All Blacks v Argentina II
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kpkanz like I said, no point conversing with you. Added bonus points to that for the word "triggered", definitely not worth conversing with people who use that to describe someone not sharing their opinion.
Someone earlier claimed Rieko was the only one who played poorly.
You replied saying BS and provided all your reasons why.
I provided direct counters that (I felt) invalidated your reasons.
You refuse to engage back and defend your position because apparently I have made my mind up (even though you never provided a single counter to even ascertain whether my mind could be changed).
Very convenient that when you don't have any valid justification for your opinion it's only because I am so bad faith that you refuse to engage. As opposed to you not being able to defend your original positions without looking disingenuous or misinformed.
Makes the whole point of a rugby forum and 'discussion' pointless but if it makes you feel better to die on that hill go ahead.
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@kpkanz I think it's quite clear I'm not dying on any hill. Keep up the ranting though, I'm so triggered I've come out the other side and finding it hilarious.
@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kpkanz I think it's quite clear I'm not dying on any hill. Keep up the ranting though, I'm so triggered I've come out the other side and finding it hilarious.
Still haven't provided a single counter.
All the best
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kpkanz I think it's quite clear I'm not dying on any hill. Keep up the ranting though, I'm so triggered I've come out the other side and finding it hilarious.
Still haven't provided a single counter.
All the best -
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
I respect your right to disagree. Unfortunately World Rugby says your viewpoint is incorrect
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
That is rarely a consideration in rugby these days. In league it definitely comes into play more.
This is all split second stuff, but Aumua entered that tackle on an angle that he needed to have a lower body height.
The below is right before impact. His shoulder needed to be lower to get him in the ribs and then not run the risk of head contact.
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under current interpretations that was a definite yellow.
but
my problem with that interpretation is, just based on that still alone, the highest body part a the point of contact was the shoulder of the tackled player. if there was slightly less force from both players (a change in direction sent the tackled in to the tackler much quicker) then there is no sanction. He's essentially carded for going too hard. I hate that.
agree that the lesson here is aim at the bottom of the ribs and end his night while you stay on the field, and have the games most replayed highlight.
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@Bones said in [All Blacks v Argentina II]
I said what I meant, not the various different words you tried to pretend I said. I don't think it's worth conversing about Rieko with you, you've clearly made up your mind he provides no value and look at all the stats and stats only to prove it!
Where did I pretend?
@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Or shall we just ignore the lack of change out wide for Argentina, the extra space out wide for black, the fuck all line breaks and turnovers in the midfield?
So in the context of discussing Rieko you insinuated he was the reason for 'fuck all line breaks and turnovers in the midfield'.
Rieko had the 2nd least tackles made (Jordie made 3x as many) in the entire backline but you are giving him all the credit for shoring up the midfield defense?
Rieko had the most turnovers in the entire team but you are giving him credit for the midfield turnovers supposedly being eradicated?
You're triggered by my stats so what's your alternative? Do you have some intangible evidence I'm not aware of that somehow makes what you said above true?? If you think I'm naively only looking at stats educate me and tell me what I'm missing.
Otherwise if not, maybe don't just spread false narratives that can be easily falsified by a quick look at what actually happened in the game.
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I liked the short ball from Jordie to Rieko that they used a couple of times, if there is a poor read or miss there, I think it is well designed for him. If we can get animation and timing then I could see what they were trying to achieve.
Also, with this idea of chips to break down the rush, he’s very valuable - I liked how they used Dmac there as well - he seems much quicker and can change direction much better than Jordie. That try was so well done that we can hold either hold the man behind (creating wider space) or take advantage anytime there isn’t a man behind.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
Doesn't matter whether the head contact was accidental. Heads touching there mean you're flirting with a red, and it's a nailed on yellow.
This isn't the way 'we' necessarily want this reffed - but it is the norm aroudn the world. You can see why we get so many cards ... our tackle technique is years out of date. I don't like it, but it's the rules of the game
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Good win. Does it not rain in Argentina? They didn't handle the conditions at all, they were awful frankly.
We were busy and harrassed the Argentinians in to errors. And then buttfucked their scrum. Lineout was OK, lots of using our shorter jumpers at 2.
Good with turnover ball as well.
Last 20 was a bit ordinary, but everything looked like it had an extra edge to it. Some of the poor bits from last week were still there, and weirdly I think we score less points in the dry. Nice confidence booster before the next challenge.
@mariner4life Argentina looked like they'd been on the piss all week For sure a much better performance but still an unconvincing performance from an uninspired selection
So far this season we have struggled at home against the world #5 team capitulated against the #7 (ranked lower until they beat us) and won comfortably away against the number 10.
A good 40 minutes against Argentina doesn't disguise the inherent weaknesses in this team or inspire confidence that we are in for anything other than pain against the Bokke
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it sounds really harsh but i don't disagree. We did apply a lot more pressure this week, and they made some errors off that. But when we went through the phases i didn't think we were getting much change (and Ardie beastmode bullshit run aside. wait, that's not fair, one of them actually resulted in quick ball off the back of it).
