All Blacks vs England 2

Bones

@sparky said in All Blacks vs England 2:

@Daffy-Jaffy Steve Borthwick very impressive there. I thought his line about not putting limits on his team was a good one.

He's fucking poke. Haha taken a team with potential to be in the top five, into the top five....maybe. All sorts of talent, under a steady regime and struggled to get parity against a team under a brand new coach for ten days that spilled eleventy million opportunities.

I really don't get the fawning over Borthwick, it's bizarre, he's done sweet fuck all with the most resourced team in the world.

A top tier team would have put us to the sword with that amount of crucial errors.

mencey

I have to say that I really thought that BB was past his sell by date. I just watched the game again and to say the he turned the game for us is an understatement. He may have lost a yard or 2 of pace but the game management when he came on was fantastic. I sound like a fan boy but at 60 I have been watching and playing rugby all my life and that performance from BB was special, one of the best that I have seen in recent times. Anyway enough said and fuck we need the experience players to step up and share their wealth. Hats off to Ratima also. Not bad for a first cap. I C a bright future. time for bed me thinks. Been up for quite a while watching here in North America. Roll on the Rugby Championship.

voodoo

Why does Scott Barrett do that half-arsed chargedown attempt at every single oppo ruck box-clearance? I don't feel like he's got one since 1993 and it just leaves him late to the next phase

nostrildamus

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs England 2:

Sotutu didn’t get selected because of his lack of ability on “both” sides of the ball….

So goodness knows how Telea stays in based on this…..some appalling defensive work from him.

Easy answer: different selectors.

Crazy Horse

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs England 2:

@Machpants said in All Blacks vs England 2:

How awesome is it to have a coach that actually answers questions? Razor winning there I think

They both appeared a bit confused when the reporters started their questions with "Scott".

Chester Draws

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England 2:

We were anything but calm in the first 60 minutes. It was an error-strewn performance up with the worst of the the Ireland series.

Our lineout was appalling, but other than that we were not "error strewn".

We didn't drop a lot of ball forward (including taking all the high kicks they put up). Our scrum was stable. We didn't give away heaps of penalties. We didn't miss heaps of tackles and they made almost no line breaks.

We took some wrong options, but no-one ever gets them all right. We didn't make many yards with the forwards, but that isn't an error.

Every test has errors because of the pressure they are under, but in the key areas of not dropping ball or dropping tackles we were much improved over the start of the last few years.

Some people on this forum seem to think that not only should the ABs be the best, that they should be perfect too.

kev

@voodoo said in All Blacks vs England 2:

Why does Scott Barrett do that half-arsed chargedown attempt at every single oppo ruck box-clearance? I don't feel like he's got one since 1993 and it just leaves him late to the next phase

Because he puts 100% into everything. He is the Richie McCaw of this team. Huge motor.

taniwharugby

As an aside, I think we need to scrap one of the following:
English version of our anthem
Maori version of our anthem
The Haka

I love me a good haka, but after we've had 5 minutes of our 2 anthems it comes over as too much.

nzzp

@taniwharugby I'm a fan of alternating English and Maori versions. Shortens it up nicely

KiwiMurph

@Stag said in All Blacks vs England 2:

Also at centre where Ioane making 4 tackles total, missing 2 of them and running for 15 meters, needs to go as well.

This can be misleading without looking at those 'miss' tackles especially with the way Rieko defends. Rieko uses his speed to fly up and across in defence which often forces the attack to get funnelled another way - it may count as a 'miss' but it's often deliberate and good defending

Having said that - I'm keen to see Proctor unleashed in test footy.

frugby

I think we've also seen why the coaches wanted to bring back Whitelock, Frizell and Mo'unga.

Undeniable that all three massively upgrade the team because they possess things that others simply don't have.

nostrildamus

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England 2:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs England 2:

@frugby The fern logic, the less you play, the higher you get rated.

Man, this forum is crazy. We're in a transition period and things will take time getting used to. Like yeah, players had indifferent nights, but if it were up to people on Here, we'd make about 13 changes a test just to get peoples favourites in. They're still finding their feet and getting used to things under a nee coaching system. It always seems to be the same parochial bias as well which clouds everyone's judgement.

I hear what you say, but in the last 2-3 years the rules have been:

If a player has a bad night or makes a mistake - blame the coach for selecting him

If a team needs to find its feet - blame the coach for poor preparation

If the ABs lose - blame the coach for not selecting the team the Fern wants

If a selection doesn't come off - blame the coach for getting it wrong

If a Fern selection doesn't come off - still blame the coach for getting it wrong

I think that's it...

At least one of the above hasn't happened.
You also forgot my fave - blame your least favourite Super side. Bonus points if the coach used to coach them...

African Monkey

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs England 2:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England 2:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs England 2:

@frugby The fern logic, the less you play, the higher you get rated.

