All Blacks v Argentina II
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
he's tired because he carreid the team on his shoulders for the RWC. Seriously, he was immense there- didn't make him grow and become a lineout option, but he was close to one of our best players last year. Short memories around here.
You're both right. TJ is past it (and you knew what you were getting when you picked him Razor), Ardie unbalances the trio and is getting on; Newell is pants around the park but Jase loves him, Blackadder is limited at 6 in Tests, and Reece is amazing at somethings, but still too small for front line tests.
Push Savea to the bench then use him for impact, maybe he gets his mojo back.
Don't disagree with this. I'd have him on the bench, but my point was he was excellent lsat year. A month of bad form doesn't mean that's all he's got any more.
Having said that, I can't think of any player that came back from sabbatical better than they were when they started. Maybe BBBR was close to par. To be in Japan playing lower level rugby and come straight back into starting for the ABs was a stretch. I think a staggered return would have been easy to get by the media and the public, and been better for the team
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Having said that, I can't think of any player that came back from sabbatical better than they were when they started.
Rangi, perhaps?
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.It's not how smart or down to earth he is at Club or SRP level, it's how good he is at Test level. As an armchair expert I'll give him a pass as our D hasn't regressed and has improved in some areas and adapted to opponents.
Unlike our forwards where Robertson really needs to get a grip. All over the place consistency-wise and bugger-all improvement.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.It's not how smart or down to earth he is at Club or SRP level, it's how good he is at Test level. As an armchair expert I'll give him a pass as our D hasn't regressed and has improved in some areas and adapted to opponents.
Unlike our forwards where Robertson really needs to get a grip. All over the place consistency-wise and bugger-all improvement.
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@Victor-Meldrew not sure shipping record points to Argentina isn't regression.
@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew not sure shipping record points to Argentina isn't regression.
That's not all down to defence. A shit forwards platform is going to give scoring opportunities to the other side.
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Saveas time is done for me his work rate is poor now he floats in and out of the game too much.
His captaincy is just not there under pressure we have nothing from the Captain.
TJ is done as well. We need the young HBs in, both are running threats which we need.
I hope we see some hard selections being made this week.Did you even watch the game. Savea was fine but as captain its hard with such a poorly selected and poorly coached side. As was TJ. But people ahve made there mind up with TJ before the game starts (having posted this I would have started Ratima).
Regarding players. Look at your Crusader players and coaches to see where the blame lies
Taylor should be dropped to the reserves and replaced with Aumua. He threw well this game (as did Aumua in his one start) but not all. But he does nothing much else now. I would prefer both RR and Aumua. But hes a vice captian now. This is becoming an issue with Robertson. Hes like another Deans or Wylie (or Hart). Not a Wayne Smith. Or Henry.Newell is hopeless apart from scummaging but even here in this game he was poor.
Reece is too slow and small for test rugby.
In my view Blackadder is not the answer at 6There were other poor selection but the above is a start
FFS, they are not crusader or hurricanes players. They are New Zealanders.
Stop this provincial bullshit when assessing players and the national team
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
more than ever i think saveas best positions is impact off the bench
At the very best.
he's tired because he carreid the team on his shoulders for the RWC. Seriously, he was immense there- didn't make him grow and become a lineout option, but he was close to one of our best players last year. Short memories around here.
You're both right. TJ is past it (and you knew what you were getting when you picked him Razor), Ardie unbalances the trio and is getting on; Newell is pants around the park but Jase loves him, Blackadder is limited at 6 in Tests, and Reece is amazing at somethings, but still too small for front line tests.
Push Savea to the bench then use him for impact, maybe he gets his mojo back.
Don't disagree with this. I'd have him on the bench, but my point was he was excellent lsat year. A month of bad form doesn't mean that's all he's got any more.
Having said that, I can't think of any player that came back from sabbatical better than they were when they started. Maybe BBBR was close to par. To be in Japan playing lower level rugby and come straight back into starting for the ABs was a stretch. I think a staggered return would have been easy to get by the media and the public, and been better for the team
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The Boks have 4 or 5 forwards in Japan. How come they can handle it?
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
The Boks have 4 or 5 forwards in Japan. How come they can handle it?
Maybe we should ask them?
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all about "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Incidentally, Hansen had a 33% win record when called up to the ABs and The Professor shat the bed with his time in charge.
Results as a head coach mean nothing if you become an assistant coach.
Take a look around at teams around the world. Lots of Assistant coaches aren’t or have been head coaches. It’s a different role completely.
