All Blacks vs England 2
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England 2:
So one series down and all the old problems are still apparent:
- An inability to exit.
- Aimless, uncontested kicking.
- No way around the rush defence.
- Our own defence is porous on the edges.
We played with very little prep time with an injured lock (PT) and prop (EdG) and winger (probably) and 2 or 3 rusty players (Savea and BB-although BB didn't look rusty in test 2 at all), some newbies, and still won both games, found clear weaknesses to improve, have a better idea of NH standard, and don't have many new injuries (TP and ?)
So that is good, in my book. They now though need to show improved cohesion, selection, organization, consistency, leadership, strategy and skills. So plenty to work on.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England 2:
So one series down and all the old problems are still apparent:
- An inability to exit.
- Aimless, uncontested kicking.
- No way around the rush defence.
- Our own defence is porous on the edges.
We played with very little prep time with an injured lock (PT) and prop (EdG) and winger (probably) and 2 or 3 rusty players (Savea and BB-although BB didn't look rusty in test 2 at all), some newbies, and still won both games, found clear weaknesses to improve, have a better idea of NH standard, and don't have many new injuries (TP and ?)
Scrum aside, It was a dire forwards performance with the same core of experienced players. We got worse as the series progressed.
So that is good, in my book. They now though need to show improved cohesion, selection, organization, consistency, leadership, strategy and skills. So plenty to work on.
Love your irony.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
How shit was our lineout. Kind of embarrassing really.
People will blame Taylor, but Tuipulotu and Barrett got dominated... need one or the other with a taller lock. Issue is, Lord can't stay fit and Holland is not yet available.
Darry worth a crack?
@frugby said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
How shit was our lineout. Kind of embarrassing really.
People will blame Taylor, but Tuipulotu and Barrett got dominated... need one or the other with a taller lock. Issue is, Lord can't stay fit and Holland is not yet available.
Darry worth a crack?
Sorry but your line out starts with the throw and Codie's throwing tonight was horrendous!
His poor throws were putting pressure on our jumpers on almost every line out.
He played poorly and should have been replaced early in the second half yet Razor kept his pet on until after the 60th minute before Aumua came on and suddenly the line out started working.
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Not sure why Ioane is being criticized. Defended well, and consistently got over the advantage line from shit ball.
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Gutted, good first XV but our bench is weak and our accuracy is terrible when in good positions at the moment and it’s cost us in both tests. We desperately need to find a tight head from somewhere.
All Blacks did what they do, scrum half change was critical, Barret was class. Opportunity missed but I’m looking forward to the November test.
@Dodge said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Gutted, good first XV but our bench is weak and our accuracy is terrible when in good positions at the moment and it’s cost us in both tests. We desperately need to find a tight head from somewhere.
All Blacks did what they do, scrum half change was critical, Barret was class. Opportunity missed but I’m looking forward to the November test.
Strikes me England are building a strong base. I'm liking the consistency in selection and the way combinations are developing. Different attitude on and off the field too under Borthwick.
November could be a classic.
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@kev said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Not sure why Ioane is being criticized. Defended well, and consistently got over the advantage line from shit ball.
He had a fucking good game considering what he was given. Couple of hard carries, some good defence as well.
Right before he got substituted he had two men outside him in space and didnt give the pass. A few minutes later DMac had a similar option, draw and pass with BB setting up Telea for try. Not saying that he gets dropped, but setting up his outsides and passing is his Achilles heal. Needs to be better at it. Coaches need to work on him.
Rewatch it. DMac was covered and also in the way preventing the pass to Jordie.
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@kev said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Not sure why Ioane is being criticized. Defended well, and consistently got over the advantage line from shit ball.
He had a fucking good game considering what he was given. Couple of hard carries, some good defence as well.
Right before he got substituted he had two men outside him in space and didnt give the pass. A few minutes later DMac had a similar option, draw and pass with BB setting up Telea for try. Not saying that he gets dropped, but setting up his outsides and passing is his Achilles heal. Needs to be better at it. Coaches need to work on him.
