All Blacks 2024
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones Even more ironic that Narawa has been playing center the entirety of the NPC since being out of All Blacks camp (I'd say EXTREMELY likely at the request of Razor).
Would be hilarious if he usurps Rieko as starting center.
I think Narawa can be a future great All Black, reminds me a lot of Sivivatu, very high spatial awareness and game IQ. Game looks slow motion for him.
Just watched BOP vs Ta$man highlights there.
Narawa had some lovely touches at centre. Scored one from 50 meters, set up another from 60 meters, and set up another that was chalked off incorrectly with a lovely one handed offload.
Admittedly not test level, but he looked dangerous. He didnt look like a winger at centre.
He looked like a centre.
At NPC level ffs.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones Even more ironic that Narawa has been playing center the entirety of the NPC since being out of All Blacks camp (I'd say EXTREMELY likely at the request of Razor).
Would be hilarious if he usurps Rieko as starting center.
I think Narawa can be a future great All Black, reminds me a lot of Sivivatu, very high spatial awareness and game IQ. Game looks slow motion for him.
Just watched BOP vs Ta$man highlights there.
Narawa had some lovely touches at centre. Scored one from 50 meters, set up another from 60 meters, and set up another that was chalked off incorrectly with a lovely one handed offload.
Admittedly not test level, but he looked dangerous. He didnt look like a winger at centre.
He looked like a centre.
At NPC level ffs.
Yeah agreed, but it is all we've got right now. It was at least against Ta$man, who are not the worst side.
For all its problems, it's also still a high enough level that our lost saviour at 6 is able to stink it up now that he's captain couldn't give a shit. -
I'd be happier to swap in Love at fullback and Ratima to start at halfback than almost any other change in this squad.
Which brings to me my concern that there's not much they can do because the squad itself is heavily compromised. Finau is finding his feet at Test level and learning it's a big step up. Blackadder is busy but doesn't dominate and Ardie is well out of form - basically all the good parts of his game have evaporated and the criticisms remain.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'd be happier to swap in Love at fullback and Ratima to start at halfback than almost any other change in this squad.
Which brings to me my concern that there's not much they can do because the squad itself is heavily compromised. Finau is finding his feet at Test level and learning it's a big step up. Blackadder is busy but doesn't dominate and Ardie is well out of form - basically all the good parts of his game have evaporated and the criticisms remain.
100% this.
Here's an example.
One guy that strikes me as someone that would be a great option to debut would be Numia as a bench loosehead. Would offer serious bench impact
But no...they chose Bower to replace EDG...
Just on another note - ALB makes no sense as a bench player when he is only good at 12 now.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'd be happier to swap in Love at fullback and Ratima to start at halfback than almost any other change in this squad.
Which brings to me my concern that there's not much they can do because the squad itself is heavily compromised. Finau is finding his feet at Test level and learning it's a big step up. Blackadder is busy but doesn't dominate and Ardie is well out of form - basically all the good parts of his game have evaporated and the criticisms remain.
100% this.
Here's an example.
One guy that strikes me as someone that would be a great option to debut would be Numia as a bench loosehead. Would offer serious bench impact
But no...they chose Bower to replace EDG...
Just on another note - ALB makes no sense as a bench player when he is only good at 12 now.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'd be happier to swap in Love at fullback and Ratima to start at halfback than almost any other change in this squad.
Which brings to me my concern that there's not much they can do because the squad itself is heavily compromised. Finau is finding his feet at Test level and learning it's a big step up. Blackadder is busy but doesn't dominate and Ardie is well out of form - basically all the good parts of his game have evaporated and the criticisms remain.
100% this.
Here's an example.
One guy that strikes me as someone that would be a great option to debut would be Numia as a bench loosehead. Would offer serious bench impact
But no...they chose Bower to replace EDG...
Just on another note - ALB makes no sense as a bench player when he is only good at 12 now.
Yep. Razor has backed himself into a hole with his selections in certain areas.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones Even more ironic that Narawa has been playing center the entirety of the NPC since being out of All Blacks camp (I'd say EXTREMELY likely at the request of Razor).
Would be hilarious if he usurps Rieko as starting center.
I think Narawa can be a future great All Black, reminds me a lot of Sivivatu, very high spatial awareness and game IQ. Game looks slow motion for him.
