All Blacks vs England 2
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@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Not bad for 3 weeks together really.
Not really buying that. Apart from the scrum, the forwards were shit and that's the same forwards coach and pretty much the same players as the RWC squad. In many ways we're going backwards.
But credit to Robertson for going back to last year's dual playmaker tactics to get the win.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Not bad for 3 weeks together really.
Not really buying that. Apart from the scrum, the forwards were shit and that's the same forwards coach and pretty much the same players as the RWC squad. In many ways we're going backwards.
But credit to Robertson for going back to last year's dual playmaker tactics to get the win.
Our counter rucking was pretty good.
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The very poor pattern of out the back to a solo forward hitting it up might work in Super Rugby but it has no place in test rugby.
England keep it close to the ruck running off nine or forward to forward. You don’t see them passing well behind gainline for a league style hit up.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
The very poor pattern of out the back to a solo forward hitting it up might work in Super Rugby but it has no place in test rugby.
England keep it close to the ruck running off nine or forward to forward. You don’t see them passing well behind gainline for a league style hit up.
And yet that’s what created a lot of our chances
When we passed it to a back that is…. -
Gutted, good first XV but our bench is weak and our accuracy is terrible when in good positions at the moment and it’s cost us in both tests. We desperately need to find a tight head from somewhere.
All Blacks did what they do, scrum half change was critical, Barret was class. Opportunity missed but I’m looking forward to the November test.
@Dodge said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Gutted, good first XV but our bench is weak and our accuracy is terrible when in good positions at the moment and it’s cost us in both tests. We desperately need to find a tight head from somewhere.
All Blacks did what they do, scrum half change was critical, Barret was class. Opportunity missed but I’m looking forward to the November test.
England are a good team, first 60 they were the better team.
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@Chris said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@sparky said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Chris That's the forecast according to the BBC for next Saturday.
Surprised it's not going to be warmer. https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5391811
Yeah I thought it might be hotter from what I remember being there a couple of years ago.
oh the humidity!
Yeah I know about humidity where I live.
Lol
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@sparky said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Chris That's the forecast according to the BBC for next Saturday.
Surprised it's not going to be warmer. https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5391811
Yeah I thought it might be hotter from what I remember being there a couple of years ago.
oh the humidity!
Yeah I know about humidity where I live.
Lol
It’s not hot up there just a bit warm
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Scrums were great. Tackling was good.
@sparky said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Scrums were great. Tackling was good.
Except from Jordie who missed many tackles including being palmed off about three tackles in a row.
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SoCal in summer, I’m surprised it’s not hotter.
It’s also a fucking awesome place to go. Love it there
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks vs England 2:
SoCal in summer, I’m surprised it’s not hotter.
It’s also a fucking awesome place to go. Love it there
Yeah great place.
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Very Razorish.. finding a way to win.
Not bad for 3 weeks together really.
They will only get better.Think a lot of people not giving enough England credit.... Their defensive pressure was immense.
@Mattasaurus I’ve watched this forum get more and more cynical year on year.
We will never be as dominant as most expect us to be in this era of rugby.
Enjoy a bloody good win where we went to a plan B and it bloody worked
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@Mattasaurus I’ve watched this forum get more and more cynical year on year.
We will never be as dominant as most expect us to be in this era of rugby.
Enjoy a bloody good win where we went to a plan B and it bloody worked
@MadGav said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Mattasaurus I’ve watched this forum get more and more cynical year on year.
We will never be as dominant as most expect us to be in this era of rugby.
Enjoy a bloody good win where we went to a plan B and it bloody worked
Fuck you, I want dominance
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England 2:
So one series down and all the old problems are still apparent:
- An inability to exit.
- Aimless, uncontested kicking.
- No way around the rush defence.
- Our own defence is porous on the edges.
We played with very little prep time with an injured lock (PT) and prop (EdG) and winger (probably) and 2 or 3 rusty players (Savea and BB-although BB didn't look rusty in test 2 at all), some newbies, and still won both games, found clear weaknesses to improve, have a better idea of NH standard, and don't have many new injuries (TP and ?)