Rewatch it. DMac was covered and also in the way preventing the pass to Jordie.
He could have passed to either with the wide pass being the better. It’s his hesitation that creates the issue. Then he cuts in.
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Well. Shit. In one way I'm happy that we played positively and were (very) competitive but of course pissed off that we ultimately lost two tests that we could have won.
Hats off to Borthwick and the coaching team to have changed the dynamic so much from the non-rugby we were playing up until match 3 of the 6N. A real chalk and cheese turnaround.
As I feared, the lack of real quality and any depth really in the front row came back to haunt us. If we'd been more competitive in the scrums, particularly in the first match, then maybe we draw the series. In today's match it was our discipline as much as our scrum weakness that cost us. Oh and Barret coming on and being the freak that he is.
Well done NZ a good series win from a standing start. Roll on the Autumn series and the 6N. I am actually looking forward to both with some anticipation.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England 2:
So one series down and all the old problems are still apparent:
- An inability to exit.
- Aimless, uncontested kicking.
- No way around the rush defence.
- Our own defence is porous on the edges.
All we can hope is this coaching group have enough intelligence to admit their failings and actually do something about it.
I think if anything we have gone backwards from the Schmidt WC style that got us into the final.
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@Mattasaurus I’ve watched this forum get more and more cynical year on year.
We will never be as dominant as most expect us to be in this era of rugby.
Enjoy a bloody good win where we went to a plan B and it bloody worked
@MadGav said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Enjoy a bloody good win where we went to a plan B and it bloody worked
More like Plan A from last year - but good to see the thinking worked.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
How shit was our lineout. Kind of embarrassing really.
People will blame Taylor, but Tuipulotu and Barrett got dominated... need one or the other with a taller lock. Issue is, Lord can't stay fit and Holland is not yet available.
Darry worth a crack?
@frugby said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
How shit was our lineout. Kind of embarrassing really.
People will blame Taylor, but Tuipulotu and Barrett got dominated... need one or the other with a taller lock. Issue is, Lord can't stay fit and Holland is not yet available.
Darry worth a crack?
Maybe taller helps but seems to me the throwing itself was uncertain and wobbly, and Aumua throws were better.
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Hats off England, they were the better team for 80% of the game, they can play!
Taking my AB glasses off, it was one hell of a contest.
Some serious issues for the AB’s to iron out though, obvious two being the lineout and the exit plays/kicks. Why do our kickers struggle to kick with any distance from inside our 22?
I seriously doubted how we were going to score any points when we were down by 4 and hadn’t been out of our own half for what seemed like a good 30-40 minutes.
I never wish an injury on anyone but the Ginger getting injured was the best thing to happen, it all changed from there. Ratima’s pass is sooo much crisper and faster. All of a sudden we were playing with a bit more space and freedom.
I don’t get the Telea hate on here. He’s not in vintage form, but his work rate is top notch, has the ability to beat defenders and he does some bloody good work cleaning up scrappy ball at the back and staying on his feet until he has support.
I feel we are missing someone up front who can break the line and get us some good go forward ball.
@Gunner said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Hats off England, they were the better team for 80% of the game, they can play!
Taking my AB glasses off, it was one hell of a contest.
Some serious issues for the AB’s to iron out though, obvious two being the lineout and the exit plays/kicks. Why do our kickers struggle to kick with any distance from inside our 22?
I seriously doubted how we were going to score any points when we were down by 4 and hadn’t been out of our own half for what seemed like a good 30-40 minutes.
I never wish an injury on anyone but the Ginger getting injured was the best thing to happen, it all changed from there. Ratima’s pass is sooo much crisper and faster. All of a sudden we were playing with a bit more space and freedom.
I don’t get the Telea hate on here. He’s not in vintage form, but his work rate is top notch, has the ability to beat defenders and he does some bloody good work cleaning up scrappy ball at the back and staying on his feet until he has support.
I feel we are missing someone up front who can break the line and get us some good go forward ball.
Great analysis. Have to agree with all of that.
