All Blacks vs Argentina I
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
I thought bouncing a bench press off one's chest and arching the back were no nos?
It’s becoming more and more common , the theory is it reduces the range of motion allowing you to push more for strength gains .
I don’t flat bench anymore because my shoulders are rooted so I’ve never really tried it to have an opinion on it either way
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
I thought bouncing a bench press off one's chest and arching the back were no nos?
It’s becoming more and more common , the theory is it reduces the range of motion allowing you to push more for strength gains .
I don’t flat bench anymore because my shoulders are rooted so I’ve never really tried it to have an opinion on it either way
Weighted dips are the way to go. More functional in my opinion ( and yes way easier on the shoulders particularly for those of us over 40 )
Although they do help you bench too.
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
I thought bouncing a bench press off one's chest and arching the back were no nos?
It’s becoming more and more common , the theory is it reduces the range of motion allowing you to push more for strength gains .
I don’t flat bench anymore because my shoulders are rooted so I’ve never really tried it to have an opinion on it either way
Weighted dips are the way to go. More functional in my opinion ( and yes way easier on the shoulders particularly for those of us over 40 )
Although they do help you bench too.
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
I thought bouncing a bench press off one's chest and arching the back were no nos?
It’s becoming more and more common , the theory is it reduces the range of motion allowing you to push more for strength gains .
I don’t flat bench anymore because my shoulders are rooted so I’ve never really tried it to have an opinion on it either way
Weighted dips are the way to go. More functional in my opinion.
Although they do help you bench too.
I bench on a smith machine now with a slight decline and I can eliminate flaring up shoulder pain
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@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
I thought bouncing a bench press off one's chest and arching the back were no nos?
It’s becoming more and more common , the theory is it reduces the range of motion allowing you to push more for strength gains .
I don’t flat bench anymore because my shoulders are rooted so I’ve never really tried it to have an opinion on it either way
Weighted dips are the way to go. More functional in my opinion.
Although they do help you bench too.
I bench on a smith machine now with a slight decline and I can eliminate flaring up shoulder pain
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@Gunner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Can't remember ABs having so much prospective depth at halfback.
Roigard, Ratima, Hotham, Viljoen, Pledger, Christie, Perenara
Unreal
Can see a running halfback being a real point of difference.Attack the inside channels using Savea, Ratima and DMac.
Who the hell is Pledger?
And I’ve heard Viljoen’s name mentioned a few times.
He’s not a realistic chance after 3 or 4 appearances from the bench in super rugby. I’m not saying he won’t get there, but I’d like to see some evidence before we put him in any AB 9 depth chart.
I think what BC says is not that far out. He said prospective depth, not depth. I think a few have a bit to go etc, but I do think Pledger looks to have makings of a good one. Like any prospect it's how they continue to develop.
Shit I reckon at 10 Rico Simpson is a hell of a prospect too.@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Gunner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Can't remember ABs having so much prospective depth at halfback.
Roigard, Ratima, Hotham, Viljoen, Pledger, Christie, Perenara
Unreal
Can see a running halfback being a real point of difference.Attack the inside channels using Savea, Ratima and DMac.
Who the hell is Pledger?
And I’ve heard Viljoen’s name mentioned a few times.
He’s not a realistic chance after 3 or 4 appearances from the bench in super rugby. I’m not saying he won’t get there, but I’d like to see some evidence before we put him in any AB 9 depth chart.
I think what BC says is not that far out. He said prospective depth, not depth. I think a few have a bit to go etc, but I do think Pledger looks to have makings of a good one. Like any prospect it's how they continue to develop.
Shit I reckon at 10 Rico Simpson is a hell of a prospect too.We always have good prospective depth. Real depth, on the other hand?
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Gunner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Can't remember ABs having so much prospective depth at halfback.
Roigard, Ratima, Hotham, Viljoen, Pledger, Christie, Perenara
Unreal
Can see a running halfback being a real point of difference.Attack the inside channels using Savea, Ratima and DMac.
Who the hell is Pledger?
And I’ve heard Viljoen’s name mentioned a few times.
He’s not a realistic chance after 3 or 4 appearances from the bench in super rugby. I’m not saying he won’t get there, but I’d like to see some evidence before we put him in any AB 9 depth chart.
I think what BC says is not that far out. He said prospective depth, not depth. I think a few have a bit to go etc, but I do think Pledger looks to have makings of a good one. Like any prospect it's how they continue to develop.
Shit I reckon at 10 Rico Simpson is a hell of a prospect too.We always have good prospective depth. Real depth, on the other hand?
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Gunner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Can't remember ABs having so much prospective depth at halfback.
Roigard, Ratima, Hotham, Viljoen, Pledger, Christie, Perenara
Unreal
Can see a running halfback being a real point of difference.Attack the inside channels using Savea, Ratima and DMac.
Who the hell is Pledger?