So that is good, in my book. They now though need to show improved cohesion, selection, organization, consistency, leadership, strategy and skills. So plenty to work on.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England 2:
So one series down and all the old problems are still apparent:
- An inability to exit.
- Aimless, uncontested kicking.
- No way around the rush defence.
- Our own defence is porous on the edges.
We played with very little prep time with an injured lock (PT) and prop (EdG) and winger (probably) and 2 or 3 rusty players (Savea and BB-although BB didn't look rusty in test 2 at all), some newbies, and still won both games, found clear weaknesses to improve, have a better idea of NH standard, and don't have many new injuries (TP and ?)
Scrum aside, It was a dire forwards performance with the same core of experienced players. We got worse as the series progressed.
So that is good, in my book. They now though need to show improved cohesion, selection, organization, consistency, leadership, strategy and skills. So plenty to work on.
Love your irony.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
How shit was our lineout. Kind of embarrassing really.
People will blame Taylor, but Tuipulotu and Barrett got dominated... need one or the other with a taller lock. Issue is, Lord can't stay fit and Holland is not yet available.
Darry worth a crack?
@frugby said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
How shit was our lineout. Kind of embarrassing really.
People will blame Taylor, but Tuipulotu and Barrett got dominated... need one or the other with a taller lock. Issue is, Lord can't stay fit and Holland is not yet available.
Darry worth a crack?
Sorry but your line out starts with the throw and Codie's throwing tonight was horrendous!
His poor throws were putting pressure on our jumpers on almost every line out.
He played poorly and should have been replaced early in the second half yet Razor kept his pet on until after the 60th minute before Aumua came on and suddenly the line out started working.
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Not sure why Ioane is being criticized. Defended well, and consistently got over the advantage line from shit ball.
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Gutted, good first XV but our bench is weak and our accuracy is terrible when in good positions at the moment and it’s cost us in both tests. We desperately need to find a tight head from somewhere.
All Blacks did what they do, scrum half change was critical, Barret was class. Opportunity missed but I’m looking forward to the November test.
@Dodge said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Gutted, good first XV but our bench is weak and our accuracy is terrible when in good positions at the moment and it’s cost us in both tests. We desperately need to find a tight head from somewhere.
All Blacks did what they do, scrum half change was critical, Barret was class. Opportunity missed but I’m looking forward to the November test.
Strikes me England are building a strong base. I'm liking the consistency in selection and the way combinations are developing. Different attitude on and off the field too under Borthwick.
November could be a classic.
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@kev said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Not sure why Ioane is being criticized. Defended well, and consistently got over the advantage line from shit ball.
He had a fucking good game considering what he was given. Couple of hard carries, some good defence as well.
Right before he got substituted he had two men outside him in space and didnt give the pass. A few minutes later DMac had a similar option, draw and pass with BB setting up Telea for try. Not saying that he gets dropped, but setting up his outsides and passing is his Achilles heal. Needs to be better at it. Coaches need to work on him.
Rewatch it. DMac was covered and also in the way preventing the pass to Jordie.
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@kev said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Not sure why Ioane is being criticized. Defended well, and consistently got over the advantage line from shit ball.
He had a fucking good game considering what he was given. Couple of hard carries, some good defence as well.
Right before he got substituted he had two men outside him in space and didnt give the pass. A few minutes later DMac had a similar option, draw and pass with BB setting up Telea for try. Not saying that he gets dropped, but setting up his outsides and passing is his Achilles heal. Needs to be better at it. Coaches need to work on him.
Rewatch it. DMac was covered and also in the way preventing the pass to Jordie.
He could have passed to either with the wide pass being the better. It’s his hesitation that creates the issue. Then he cuts in.
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Well. Shit. In one way I'm happy that we played positively and were (very) competitive but of course pissed off that we ultimately lost two tests that we could have won.
