All Blacks v Argentina II

booboo

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Razor did pin point the Savea and D Mac fuck up passes which led to the Argies try as being the pivotal losing point in the match.

That worries me.

It wasn't pivotal, it was the confirmation.

Allowing the buggers back in it at halftime and just after was pivotal.

booboo

@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

I expect some changes coming one might be BB to first five which makes me very nervous,Jordan to FB and Ratima to HB I can see that happening but not much else.
Maybe Clarke for Reece.
Razor did pin point the Savea and D Mac fuck up passes which led to the Argies try as being the pivotal losing point in the match.
Him highlighting that may cost some one a starting spot.

That's certainly one way to spin it.

Bad error? Yes. Compounded by another bad error? Also yes.
Pivotal losing point? Come the fuck on.

The complete inability of our forwards to thrn defend that situation is a bigger concern than a couple of individual judgement and skill errors. Errors that came about because our overall mindset was "fast and wide always"

Almost all the Argie points were scored on the back of self inflicted wounds. Poor kicking game and inability to exit, trying to play too wide before establishing a forward platform, trying to play with the ball in dangerous positions. All of these things had a significant impact on the performance of all of the players

Agree 100%

DaGrubster

@canefan

You’ve lost me there

I was saying the Boks will tell us to fuxk off

Victor Meldrew

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".

What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?

There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.

And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.

Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.

It's not how smart or down to earth he is at Club or SRP level, it's how good he is at Test level. As an armchair expert I'll give him a pass as our D hasn't regressed and has improved in some areas and adapted to opponents.

Unlike our forwards where Robertson really needs to get a grip. All over the place consistency-wise and bugger-all improvement.

Bit early to judge him at test level.

But the big argument for picking Robertson et al was a need for fresh start and Test experience didn't matter - with Foster's Test record being held up as proof experience counted for nothing.

Now when Coach Jesus turns out (unsurprisingly) to have feet of clay, suddenly it's "too early to judge him".

He knows Ryan. He's the AB coach. He sorts it out pronto.

DaGrubster

@Frank

He isn’t the actual coach of the forwards is he?

Just the selector - selections are shit at the moment.

Jason Ryan explicitly told us the forwards were his responsibility

Bones

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Jordan

Not convinced on that. Brilliant pace and balance, runs superb lines, but a lot to learn on vision for his support play.

Jet

@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Jordan

Not convinced on that. Brilliant pace and balance, runs superb lines, but a lot to learn on vision for his support play.

The try against Ireland in test 2 where he ran 70 on a diagonal around Sexton, the try against Ireland in the 1/4 final and the try against Argentina in the semi make me yearn for him at fullback.

The thoughts of him getting the ball in space 15 times a game and having time to pick fatties to run at gives me a serious trouser chubby.

DaGrubster

@booboo

Yes, we gave away so many points, stupidly and unnecessarily

That generally happens when your intensity is lower because you feel that you are going to win and you slip into some sort of comfort zone.

We saw this type of thing under Foster so it’s concerning that it seems players aren’t mentally tuned into how they approach test match rugby

booboo

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@voodoo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

I didn't watch as I had a 50th - and I haven't watched the replay yet. So having scrolled this thread for about 12 minutes, I feel perfectly placed to select a team for redemption.

You're welcome.

De Groot

Taylor

Lomax

Darry

Vaii (50/50 with Patrick)

Finau

Cane (or Paps, I don't really care)

Ardie (hooked for Sititi early if not playing out of his skin)

Ratima

Dmac

Clarke

ALB

Ioane

Jordan

Jordie B (yes sir)

Happy to have helped out guys, see you in a week.

The Redeem team, except where is our Kobe? Oh I see you’ve picked Cane….

Razor and Rangi, I know you lurk so get your skates on and pick this team

EdG, Taylor, Lomax, Darry, Vaa’i, Finau, Papali’i, Jacobson, Ratima, DMac, Clarke, ALB, Proctor, Ioane, Jordie

Aumua, Ofa, Williams, Lord, Sititi, Hotham, Beaudie, Jordan

Who are you and how did you get ACTC's log in details?