And I’ve heard Viljoen’s name mentioned a few times.
He’s not a realistic chance after 3 or 4 appearances from the bench in super rugby. I’m not saying he won’t get there, but I’d like to see some evidence before we put him in any AB 9 depth chart.
I think what BC says is not that far out. He said prospective depth, not depth. I think a few have a bit to go etc, but I do think Pledger looks to have makings of a good one. Like any prospect it's how they continue to develop.
Shit I reckon at 10 Rico Simpson is a hell of a prospect too.We always have good prospective depth. Really depth, on the other hand?
Personally real depth is acceptable, probably as good as we have had lately. We don't have a Nugget , but we got s few reasonable 9s.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Gunner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Can't remember ABs having so much prospective depth at halfback.
Roigard, Ratima, Hotham, Viljoen, Pledger, Christie, Perenara
Unreal
Can see a running halfback being a real point of difference.Attack the inside channels using Savea, Ratima and DMac.
Who the hell is Pledger?
And I’ve heard Viljoen’s name mentioned a few times.
He’s not a realistic chance after 3 or 4 appearances from the bench in super rugby. I’m not saying he won’t get there, but I’d like to see some evidence before we put him in any AB 9 depth chart.
I think what BC says is not that far out. He said prospective depth, not depth. I think a few have a bit to go etc, but I do think Pledger looks to have makings of a good one. Like any prospect it's how they continue to develop.
Shit I reckon at 10 Rico Simpson is a hell of a prospect too.We always have good prospective depth. Really depth, on the other hand?
Personally real depth is acceptable, probably as good as we have had lately. We don't have a Nugget , but we got s few reasonable 9s.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Gunner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Can't remember ABs having so much prospective depth at halfback.
Roigard, Ratima, Hotham, Viljoen, Pledger, Christie, Perenara
Unreal
Can see a running halfback being a real point of difference.Attack the inside channels using Savea, Ratima and DMac.
Who the hell is Pledger?
And I’ve heard Viljoen’s name mentioned a few times.
He’s not a realistic chance after 3 or 4 appearances from the bench in super rugby. I’m not saying he won’t get there, but I’d like to see some evidence before we put him in any AB 9 depth chart.
I think what BC says is not that far out. He said prospective depth, not depth. I think a few have a bit to go etc, but I do think Pledger looks to have makings of a good one. Like any prospect it's how they continue to develop.
Shit I reckon at 10 Rico Simpson is a hell of a prospect too.We always have good prospective depth. Really depth, on the other hand?
Personally real depth is acceptable, probably as good as we have had lately. We don't have a Nugget , but we got s few reasonable 9s.
I'll hold out judgement until the end of the Rugby Championship...
Roigard is great, Ratima could be too. Hotham is unproven, just like all the other uncapped halfbacks (Ratima is still really in the camp too, and who knows what Roigard will be like post-injury).
Until we have a couple of guys with 5-10 starts (including a few games each against SA, England, France, Ireland) then the top layer of the depth is still very questionable.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Can't see why they would select Finau if they didn't want him!
I didn't realise Jordan had played so little rugby. He'll probably start then with Havili taking ALBs place on the bench.
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Fletcher Newell was on the radio saying Ratima was benching 170 kgs , all the forwards were impressed how strong he is
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Fletcher Newell was on the radio saying Ratima was benching 170 kgs , all the forwards were impressed how strong he is
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Fletcher Newell was on the radio saying Ratima was benching 170 kgs , all the forwards were impressed how strong he is
He did that in Chiefs pre-season. Maybe even heavier now.
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@nostrildamus only in comps?!
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@nostrildamus only in comps?!
I thought it was bad form and a health risk, but I'm old school so maybe out of touch...
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So what's the 23 for the first test against Argentina?
I reckon we'll see something like the below.
- De Groot
- C Taylor
- T Lomax
- P Tuipolotu
- T Vaai
- S Finau
- D Papali'i
- A Savea (c)
- T Perenara
- D McKenzie
- C Clarke
- J Barrett
- R Ioane
- S Reece
- W Jordan
- A Aumua
- T Williams
- F Newell
- S Darry
- E Blackadder
- C Ratima
- B Barrett
- A Leinert-Brown
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Same. It’s great as long as you get the initial setup right. Even better for incline IMO
Never understood the hate for it
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Same. It’s great as long as you get the initial setup right. Even better for incline IMO
Never understood the hate for it
Free weights are much more functional so I do get the ‘bro hate’ on people having a go at guys doing machine weights.
Flip side of that of course is do we really want to injure ourselves at our age doing big benches with free weights ?
As long as it’s keeping the body moving it’s all good stuff.
Ratima benching that at his weight is damn impressive, up there with Will Genia and Digby Ioane but bench is only part of overall strength…..other lifts play a part too.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Same. It’s great as long as you get the initial setup right. Even better for incline IMO
Never understood the hate for it
Free weights are much more functional so I do get the ‘bro hate’ on people having a go at guys doing machine weights.
