All Blacks vs England 2
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@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Not bad for 3 weeks together really.
Not really buying that. Apart from the scrum, the forwards were shit and that's the same forwards coach and pretty much the same players as the RWC squad. In many ways we're going backwards.
But credit to Robertson for going back to last year's dual playmaker tactics to get the win.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Apart from the scrum, the forwards were shit and that's the same forwards coach and pretty much the same players as the RWC squad. In many ways we're going backwards.
Yeah - apart from Taukei'aho, Retallick, Whitelock, Frizell, and Cane (and a few squaddies).
Can't think any of these guys would have made any difference - especially to our lineout!
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Clearly it is going to take longer than 3 weeks to clean the shit stains from the last 6 years off this AB team.
Hopefully they learn some lessons and go about fixing the problem areas asap.Christie should be nowhere near the ABs. Absolute handbrake.
It would also have been great to see Ioane getting the ball out wide in space with an 11 on his back. He is completely wasted at 13.
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I think the question needs to be raised of which players would've looked a lot better with Ratima starting the full game... And I'd say almost all of them. If forwards are getting stagnant ball then they're generally always going to struggle to generate go-forward. We'll see changes next week with the new opposition but I'd have loved to see one more game against England with, once again, a largely similar team - just with Ratima at halfback.
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We have no loose forward ball carrier, and England had two in Cunningham-Smith and Earls.
I'd bench Savea to cover 7 and 8 to be used as an impact player and start Sititi at 8
Papalii is an 80 minute player.
6??? - Blackadder or Vaii -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Apart from the scrum, the forwards were shit and that's the same forwards coach and pretty much the same players as the RWC squad. In many ways we're going backwards.
Yeah - apart from Taukei'aho, Retallick, Whitelock, Frizell, and Cane (and a few squaddies).
Can't think any of these guys would have made any difference - especially to our lineout!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Apart from the scrum, the forwards were shit and that's the same forwards coach and pretty much the same players as the RWC squad. In many ways we're going backwards.
Yeah - apart from Taukei'aho, Retallick, Whitelock, Frizell, and Cane (and a few squaddies).
Can't think any of these guys would have made any difference - especially to our lineout!
A lot of our forwards performances were as shit as tonight - some worse - even with those players.
Don't forget Ryan and co have had plenty of experience with the forwards selection tonight.
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@Machpants I think 3 is a little low. Taylor was one of, if not the best All Black on defence. Lineout was a shambles, but not solely to blame. Did give away that dumb penalty, but he carried well, so a real mixed game.
@frugby said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Machpants I think 3 is a little low. Taylor was one of, if not the best All Black on defence. Lineout was a shambles, but not solely to blame. Did give away that dumb penalty, but he carried well, so a real mixed game.
Second half was a marked improvement in terms of effective involvements.
When calling, lifting and throwing simplified we looked good. Shades of Mealamu putting his hand to his ear but then missing the call and throw completely.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Not bad for 3 weeks together really.
Not really buying that. Apart from the scrum, the forwards were shit and that's the same forwards coach and pretty much the same players as the RWC squad. In many ways we're going backwards.
But credit to Robertson for going back to last year's dual playmaker tactics to get the win.
Our counter rucking was pretty good.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Not bad for 3 weeks together really.
Not really buying that. Apart from the scrum, the forwards were shit and that's the same forwards coach and pretty much the same players as the RWC squad. In many ways we're going backwards.
But credit to Robertson for going back to last year's dual playmaker tactics to get the win.
Our counter rucking was pretty good.
Was excellent really
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We have no loose forward ball carrier, and England had two in Cunningham-Smith and Earls.
I'd bench Savea to cover 7 and 8 to be used as an impact player and start Sititi at 8
Papalii is an 80 minute player.
6??? - Blackadder or Vaii@Frank said in All Blacks vs England 2:
We have no loose forward ball carrier, and England had two in Cunningham-Smith and Earls.
I'd bench Savea to cover 7 and 8 to be used as an impact player and start Sititi at 8
Papalii is an 80 minute player.
6??? - Blackadder or VaiiPretty much agree. Opportunity to try out some new stuff to address some of the dross we saw tonight.
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@Dodge said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Gutted, good first XV but our bench is weak and our accuracy is terrible when in good positions at the moment and it’s cost us in both tests. We desperately need to find a tight head from somewhere.
All Blacks did what they do, scrum half change was critical, Barret was class. Opportunity missed but I’m looking forward to the November test.
England are a good team, first 60 they were the better team.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Dodge said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Gutted, good first XV but our bench is weak and our accuracy is terrible when in good positions at the moment and it’s cost us in both tests. We desperately need to find a tight head from somewhere.
All Blacks did what they do, scrum half change was critical, Barret was class. Opportunity missed but I’m looking forward to the November test.
England are a good team, first 60 they were the better team.
Gunna say middle 40.
We were better for the the first 20, and the lady 20
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@Gunner said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Hats off England, they were the better team for 80% of the game, they can play!
Taking my AB glasses off, it was one hell of a contest.
Some serious issues for the AB’s to iron out though, obvious two being the lineout and the exit plays/kicks. Why do our kickers struggle to kick with any distance from inside our 22?
I seriously doubted how we were going to score any points when we were down by 4 and hadn’t been out of our own half for what seemed like a good 30-40 minutes.