Chris

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Chris said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Frank said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Watched the Soctt Hansen interview.
I am not going to say - “Something is rotten in the state of Denmark” -yet, but he doesn't give me that good down to earth feeling like say, Vern Cotter did. Too slick, too corporate, and too cocky. Apparently, it's all abpit "opportunities".

What happened to just saying we screwed up and we feel ashamed?

There's too many coaches in this team, two of which (MacDonald and Holland) have no record to stand on to lay claim to be in the set up in the first place. This is reflected in the disjointed game plan.

And since Razor loves his assistants - perhaps we hire a how to exit out of our own half coach.

Hansen is a top bloke and a very smart coach he master minded a lot of the plans to combat teams in the Crusaders title play off games.
I had a lot to with Scott at club level down to earth dude.

It's not how smart or down to earth he is at Club or SRP level, it's how good he is at Test level. As an armchair expert I'll give him a pass as our D hasn't regressed and has improved in some areas and adapted to opponents.

Unlike our forwards where Robertson really needs to get a grip. All over the place consistency-wise and bugger-all improvement.

Bit early to judge him at test level.

But the big argument for picking Robertson et al was a need for fresh start and Test experience didn't matter - with Foster's Test record being held up as proof experience counted for nothing.

Now when Coach Jesus turns out (unsurprisingly) to have feet of clay, suddenly it's "too early to judge him".

He knows Ryan. He's the AB coach. He sorts it out pronto.

He has won 3 lost 1 too early to judge fuck all yet, some people may be left looking stupid if they judge the wrong way now.
I reserve my judgement until I see more I did afford Foster that as well.

sparky

Okay, the team I'd go with given the squad available is:

De Groot, Taylor, Lomax, Darry, Vaii, Finau, Papalii, A. Savea, Ratima, DMac, Clarke, ALB, B. Proctor, Jordan, B.Barrett

Aumua, Ofa T, Newell, Lord, Cane, Jacobson, Hotham, J.Barrett

Switching to a 5-2 bench will give us more forward power to work off in the last 15 minutes.

ACT Crusader

@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@voodoo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

I didn't watch as I had a 50th - and I haven't watched the replay yet. So having scrolled this thread for about 12 minutes, I feel perfectly placed to select a team for redemption.

You're welcome.

De Groot

Taylor

Lomax

Darry

Vaii (50/50 with Patrick)

Finau

Cane (or Paps, I don't really care)

Ardie (hooked for Sititi early if not playing out of his skin)

Ratima

Dmac

Clarke

ALB

Ioane

Jordan

Jordie B (yes sir)

Happy to have helped out guys, see you in a week.

The Redeem team, except where is our Kobe? Oh I see you’ve picked Cane….

Razor and Rangi, I know you lurk so get your skates on and pick this team

EdG, Taylor, Lomax, Darry, Vaa’i, Finau, Papali’i, Jacobson, Ratima, DMac, Clarke, ALB, Proctor, Ioane, Jordie

Aumua, Ofa, Williams, Lord, Sititi, Hotham, Beaudie, Jordan

Who are you and how did you get ACTC's log in details?

One All Blacks. I don’t see province/franchise like some of the one-eyed ~~Blues~~, ~~Chiefs~~, ~~Hurricanes~~, ~~Wellington~~, ~~Auckland~~, ~~Ta$man~~, ~~Hawkes Bay~~, supporters on here

Mr Fish

It's interesting that Ethan de Groot's place hasn't been questioned at all.

He's an excellent scrummager - there's no question about that - but he still offers very little around the field. He's not one of the 'new breed' of props and without any scrums during his time on the field (which is admittedly a rare occurrence), he offered little on the park.

Chris

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

It's interesting that Ethan de Groot's place hasn't been questioned at all.

He's an excellent scrummager - there's no question about that - but he still offers very little around the field. He's not one of the 'new breed' of props and without any scrums during his time on the field (which is admittedly a rare occurrence), he offered little on the park.

Yep totally agree

kpkanz

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Best of a bad bunch on the day I suppose.

Except you brought that game up as evidence of his ineffectiveness and why he shouldn't be picked, only to find out he was actually one of the best performers that day.