We were able to open up the field a lot easier this week, as the Argie tackling was far less accurate, and there was far less heat on our ruck.
Great confidence booster in really shitty conditions though, we absolutely slapped them. Probably could have scored two more tries in the 2nd half with an ounce more patience.
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@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
I respect your right to disagree. Unfortunately World Rugby says your viewpoint is incorrect
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
I respect your right to disagree. Unfortunately World Rugby says your viewpoint is incorrect
And I'm calling World Rugby's viewpoint BS.
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@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
Doesn't matter whether the head contact was accidental. Heads touching there mean you're flirting with a red, and it's a nailed on yellow.
This isn't the way 'we' necessarily want this reffed - but it is the norm aroudn the world. You can see why we get so many cards ... our tackle technique is years out of date. I don't like it, but it's the rules of the game
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
Doesn't matter whether the head contact was accidental. Heads touching there mean you're flirting with a red, and it's a nailed on yellow.
This isn't the way 'we' necessarily want this reffed - but it is the norm aroudn the world. You can see why we get so many cards ... our tackle technique is years out of date. I don't like it, but it's the rules of the game
It's completely flawed. There are head knocks almost every tackle. The laws have caused exponential cards yet nothing has changed in terms of injuries. It was nothing more than a god hard tackle.
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@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
That is rarely a consideration in rugby these days. In league it definitely comes into play more.
This is all split second stuff, but Aumua entered that tackle on an angle that he needed to have a lower body height.
The below is right before impact. His shoulder needed to be lower to get him in the ribs and then not run the risk of head contact.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
That is rarely a consideration in rugby these days. In league it definitely comes into play more.
This is all split second stuff, but Aumua entered that tackle on an angle that he needed to have a lower body height.
The below is right before impact. His shoulder needed to be lower to get him in the ribs and then not run the risk of head contact.
Aumua is crouching and lower than the Argie.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs.
Really?
Felt the deep crossfield kicking aiming at the 50-22s pinned them back and worked really well.
Much happier with those than the middle distance kicking last year's team employed.
IMHO we need to work on our accuracy (DMac overcooked a couple for example), but the intent was good. Not a box kick in sight for much of the game. And good riddance
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
kicking (place-kicking aside) is very average from ABs.
Really?
Felt the deep crossfield kicking aiming at the 50-22s pinned them back and worked really well.
Much happier with those than the middle distance kicking last year's team employed.
IMHO we need to work on our accuracy (DMac overcooked a couple for example), but the intent was good. Not a box kick in sight for much of the game. And good riddance
TJP did one 9n attack. Odd. And didn’t work.
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Any stats on BB being the creator or final passer to a try?
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
That is rarely a consideration in rugby these days. In league it definitely comes into play more.
This is all split second stuff, but Aumua entered that tackle on an angle that he needed to have a lower body height.
The below is right before impact. His shoulder needed to be lower to get him in the ribs and then not run the risk of head contact.
Aumua is crouching and lower than the Argie.
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@sparky said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
- It was high.
- There was some head contact.
How is a tackle in the ribs high? There’s head contact when the ball carrier hinges horizontal into contact. If that is yellow, then you have to PK every time a bloke drops his head running at the line.
I think you have to look at the way the tackle is ruled these days to see your argument is false. Aumua was too upright, and there is head to head contact along with the impact from the tackle to the body. You can't get away with that most of the time, as a general rule this is nothing new for the last couple of years. Of course there have been the odd incident that has been let go (Kolisi on Ardie, Porter on BBBR) for reasons I can't understand.
Completely disagree. He smacks him fair in the ribs. The head clash was purely accidental.
That is rarely a consideration in rugby these days. In league it definitely comes into play more.
This is all split second stuff, but Aumua entered that tackle on an angle that he needed to have a lower body height.
The below is right before impact. His shoulder needed to be lower to get him in the ribs and then not run the risk of head contact.
Aumua is crouching and lower than the Argie.
That’s because he’s Gimli…
His lead shoulder is too high still hence why the head contact occurred.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kpkanz I think it's quite clear I'm not dying on any hill. Keep up the ranting though, I'm so triggered I've come out the other side and finding it hilarious.
Still haven't provided a single counter.
All the best@kpkanz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@kpkanz I think it's quite clear I'm not dying on any hill. Keep up the ranting though, I'm so triggered I've come out the other side and finding it hilarious.
Still haven't provided a single counter.
All the bestI will confess to not watching this one as closely as usual as I had other stuff going on, but I would be wary of using stats as the be all and end all for someone's performance. They can be a good indicator, but they can also be very dependent on the role a player is asked to play, and whether play goes their way as a result. I would also hesitate to sing the praises of the subs given we lost our shape when they came on.
I can also guarantee you opposition players would rather defend against the much slower ALB than Rieko who can burn you in the blink of an eye.
