gunner Please link ONE game under Foster against a northern rush defense that we found that much space out wide.
Not even close, I have not seen us create that level of space since before the Lions came down in 2017 and suffocated us with their defense, which was to be a precursor for the next 8 years of games against northern opposition.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs England I:
Please link ONE game under Foster against a northern rush defense that we found that much space out wide.
This is hilarious. We scored two tries, and sixteen points. It was as far from creating space out wide as it could get.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs England I:
Much better 2nd half by scooter
Hasn't been playing much rugby.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs England I:
Yeah Taylor was average, aumua much better
Taylor was absolutely first class in the first half scrums. But second half lineout blips destroyed our momentum.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs England I:
Please link ONE game under Foster against a northern rush defense that we found that much space out wide.
This is hilarious. We scored two tries, and sixteen points. It was as far from creating space out wide as it could get.
@Tim Is the world binary to you? Can you not think in more detail?
We only employed this pattern for the first half, and resorted to territory and a much more narrow game in the second half, so pointless to tie all future utility of this pattern to just the points scored at the end of this one game, the literal first game we've employed this.
There are clearly confounding variables you're purposely ignoring. Even Razor himself said the thing, stating that he felt we created many opportunities and felt we were close to breaking the game open.
This is a style that is clearly going to be built upon, and I saw enough with the actual moments in the game that we were able to get around a defensive pattern that we have not been able to for the last 8 years.