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@chucknz said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@chimoaus yet we won in a tight contest, doubt there is much would please you
The reserves pleased me very much, just like test one. It just shouldn’t take until the last 20 minutes for us to start playing some quick direct rugby.
Plenty of credit to England of course and I like the way they are playing. Its just I know SA are a much better England and if we don’t sort out our glaring issues it could be a tough Rugby Championship.
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@Gunner said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Hats off England, they were the better team for 80% of the game, they can play!
Taking my AB glasses off, it was one hell of a contest.
Some serious issues for the AB’s to iron out though, obvious two being the lineout and the exit plays/kicks. Why do our kickers struggle to kick with any distance from inside our 22?
I seriously doubted how we were going to score any points when we were down by 4 and hadn’t been out of our own half for what seemed like a good 30-40 minutes.
I never wish an injury on anyone but the Ginger getting injured was the best thing to happen, it all changed from there. Ratima’s pass is sooo much crisper and faster. All of a sudden we were playing with a bit more space and freedom.
I don’t get the Telea hate on here. He’s not in vintage form, but his work rate is top notch, has the ability to beat defenders and he does some bloody good work cleaning up scrappy ball at the back and staying on his feet until he has support.
I feel we are missing someone up front who can break the line and get us some good go forward ball.
Great analysis. Have to agree with all of that.
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@Stag said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Nepia the stats clearly show that Sotutu is well below the other loosies selected when it comes to the tough stuff:
Lies, damn lies and statistics. Sotutu was used for the Blues in a similar way that teams use Savea.
Sotutu's job was to pass (kick!) and run (and score trys). We had hardworking flankers to cover the rest, otherwise known as balance. He's pretty much like for like cover for Savea.
If he was asked to play a tighter role, he has the ability and fitness to do that. This reminds of when the Blues used to play Akira out wide and people complained about his workrate. When Cotter (and the ABs) wanted him closer in, he did it with ease.
IMO, player that can play multiple stlyes is useful for a squad, but what the fuck do I know.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@kev said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Not sure why Ioane is being criticized. Defended well, and consistently got over the advantage line from shit ball.
He had a fucking good game considering what he was given. Couple of hard carries, some good defence as well.
Right before he got substituted he had two men outside him in space and didnt give the pass. A few minutes later DMac had a similar option, draw and pass with BB setting up Telea for try. Not saying that he gets dropped, but setting up his outsides and passing is his Achilles heal. Needs to be better at it. Coaches need to work on him.
Rewatch it. DMac was covered and also in the way preventing the pass to Jordie.
He could have passed to either with the wide pass being the better. It’s his hesitation that creates the issue. Then he cuts in.
@kev said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@kev said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Not sure why Ioane is being criticized. Defended well, and consistently got over the advantage line from shit ball.
He had a fucking good game considering what he was given. Couple of hard carries, some good defence as well.
Right before he got substituted he had two men outside him in space and didnt give the pass. A few minutes later DMac had a similar option, draw and pass with BB setting up Telea for try. Not saying that he gets dropped, but setting up his outsides and passing is his Achilles heal. Needs to be better at it. Coaches need to work on him.
Rewatch it. DMac was covered and also in the way preventing the pass to Jordie.
He could have passed to either with the wide pass being the better. It’s his hesitation that creates the issue. Then he cuts in.
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Also look at how the Wallabies are playing under Schmidt. He has had way less time than Razor and the differences are obvious. I realise it’s just Wales but I had hoped to see Razors blueprint but I’m just seeing a rehash of Fosters issues.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Also look at how the Wallabies are playing under Schmidt. He has had way less time than Razor and the differences are obvious. I realise it’s just Wales but I had hoped to see Razors blueprint but I’m just seeing a rehash of Fosters issues.
Get off it. Wales are WOEFUL.
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Currently we are going to lose more than win against SA, Ireland and France.
We aren't going to dominate in the forwards but can hold our own.
Our strength could well be Ratima- DMac - JB.
We need a distributor at 13 and speed on both wings