Just watched BOP vs Ta$man highlights there.
Narawa had some lovely touches at centre. Scored one from 50 meters, set up another from 60 meters, and set up another that was chalked off incorrectly with a lovely one handed offload.
Admittedly not test level, but he looked dangerous. He didnt look like a winger at centre.
He looked like a centre.
At NPC level ffs.
Yeah agreed, but it is all we've got right now. It was at least against Ta$man, who are not the worst side.
For all its problems, it's also still a high enough level that our lost saviour at 6 is able to stink it up now that he's captain couldn't give a shit.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
For all its problems, it's also still a high enough level that our lost saviour at 6 is able to stink it up now that he's captain couldn't give a shit.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
Who are all these new posters with the hottest and shittest takes?
Agreed. They take over all the GameDay threads too the weirdos. Its like reading stupid social media takes on that legend of marty banks page (another weirdo).
The Highlanders new fans on here are good value though.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
The Highlanders new fans on here are good value though.
Cheers mate, was getting worried there for a second.
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Sick of Razor's needlessly disruptive use of the subs, and his selection of bench players who don't make a positive impact.
We are losing our structure in the last 20 minutes of every test, stop rearranging the f---ing backline around to shoehorn the sideways running backline shape destroying Telea & ALB into 13.
If you have to just take off one of the wingers and the halfback to minimize the disruption to our attack, it's ruining our cohesion and momentum.
Having said that, how can you not score a single try in the last 20 minutes of 7 tests after bringing a complete bench of fresh players onto the field? It's unforgivable.
Ofa, ALB, Finau, Telea, etc. would rather have guys like Tosi/Numia, Tupaea/Proctor, Lakai, AJ Lam, etc. coming on than overrated duds like ALB, Telea who stink up the backline shape by crabbing sideways and killing our momentum on attack.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
Sick of Razor's needlessly disruptive use of the subs, and his selection of bench players who don't make a positive impact.
We are losing our structure in the last 20 minutes of every test, stop rearranging the f---ing backline around to shoehorn the sideways running backline shape destroying Telea & ALB into 13.
If you have to just take off one of the wingers and the halfback to minimize the disruption to our attack, it's ruining our cohesion and momentum.
Having said that, how can you not score a single try in the last 20 minutes of 7 tests after bringing a complete bench of fresh players onto the field? It's unforgivable.
Ofa, ALB, Finau, Telea, etc. would rather have guys like Tosi/Numia, Tupaea/Proctor, Lakai, AJ Lam, etc. coming on than overrated duds like ALB, Telea who stink up the backline shape by crabbing sideways and killing our momentum on attack.
ALB led super rugby in linebreaks/defenders beaten for ALL midfielders. He was the most dynamic attacking threat easily this year.
And you want to replace him with TUPAEA??
Finding it hilarious that the back replacements are being blamed for this loss. That last 15 mins we had pretty much 15% possession. I'm not sure how ALB/Telea are to blame for that and what they're supposed to do with no ball.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
SA in SA isn't necessarily the place to blood a greenhorn
Lima Sopoaga has entered teh conversation
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
SA in SA isn't necessarily the place to blood a greenhorn
Lima Sopoaga has entered teh conversation
The poor fella. It was all downhill after that debut too…
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'd be happier to swap in Love at fullback and Ratima to start at halfback than almost any other change in this squad.
Which brings to me my concern that there's not much they can do because the squad itself is heavily compromised. Finau is finding his feet at Test level and learning it's a big step up. Blackadder is busy but doesn't dominate and Ardie is well out of form - basically all the good parts of his game have evaporated and the criticisms remain.
100% this.
Here's an example.
One guy that strikes me as someone that would be a great option to debut would be Numia as a bench loosehead. Would offer serious bench impact
But no...they chose Bower to replace EDG...
Just on another note - ALB makes no sense as a bench player when he is only good at 12 now.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'd be happier to swap in Love at fullback and Ratima to start at halfback than almost any other change in this squad.
Which brings to me my concern that there's not much they can do because the squad itself is heavily compromised. Finau is finding his feet at Test level and learning it's a big step up. Blackadder is busy but doesn't dominate and Ardie is well out of form - basically all the good parts of his game have evaporated and the criticisms remain.