Hats off to Borthwick and the coaching team to have changed the dynamic so much from the non-rugby we were playing up until match 3 of the 6N. A real chalk and cheese turnaround.
As I feared, the lack of real quality and any depth really in the front row came back to haunt us. If we'd been more competitive in the scrums, particularly in the first match, then maybe we draw the series. In today's match it was our discipline as much as our scrum weakness that cost us. Oh and Barret coming on and being the freak that he is.
Well done NZ a good series win from a standing start. Roll on the Autumn series and the 6N. I am actually looking forward to both with some anticipation.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England 2:
So one series down and all the old problems are still apparent:
- An inability to exit.
- Aimless, uncontested kicking.
- No way around the rush defence.
- Our own defence is porous on the edges.
All we can hope is this coaching group have enough intelligence to admit their failings and actually do something about it.
I think if anything we have gone backwards from the Schmidt WC style that got us into the final.
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@Mattasaurus I’ve watched this forum get more and more cynical year on year.
We will never be as dominant as most expect us to be in this era of rugby.
Enjoy a bloody good win where we went to a plan B and it bloody worked
@MadGav said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Enjoy a bloody good win where we went to a plan B and it bloody worked
More like Plan A from last year - but good to see the thinking worked.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
How shit was our lineout. Kind of embarrassing really.
People will blame Taylor, but Tuipulotu and Barrett got dominated... need one or the other with a taller lock. Issue is, Lord can't stay fit and Holland is not yet available.
Darry worth a crack?
@frugby said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
How shit was our lineout. Kind of embarrassing really.
People will blame Taylor, but Tuipulotu and Barrett got dominated... need one or the other with a taller lock. Issue is, Lord can't stay fit and Holland is not yet available.
Darry worth a crack?
Maybe taller helps but seems to me the throwing itself was uncertain and wobbly, and Aumua throws were better.
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Hats off England, they were the better team for 80% of the game, they can play!
Taking my AB glasses off, it was one hell of a contest.
Some serious issues for the AB’s to iron out though, obvious two being the lineout and the exit plays/kicks. Why do our kickers struggle to kick with any distance from inside our 22?
I seriously doubted how we were going to score any points when we were down by 4 and hadn’t been out of our own half for what seemed like a good 30-40 minutes.
I never wish an injury on anyone but the Ginger getting injured was the best thing to happen, it all changed from there. Ratima’s pass is sooo much crisper and faster. All of a sudden we were playing with a bit more space and freedom.
I don’t get the Telea hate on here. He’s not in vintage form, but his work rate is top notch, has the ability to beat defenders and he does some bloody good work cleaning up scrappy ball at the back and staying on his feet until he has support.
I feel we are missing someone up front who can break the line and get us some good go forward ball.
@Gunner said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Hats off England, they were the better team for 80% of the game, they can play!
Taking my AB glasses off, it was one hell of a contest.
Some serious issues for the AB’s to iron out though, obvious two being the lineout and the exit plays/kicks. Why do our kickers struggle to kick with any distance from inside our 22?
I seriously doubted how we were going to score any points when we were down by 4 and hadn’t been out of our own half for what seemed like a good 30-40 minutes.
I never wish an injury on anyone but the Ginger getting injured was the best thing to happen, it all changed from there. Ratima’s pass is sooo much crisper and faster. All of a sudden we were playing with a bit more space and freedom.
I don’t get the Telea hate on here. He’s not in vintage form, but his work rate is top notch, has the ability to beat defenders and he does some bloody good work cleaning up scrappy ball at the back and staying on his feet until he has support.
I feel we are missing someone up front who can break the line and get us some good go forward ball.
Great analysis. Have to agree with all of that.
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@chucknz said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@chimoaus yet we won in a tight contest, doubt there is much would please you
The reserves pleased me very much, just like test one. It just shouldn’t take until the last 20 minutes for us to start playing some quick direct rugby.
Plenty of credit to England of course and I like the way they are playing. Its just I know SA are a much better England and if we don’t sort out our glaring issues it could be a tough Rugby Championship.