Maybe the head coaches like McDonald etc are struggling with the specialisation required?
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I didn't watch as I had a 50th - and I haven't watched the replay yet. So having scrolled this thread for about 12 minutes, I feel perfectly placed to select a team for redemption.
You're welcome.
- De Groot
- Taylor
- Lomax
- Darry
- Vaii (50/50 with Patrick)
- Finau
- Cane (or Paps, I don't really care)
- Ardie (hooked for Sititi early if not playing out of his skin)
- Ratima
- Dmac
- Clarke
- ALB
- Ioane
- Jordan
- Jordie B (yes sir)
Happy to have helped out guys, see you in a week.
@voodoo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I didn't watch as I had a 50th - and I haven't watched the replay yet. So having scrolled this thread for about 12 minutes, I feel perfectly placed to select a team for redemption.
You're welcome.
- De Groot
- Taylor
- Lomax
- Darry
- Vaii (50/50 with Patrick)
- Finau
- Cane (or Paps, I don't really care)
- Ardie (hooked for Sititi early if not playing out of his skin)
- Ratima
- Dmac
- Clarke
- ALB
- Ioane
- Jordan
- Jordie B (yes sir)
Happy to have helped out guys, see you in a week.
The Redeem team, except where is our Kobe? Oh I see you’ve picked Cane….
Razor and Rangi, I know you lurk so get your skates on and pick this team
EdG, Taylor, Lomax, Darry, Vaa’i, Finau, Papali’i, Jacobson, Ratima, DMac, Clarke, ALB, Proctor, Ioane, Jordie
Aumua, Ofa, Williams, Lord, Sititi, Hotham, Beaudie, Jordan
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.It's not how smart or down to earth he is at Club or SRP level, it's how good he is at Test level. As an armchair expert I'll give him a pass as our D hasn't regressed and has improved in some areas and adapted to opponents.
Unlike our forwards where Robertson really needs to get a grip. All over the place consistency-wise and bugger-all improvement.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.It's not how smart or down to earth he is at Club or SRP level, it's how good he is at Test level. As an armchair expert I'll give him a pass as our D hasn't regressed and has improved in some areas and adapted to opponents.
Unlike our forwards where Robertson really needs to get a grip. All over the place consistency-wise and bugger-all improvement.
Bit early to judge him at test level.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Caught out badly for pace and positioning on D for two tries.
yep. And could'nt recover.
Could have been pattern to have him shoot up, but it didn't work and looked horrific
It was turnover ball and he was waving his arms in midfield like a lad marshalling a 737 onto stand. Then when they went inside him it looked like he was running in treacle trying to chase back.
I think what we are all getting sucked into this new philosophy of “I don’t think X did too badly”. Not doing too badly isn’t good enough.
This is the fucking Allblacks.
You need to be stellar
There are much better players out there who only got 20,30,40 caps and were put out to pasture.
ALB is two seasons away from being a centurion. And he has done fuck all. I was sick of him in 2019. We have gone through a pandemic , a Russian invasion and a presidential assassination since then, and he is still here and still mediocre.
Get him gone for fuck sake.
@Jet from stats alone this year ALB shits all over Rieko.
Rieko has been horrible on attack for 2 years now.
Literally cannot break a tackle or create a linebreak to save his life. Should be nowhere near the All Blacks until he starts finding his attacking form again because right now he's a complete waste of a spot in the backline. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.It's not how smart or down to earth he is at Club or SRP level, it's how good he is at Test level. As an armchair expert I'll give him a pass as our D hasn't regressed and has improved in some areas and adapted to opponents.
Unlike our forwards where Robertson really needs to get a grip. All over the place consistency-wise and bugger-all improvement.
Bit early to judge him at test level.
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.It's not how smart or down to earth he is at Club or SRP level, it's how good he is at Test level. As an armchair expert I'll give him a pass as our D hasn't regressed and has improved in some areas and adapted to opponents.
Unlike our forwards where Robertson really needs to get a grip. All over the place consistency-wise and bugger-all improvement.
Bit early to judge him at test level.
I think they just got the message that test level is a big jump up
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
The Boks have 4 or 5 forwards in Japan. How come they can handle it?
Maybe we should ask them?
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@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?
There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.
And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.
Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.It's not how smart or down to earth he is at Club or SRP level, it's how good he is at Test level. As an armchair expert I'll give him a pass as our D hasn't regressed and has improved in some areas and adapted to opponents.
Unlike our forwards where Robertson really needs to get a grip. All over the place consistency-wise and bugger-all improvement.