I never wish an injury on anyone but the Ginger getting injured was the best thing to happen, it all changed from there. Ratima’s pass is sooo much crisper and faster. All of a sudden we were playing with a bit more space and freedom.
I don’t get the Telea hate on here. He’s not in vintage form, but his work rate is top notch, has the ability to beat defenders and he does some bloody good work cleaning up scrappy ball at the back and staying on his feet until he has support.
I feel we are missing someone up front who can break the line and get us some good go forward ball.
Great analysis. Have to agree with all of that.
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@MadGav said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Mattasaurus I’ve watched this forum get more and more cynical year on year.
We will never be as dominant as most expect us to be in this era of rugby.
Enjoy a bloody good win where we went to a plan B and it bloody worked
Fuck you, I want dominance
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@MadGav said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Mattasaurus I’ve watched this forum get more and more cynical year on year.
We will never be as dominant as most expect us to be in this era of rugby.
Enjoy a bloody good win where we went to a plan B and it bloody worked
Fuck you, I want dominance
I'll take wins
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Perofeta actually should not have thrown to Telea in that movement when he was cut down before the line.
He had Christie and Jordie inside me and unmarked.
@Frank said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Perofeta actually should not have thrown to Telea in that movement when he was cut down before the line.
He had Christie and Jordie inside me and unmarked.Telea should have done better though. Look at the space he has.
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Perofeta actually should not have thrown to Telea in that movement when he was cut down before the line.
He had Christie and Jordie inside me and unmarked.@Frank said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Perofeta actually should not have thrown to Telea in that movement when he was cut down before the line.
He had Christie and Jordie inside me and unmarked.Could have done a no-look inside!
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs England 2:
So one series down and all the old problems are still apparent:
- An inability to exit.
- Aimless, uncontested kicking.
- No way around the rush defence.
- Our own defence is porous on the edges.
We played with very little prep time with an injured lock (PT) and prop (EdG) and winger (probably) and 2 or 3 rusty players (Savea and BB-although BB didn't look rusty in test 2 at all), some newbies, and still won both games, found clear weaknesses to improve, have a better idea of NH standard, and don't have many new injuries (TP and ?)
Scrum aside, It was a dire forwards performance with the same core of experienced players. We got worse as the series progressed.
So that is good, in my book. They now though need to show improved cohesion, selection, organization, consistency, leadership, strategy and skills. So plenty to work on.
Love your irony.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England 2:
a dire forwards performance
Going to disagree.
Our mid field D was awesome
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@Frank said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Perofeta actually should not have thrown to Telea in that movement when he was cut down before the line.
He had Christie and Jordie inside me and unmarked.Telea should have done better though. Look at the space he has.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs England 2:
@Frank said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Perofeta actually should not have thrown to Telea in that movement when he was cut down before the line.
He had Christie and Jordie inside me and unmarked.Telea should have done better though. Look at the space he has.
He lacks pace. Imagine Jordan in that position. It is him or Reece, but not both.
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@Frank said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Perofeta actually should not have thrown to Telea in that movement when he was cut down before the line.
He had Christie and Jordie inside me and unmarked.Telea should have done better though. Look at the space he has.
@KiwiMurph
He's only any good when surrounded by seven defenders in 13cm of space. -
We have no loose forward ball carrier, and England had two in Cunningham-Smith and Earls.
I'd bench Savea to cover 7 and 8 to be used as an impact player and start Sititi at 8
Papalii is an 80 minute player.
6??? - Blackadder or Vaii@Frank said in All Blacks vs England 2:
We have no loose forward ball carrier, and England had two in Cunningham-Smith and Earls.
I'd bench Savea to cover 7 and 8 to be used as an impact player and start Sititi at 8
Papalii is an 80 minute player.
6??? - Blackadder or VaiiWorld Cup winning teams have traditionally had an absolute monster at #8... Wallabies fell short with Pocock, we fell short with Savea etc.
Savea is a great player so we often get away with, but when push comes to shove, I think the balance would be better with one of Papalii, Savea or Cane, a huge hard bastard at eight, and the ball running six.
Finau has had a pair of quiet tests to start, but happy to give him more time... not sure Sititi is ready yet to be your monster number eight, selectors don't like Sotutu, so options are a bit limited.
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@Tim said in All Blacks vs England 2:
No cards again. :thumbs_up:
And for both teams. Just makes for a better spectacle when all players are on the park.
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@Frank said in All Blacks vs England 2:
We have no loose forward ball carrier, and England had two in Cunningham-Smith and Earls.
I'd bench Savea to cover 7 and 8 to be used as an impact player and start Sititi at 8
Papalii is an 80 minute player.
6??? - Blackadder or VaiiWorld Cup winning teams have traditionally had an absolute monster at #8... Wallabies fell short with Pocock, we fell short with Savea etc.
Savea is a great player so we often get away with, but when push comes to shove, I think the balance would be better with one of Papalii, Savea or Cane, a huge hard bastard at eight, and the ball running six.
Finau has had a pair of quiet tests to start, but happy to give him more time... not sure Sititi is ready yet to be your monster number eight, selectors don't like Sotutu, so options are a bit limited.
@frugby said in All Blacks vs England 2:
Finau has had a pair of quiet tests to start, but happy to give him more time... not sure Sititi is ready yet to be your monster number eight, selectors don't like Sotutu, so options are a bit limited.
Sititi is the only hard running loose forward we have in the squad.
Finau is waaaaaaaaay off the pace.