Flip side of that of course is do we really want to injure ourselves at our age doing big benches with free weights ?
As long as it’s keeping the body moving it’s all good stuff.
Ratima benching that at his weight is damn impressive, up there with Will Genia and Digby Ioane but bench is only part of overall strength…..other lifts play a part too.
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Same. It’s great as long as you get the initial setup right. Even better for incline IMO
Never understood the hate for it
Free weights are much more functional so I do get the ‘bro hate’ on people having a go at guys doing machine weights.
Flip side of that of course is do we really want to injure ourselves at our age doing big benches with free weights ?
As long as it’s keeping the body moving it’s all good stuff.
Ratima benching that at his weight is damn impressive, up there with Will Genia and Digby Ioane but bench is only part of bridge strength…..other lifts play a part too.
I'm into moderate weights high reps, for strength and injury prevention. My mate still tries to lift big, and right now his rotator cuff is not correctly attached to his body...
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@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Same. It’s great as long as you get the initial setup right. Even better for incline IMO
Never understood the hate for it
Free weights are much more functional so I do get the ‘bro hate’ on people having a go at guys doing machine weights.
Flip side of that of course is do we really want to injure ourselves at our age doing big benches with free weights ?
As long as it’s keeping the body moving it’s all good stuff.
Ratima benching that at his weight is damn impressive, up there with Will Genia and Digby Ioane but bench is only part of overall strength…..other lifts play a part too.
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Free weights are much more functional so I do get the ‘bro hate’ on people having a go at guys doing machine weights.
What's the goal? Hypertrophy or doing the heaviest free weight movement? If it's hypertrophy then the view is decades out of date
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@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Same. It’s great as long as you get the initial setup right. Even better for incline IMO
Never understood the hate for it
Free weights are much more functional so I do get the ‘bro hate’ on people having a go at guys doing machine weights.
Flip side of that of course is do we really want to injure ourselves at our age doing big benches with free weights ?
As long as it’s keeping the body moving it’s all good stuff.
Ratima benching that at his weight is damn impressive, up there with Will Genia and Digby Ioane but bench is only part of overall strength…..other lifts play a part too.
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Same. It’s great as long as you get the initial setup right. Even better for incline IMO
Never understood the hate for it
Free weights are much more functional so I do get the ‘bro hate’ on people having a go at guys doing machine weights.
Flip side of that of course is do we really want to injure ourselves at our age doing big benches with free weights ?
As long as it’s keeping the body moving it’s all good stuff.
Ratima benching that at his weight is damn impressive, up there with Will Genia and Digby Ioane but bench is only part of overall strength…..other lifts play a part too.
Digny’s bench wasn’t much help when Jérôme collared him.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Free weights are much more functional so I do get the ‘bro hate’ on people having a go at guys doing machine weights.
What's the goal? Hypertrophy or doing the heaviest free weight movement? If it's hypertrophy then the view is decades out of date
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Free weights are much more functional so I do get the ‘bro hate’ on people having a go at guys doing machine weights.
What's the goal? Hypertrophy or doing the heaviest free weight movement? If it's hypertrophy then the view is decades out of date
Not really. Benching x weight with free weights is tougher than x weights on a smith machine. I do get the ABs doing the former.
But…..there’s still room for more functional strength, calisthenics etc.
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So what's the 23 for the first test against Argentina?
I reckon we'll see something like the below.
- De Groot
- C Taylor
- T Lomax
- P Tuipolotu
- T Vaai
- S Finau
- D Papali'i
- A Savea (c)
- T Perenara
- D McKenzie
- C Clarke
- J Barrett
- R Ioane
- S Reece
- W Jordan
- A Aumua
- T Williams
- F Newell
- S Darry
- E Blackadder
- C Ratima
- B Barrett
- A Leinert-Brown
@Canes4life Wings probably biggest area of judgement.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Free weights are much more functional so I do get the ‘bro hate’ on people having a go at guys doing machine weights.
What's the goal? Hypertrophy or doing the heaviest free weight movement? If it's hypertrophy then the view is decades out of date
Not really. Benching x weight with free weights is tougher than x weights on a smith machine. I do get the ABs doing the former.
But…..there’s still room for more functional strength, calisthenics etc.
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Free weights are much more functional so I do get the ‘bro hate’ on people having a go at guys doing machine weights.
What's the goal? Hypertrophy or doing the heaviest free weight movement? If it's hypertrophy then the view is decades out of date
Not really. Benching x weight with free weights is tougher than x weights on a smith machine. I do get the ABs doing the former.
But…..there’s still room for more functional strength, calisthenics etc.
Goalposts moving all over the place. All I said was I don’t get the hate for the Smith when another TSFer said they use it. You said you do get the hate for it. It’s an excellent tool if you know what you are doing