100% this.
Here's an example.
One guy that strikes me as someone that would be a great option to debut would be Numia as a bench loosehead. Would offer serious bench impact
But no...they chose Bower to replace EDG...
Just on another note - ALB makes no sense as a bench player when he is only good at 12 now.
As a squad backup.
We’ve had this discussion before, but in this particular circumstance I think having an experienced head to come in seamlessly without having to train up a new player serves the short term need before EdG returns. Plus it’s not like Bower is a mug. He was the Saders best prop earlier this season before injury.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
I guess I just find it hard to believe that when an All Black is released to NPC to get some game time, that the NPC coach can override the wishes of the national coach and play them out of position, making the entire exercise pointless and potentially hindering the national team. (devils advocate, you can argue here that actually Narawa is so out of the ABs picture that Robertson let the Steamer coach know he can play him wherever he chooses, although I highly doubt that is the situation).
I don't think NPC coaches give a flying fuck what the All Blacks coach wants - they're too busy trying to make their own squad win.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
I guess I just find it hard to believe that when an All Black is released to NPC to get some game time, that the NPC coach can override the wishes of the national coach and play them out of position, making the entire exercise pointless and potentially hindering the national team. (devils advocate, you can argue here that actually Narawa is so out of the ABs picture that Robertson let the Steamer coach know he can play him wherever he chooses, although I highly doubt that is the situation).
I don't think NPC coaches give a flying fuck what the All Blacks coach wants - they're too busy trying to make their own squad win.
I don't think they give a flying fuck. I think they're "asked politely" from the higher ups to play their current All Blacks (the rare times they're available) in a certain position every now and then.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
I guess I just find it hard to believe that when an All Black is released to NPC to get some game time, that the NPC coach can override the wishes of the national coach and play them out of position, making the entire exercise pointless and potentially hindering the national team. (devils advocate, you can argue here that actually Narawa is so out of the ABs picture that Robertson let the Steamer coach know he can play him wherever he chooses, although I highly doubt that is the situation).
I don't think NPC coaches give a flying fuck what the All Blacks coach wants - they're too busy trying to make their own squad win.
I don't think they give a flying fuck. I think they're "asked politely" from the higher ups to play their current All Blacks (the rare times they're available) in a certain position every now and then.
@kpkanz They might be asked, but there's no requirement for NPC coaches to accede - they're trying to ensure they're successful and have a job.
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@kpkanz They might be asked, but there's no requirement for NPC coaches to accede - they're trying to ensure they're successful and have a job.
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@kpkanz They might be asked, but there's no requirement for NPC coaches to accede - they're trying to ensure they're successful and have a job.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz They might be asked, but there's no requirement for NPC coaches to accede - they're trying to ensure they're successful and have a job.
This is from the job description of the expectations for an NPC coach/assistant coach job.
1st and 3rd points.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz They might be asked, but there's no requirement for NPC coaches to accede - they're trying to ensure they're successful and have a job.
This is from the job description of the expectations for an NPC coach/assistant coach job.
1st and 3rd points.
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
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@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
That doesn't mean what you think it means. EOD
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
That doesn't mean what you think it means. EOD
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
That doesn't mean what you think it means. EOD
fair play to @kpkanz , a corporate reading of that is 'do what you get told'. I'm with him on that one - 'betterment of NZ rugby' gets assessed by the senior person I reckon.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
The ABs atm and their selections are doing my head in. It's a large case of try the same shit with the same players and expect different results. I agree with @darylmitchell, we need to stop giving players that have had plenty of chances to prove themselves time in the Black jersey. ALB and Ioane aren't cutting it for me in the centres, we need to give Proctor a run there. Bring Numia in for Ofa, he dismantled Canterbury's scrum yesterday and once again showed why he should be an AB after being the form prop in Super. Guys like Sititi, Lakai etc aswell are players that will propel the ABs and allow us to play the expansive game that many of us desire.
A big issue atm is when we've got Blackadder on the park with Cane/Papali'i we have F all go forward on attack and this is severely inhibiting our ability to get to the edges and release our attacking weapons.
I'd love to see the below 23 get a run on the end of year tour. I'm done with the 'hard hitting 7', we need someone that has the ability to be effective on both sides of the ball. Oh the irony.