Jason Ryan’s area of responsibility is underperforming right now. Big time.
He is the coach with the longest tenure and has the most international experience.
He also has not selected the best player in Super rugby this year, which is seemingly based on a personal vendetta.
He had a great start to his AB coaching career but he really needs to get his forwards delivering pronto.
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Maybe they will tell us to ‘fuxk off bru’!
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Maybe they will tell us to ‘fuxk off bru’!
If they start playing winning footy they tell us to f*"ken go wherever they want. Otherwise feeling the blowtorch comes with the job
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@Jet from stats alone this year ALB shits all over Rieko.
Rieko has been horrible on attack for 2 years now.
Literally cannot break a tackle or create a linebreak to save his life. Should be nowhere near the All Blacks until he starts finding his attacking form again because right now he's a complete waste of a spot in the backline.@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet from stats alone this year ALB shits all over Rieko.
Rieko has been horrible on attack for 2 years now.
Literally cannot break a tackle or create a linebreak to save his life. Should be nowhere near the All Blacks until he starts finding his attacking form again because right now he's a complete waste of a spot in the backline.I’m not advocating for Rieko either.
He isn’t a centre for me.
I’m just saying his speed papers over a lot of cracks. His scramble D is good.
The cupboard is fairly bare for centres.
I have nightmares thinking about ALB running around sideways behind the gain line since 2019 semi and being gobbled up by the English.
I can’t believe 5 years later he is still there.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet from stats alone this year ALB shits all over Rieko.
Rieko has been horrible on attack for 2 years now.
Literally cannot break a tackle or create a linebreak to save his life. Should be nowhere near the All Blacks until he starts finding his attacking form again because right now he's a complete waste of a spot in the backline.I’m not advocating for Rieko either.
He isn’t a centre for me.
I’m just saying his speed papers over a lot of cracks. His scramble D is good.
The cupboard is fairly bare for centres.
I have nightmares thinking about ALB running around sideways behind the gain line since 2019 semi and being gobbled up by the English.
I can’t believe 5 years later he is still there.
@Jet Tbh I think ALB is one of our classiest players and only bouts of injury stopped him from being guaranteed as one of the first names on the sheet, which I think will happen if he stays injury free.
Even the 2019 semifinal against England you mentioned, have you seen the stats from that day?
ALB that day had the following stats..
-1st in the team for defenders beaten
-2nd in the team for metres made
-2nd in the team for tackles madeSource - https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats?gameId=292934&league=164205
So hardly the nightmare you seem to remember.
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Jason Ryan’s area of responsibility is underperforming right now. Big time.
He is the coach with the longest tenure and has the most international experience.
He also has not selected the best player in Super rugby this year, which is seemingly based on a personal vendetta.
He had a great start to his AB coaching career but he really needs to get his forwards delivering pronto.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Jason Ryan’s area of responsibility is underperforming right now. Big time.
Razor's area (loose forwards) is underperforming even worse.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Jason Ryan’s area of responsibility is underperforming right now. Big time.
Razor's area (loose forwards) is underperforming even worse.
@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Razor's area (loose forwards) is underperforming even worse.
Easy fix. More Crusaders.
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@Jet Tbh I think ALB is one of our classiest players and only bouts of injury stopped him from being guaranteed as one of the first names on the sheet, which I think will happen if he stays injury free.
Even the 2019 semifinal against England you mentioned, have you seen the stats from that day?
ALB that day had the following stats..
-1st in the team for defenders beaten
-2nd in the team for metres made
-2nd in the team for tackles madeSource - https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats?gameId=292934&league=164205
So hardly the nightmare you seem to remember.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Jet Tbh I think ALB is one of our classiest players and only bouts of injury stopped him from being guaranteed as one of the first names on the sheet, which I think will happen if he stays injury free.
Even the 2019 semifinal against England you mentioned, have you seen the stats from that day?
ALB that day had the following stats..
-1st in the team for defenders beaten
-2nd in the team for metres made
-2nd in the team for tackles madeSource - https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats?gameId=292934&league=164205
So hardly the nightmare you seem to remember.
Best of a bad bunch on the day I suppose.
On the stats front, Blackadder made 20 tackles against Argentina and everyone still wants him gone. These players are not passing the eye test.
We will be winning fuck all with ALB at centre.
ALB, Beaudy, Perenara keep getting picked as the “safe pair of hands” types. Experience , game managers and all that nonsense.
Proctor , Ratima and Jordan have the hot hands. The other 3 are yesterdays men.