Man, this forum is crazy. We're in a transition period and things will take time getting used to. Like yeah, players had indifferent nights, but if it were up to people on Here, we'd make about 13 changes a test just to get peoples favourites in. They're still finding their feet and getting used to things under a nee coaching system. It always seems to be the same parochial bias as well which clouds everyone's judgement.

I hear what you say, but in the last 2-3 years the rules have been:

If a player has a bad night or makes a mistake - blame the coach for selecting him

If a team needs to find its feet - blame the coach for poor preparation

If the ABs lose - blame the coach for not selecting the team the Fern wants

If a selection doesn't come off - blame the coach for getting it wrong

If a Fern selection doesn't come off - still blame the coach for getting it wrong

I think that's it...

At least one of the above hasn't happened.
You also forgot my fave - blame your least favourite Super side. Bonus points if the coach used to coach them...

This.

frugby

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs England 2:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs England 2:

@frugby The fern logic, the less you play, the higher you get rated.

Man, this forum is crazy. We're in a transition period and things will take time getting used to. Like yeah, players had indifferent nights, but if it were up to people on Here, we'd make about 13 changes a test just to get peoples favourites in. They're still finding their feet and getting used to things under a nee coaching system. It always seems to be the same parochial bias as well which clouds everyone's judgement.

I hear what you say, but in the last 2-3 years the rules have been:

If a player has a bad night or makes a mistake - blame the coach for selecting him

If a team needs to find its feet - blame the coach for poor preparation

If the ABs lose - blame the coach for not selecting the team the Fern wants

If a selection doesn't come off - blame the coach for getting it wrong

If a Fern selection doesn't come off - still blame the coach for getting it wrong

I think that's it...

There is some truth to that, but I also think there is some general acceptance that the issues the ABs have now are genuine personnel problems, which other than arguably the loose forwards, can't be fixed by just playing someone else.

I think other than those who like Sotutu, most would agree that last night's 23 is pretty close to the best one available (maybe barring Christie starting?) every other change would hardly make a major difference.

Foster on the other hand had our best-ever lock pairing, Smith and Mo'unga etc. and persisted with players who weren't performing on reputation.

MN5

@frugby said in All Blacks vs England 2:

I think we've also seen why the coaches wanted to bring back Whitelock, Frizell and Mo'unga.

Undeniable that all three massively upgrade the team because they possess things that others simply don't have.

I’ve ever seen such a nice write up of Frizell on here.

Chris B.

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs England 2:

Man, this forum is crazy. We're in a transition period and things will take time getting used to. Like yeah, players had indifferent nights, but if it were up to people on Here, we'd make about 13 changes a test just to get peoples favourites in. They're still finding their feet and getting used to things under a nee coaching system. It always seems to be the same parochial bias as well which clouds everyone's judgement.

Yeah - there's some weird stuff being written.

Honestly, last year this team is about the strength of team we were running out to play Namibia.

We've been shorn of Coles, Taukei'aho, Laulala, Retallick, Whitelock, Lord, Frizell, Cane, Aaron Smith, Roigard, Perenara, Mo'unga, Jordan, Fainga'anuku and doubtless a few others I'm overlooking. Nine guys who played in the RWC final.

And we've just beaten England 2-0 with a couple of weeks prep. I'm delighted and slightly surprised.

Nepia

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs England 2:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs England 2:

I think we've also seen why the coaches wanted to bring back Whitelock, Frizell and Mo'unga.

Undeniable that all three massively upgrade the team because they possess things that others simply don't have.

I’ve ever seen such a nice write up of Frizell on here.

He's been fluffed by multiple posters in the thread. It's like we're infected by Frizell bots.

If we're all being honest, Mo's getting overhyped too, the longer he's away the better his test performances have become.

MN5

@Nepia said in All Blacks vs England 2:

@MN5 said in All Blacks vs England 2:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs England 2:

I think we've also seen why the coaches wanted to bring back Whitelock, Frizell and Mo'unga.

Undeniable that all three massively upgrade the team because they possess things that others simply don't have.

I’ve ever seen such a nice write up of Frizell on here.

> He's been fluffed by multiple posters in the thread. It's like we're infected by Frizell bots.

If we're all being honest, Mo's getting overhyped too, the longer he's away the better his test performances have become.

Hmmmm, I always got the impression all he did was steal caps from Akira Ioane ?

That test against SA was something else though, his power and ball running were something else. Shame he was inconsistent

African Monkey

@frugby I've been impressed by DMac. Think he's looked great now that he knows his role in the team and that he'll get an extended run there.

Chris B.

@Nepia "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till it's gone."

Told you guys a couple of years ago that Richie the Mo was probably the best first five in the world - Danny Boy (and World Rugby) have come around to my view.

https://rugbylad.ie/dan-carter-all-blacks-debate/

Frizz was a lot more effective than you guys thought. We rarely lost when he played.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs England 2