- Wiliams
- Taylor
- Lomax
- S Barrett
- Darry
- Blackadder
- Lakai
- Savea
- Roigard
- McKenzie
- Clarke
- J Barrett
- Proctor
- Jordan
- Love
- Aumua
- Numia
- Newell
- Va'ai
- Sititi
- Ratima
- B Barrett
- Ioane
I agree with the premise. We have gone fairly stale.
We got an instant uptick when EDG and Lomax were thrown in, along with Fletch and Tamaiti when Fosters back was to the wall.
We similarly need to inject some effervescence into the backs now too. Some youthful enthusiasm.
Be it Ratima, Proctor, Love or otherwise.
Rassie is throwing Sasha and Fassi in at the deep end among others.
So not only are we losing in the here and now, we are also behind in the development stakes.
We have become shrinking violets at the selection table.
And now Razor is in the same pickle that Foster was in. He has lost a couple of games early doors and it ups the ante in every subsequent test. It becomes self preservation instead of innovation.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Rassie is throwing Sasha and Fassi in at the deep end among others.
The difference is Rassie has the momentum to do this. Much harder to do when the next game's always make-or-break.
Honestly, if Robertson loses next week or not, I wouldn't have a problem with big changes and trying something different - even if they don't all come off
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
That doesn't mean what you think it means. EOD
fair play to @kpkanz , a corporate reading of that is 'do what you get told'. I'm with him on that one - 'betterment of NZ rugby' gets assessed by the senior person I reckon.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz So you're effectively proving my point. Consulting and discussing is not the same as being told where and when to play players.
And now imagine the decreasing level to which it applies as you move down from AB XV, Māori ABs, Super Rugby and NPC...
Read the first point of the job requirement again before you die on this hill.
That doesn't mean what you think it means. EOD
fair play to @kpkanz , a corporate reading of that is 'do what you get told'. I'm with him on that one - 'betterment of NZ rugby' gets assessed by the senior person I reckon.
Disagree. The language, if deliberately chosen (and there's no reason to suggest it isn't), frames it as a consideration, not an obligation. Hence there's autonomy for the coaches.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones Even more ironic that Narawa has been playing center the entirety of the NPC since being out of All Blacks camp (I'd say EXTREMELY likely at the request of Razor).
Would be hilarious if he usurps Rieko as starting center.
I think Narawa can be a future great All Black, reminds me a lot of Sivivatu, very high spatial awareness and game IQ. Game looks slow motion for him.
Just watched BOP vs Ta$man highlights there.
Narawa had some lovely touches at centre. Scored one from 50 meters, set up another from 60 meters, and set up another that was chalked off incorrectly with a lovely one handed offload.
Admittedly not test level, but he looked dangerous. He didnt look like a winger at centre.
He looked like a centre.
At NPC level ffs.
It's club 'plus' right now. Needs serious attention - NZR should have alarm bells going off big time in HQ. Our structures need a proper refresh. You're not going to get that with all external board members necessarily - honestly, the urgency should be off the charts right now.
Revenue and success follows a nosedive in quality
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bones Even more ironic that Narawa has been playing center the entirety of the NPC since being out of All Blacks camp (I'd say EXTREMELY likely at the request of Razor).
Would be hilarious if he usurps Rieko as starting center.
I think Narawa can be a future great All Black, reminds me a lot of Sivivatu, very high spatial awareness and game IQ. Game looks slow motion for him.
Just watched BOP vs Ta$man highlights there.
Narawa had some lovely touches at centre. Scored one from 50 meters, set up another from 60 meters, and set up another that was chalked off incorrectly with a lovely one handed offload.
Admittedly not test level, but he looked dangerous. He didnt look like a winger at centre.
He looked like a centre.
At NPC level ffs.
It's club 'plus' right now. Needs serious attention - NZR should have alarm bells going off big time in HQ. Our structures need a proper refresh. You're not going to get that with all external board members necessarily - honestly, the urgency should be off the charts right now.
Revenue and success follows a nosedive in quality
Been banging that drum for some time. A lot of people have the belief all's well in NZ rugby, we have world-class cattle to burn and all that's needed is a successful AB coach delivering results and we'll get some sort of virtuous circle.
Well, it isn't a circle it's a pyramid and the foundations need looking at.