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

On the stats front, Blackadder made 20 tackles against Argentina and everyone still wants him gone. These players are not passing the eye test.

I mean again you're making a few subjective statements. ALB doesn't pass the eye test for YOU, but he does for me and for many others.

While the objective metrics such as defenders beaten and linebreaks backs up what I and others are seeing on the field.

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

ALB, Beaudy, Perenara keep getting picked as the “safe pair of hands” types. Experience , game managers and all that nonsense

ALB isn't just the 'safe pair of hands' though is he. He is pretty much at the top of this years super rugby in regards to defenders beaten and linebreaks for the midfielders.

He's also ahead of Proctor in line breaks while equal on defenders beaten (even though ALB has less minutes and carries).

So he's actually extremely dynamic.

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Proctor , Ratima and Jordan have the hot hands. The other 3 are yesterdays men.

I'm also not sure why you're grouping ALB with Beauden and Perenara who are both well past 30.

ALB is 29. Same age as Dmac. Only 4 years difference between him and Proctor and easily young enough to make the next world cup.

Besides all this I really like Proctor as well.
If we were actually picking our current best midfield it should be ALB/Proctor.

Riekos been horribly out of form for a while and Jordie hasn't been that impressive either recently.

Jet

@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Best of a bad bunch on the day I suppose.

Except you brought that game up as evidence of his ineffectiveness and why he shouldn't be picked, only to find out he was actually one of the best performers that day.

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

On the stats front, Blackadder made 20 tackles against Argentina and everyone still wants him gone. These players are not passing the eye test.

I mean again you're making a few subjective statements. ALB doesn't pass the eye test for YOU, but he does for me and for many others.

While the objective metrics such as defenders beaten and linebreaks backs up what I and others are seeing on the field.

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

ALB, Beaudy, Perenara keep getting picked as the “safe pair of hands” types. Experience , game managers and all that nonsense

ALB isn't just the 'safe pair of hands' though is he. He is pretty much at the top of this years super rugby in regards to defenders beaten and linebreaks for the midfielders.

He's also ahead of Proctor in line breaks while equal on defenders beaten (even though ALB has less minutes and carries).

So he's actually extremely dynamic.

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Proctor , Ratima and Jordan have the hot hands. The other 3 are yesterdays men.

I'm also not sure why you're grouping ALB with Beauden and Perenara who are both well past 30.

ALB is 29. Same age as Dmac. Only 4 years difference between him and Proctor and easily young enough to make the next world cup.

Besides all this I really like Proctor as well.
If we were actually picking our current best midfield it should be ALB/Proctor.

Riekos been horribly out of form for a while and Jordie hasn't been that impressive either recently.

Fair points.

nostrildamus

I gotta say ALB and Proctor looked like ABs but I don't know if the Fijian midfield was the right measure, the whole team hung back far more than England and Argentina.

gt12

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Victor-Meldrew

Jason Ryan’s area of responsibility is underperforming right now. Big time.

He is the coach with the longest tenure and has the most international experience.

He also has not selected the best player in Super rugby this year, which is seemingly based on a personal vendetta.

He had a great start to his AB coaching career but he really needs to get his forwards delivering pronto.

Supposedly, Razor selects the loose forwards (that's my understanding of the process as describe in the media), so based on that, he doesn't get to hide behind anything if if our loosies are shit. in fact, it is likely the absolute only set of positions of the field where we get to evaluate him as a selector and coach with little other influence.

pakman

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

It's interesting that Ethan de Groot's place hasn't been questioned at all.

He's an excellent scrummager - there's no question about that - but he still offers very little around the field. He's not one of the 'new breed' of props and without any scrums during his time on the field (which is admittedly a rare occurrence), he offered little on the park.

Has to be there for Boks tests.

nostrildamus

@pakman said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

It's interesting that Ethan de Groot's place hasn't been questioned at all.

He's an excellent scrummager - there's no question about that - but he still offers very little around the field. He's not one of the 'new breed' of props and without any scrums during his time on the field (which is admittedly a rare occurrence), he offered little on the park.

Has to be there for Boks tests.

at the start of the game I could swear de Groot was putting some dominant tackles.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks v Argentina II