Springboks vs All Blacks I
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re Mbonambis try.
JBs arm swings round and his hand makes contact with the ball in Mbonambis hand. The contact force causes Mbonambis elbow to flex and Mbonambis hand holding ball travels back a short distance towards Mbonambis face. The ball hits Mbonambis face and drops to the ground.
Does the whole technical aspect of this try depend on whether there is separation of Mbonambis hand and ball when travelling backwards towards his face.
If there is knock forward by JB.
If there's not knock forward by Mbonambi -
I don't mind that the ref awarded it as a try, I'm just annoyed it wasn't properly reviewed like almost every other similar try. Maybe it was a try, didn't go forward, etc. But we'll never know as it wasn't properly reviewed.
Personally imo ditch the TMO as they haven't made decision making any better. Just let the ref call it, and carry on. But there is a TMO so they should do their job
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BTW Brace was unsighted. The only way to get around this is to ask the TMO " Is there any reason not to award try"
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BTW Brace was unsighted. The only way to get around this is to ask the TMO " Is there any reason not to award try"
@BerniesCorner said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
BTW Brace was unsighted. The only way to get around this is to ask the TMO " Is there any reason not to award try"
That was the biggest mistake
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BTW Brace was unsighted. The only way to get around this is to ask the TMO " Is there any reason not to award try"
@BerniesCorner said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
BTW Brace was unsighted. The only way to get around this is to ask the TMO " Is there any reason not to award try"
Are we still hung up on old standards? I'm pretty sure it should be reviewed by the tmo anyway, without being asked.
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@BerniesCorner said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
BTW Brace was unsighted. The only way to get around this is to ask the TMO " Is there any reason not to award try"
Are we still hung up on old standards? I'm pretty sure it should be reviewed by the tmo anyway, without being asked.
@Bones that's the whole point. The TMO had the info. Is he obliged to tell the ref
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@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@ARHS said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Have posters seen the series of feature articles by Jared Wright on the Planet Rugby website? With the poor offerings from the NZ Rugby press and AB regime this year it is great to see such a learned and passionate researcher of international rugby offering so many great insights to promote positive and educated thinking. It appears that he may even be a new poster to this forum, researching perspectives from a wide variety of fans in preparation for release of his articles.
The same 'learned and passionate researcher' that tries to argue that Jordie actually knocked on and Mbonambi merely applied pressure to the ball for a legitimate try?
Even a partisan crowd went silent - they know what they saw.
You're assuming that the partisan crowd is up on the flowchart of what happens in this situation. Jeff Wilson can tell you where to find that chart. For what its worth, the flowchart would mean the try would have been awarded.
Was the partisan crowd correct in baying for a red card when Sam Cane broke Kolisis face? I haven't looked back in the thread, but as one eyed as you are I'm sure i'll find somewhere where that you think it was play on.@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@ARHS said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Have posters seen the series of feature articles by Jared Wright on the Planet Rugby website? With the poor offerings from the NZ Rugby press and AB regime this year it is great to see such a learned and passionate researcher of international rugby offering so many great insights to promote positive and educated thinking. It appears that he may even be a new poster to this forum, researching perspectives from a wide variety of fans in preparation for release of his articles.
The same 'learned and passionate researcher' that tries to argue that Jordie actually knocked on and Mbonambi merely applied pressure to the ball for a legitimate try?
Even a partisan crowd went silent - they know what they saw.
You're assuming that the partisan crowd is up on the flowchart of what happens in this situation. Jeff Wilson can tell you where to find that chart. For what its worth, the flowchart would mean the try would have been awarded.
Was the partisan crowd correct in baying for a red card when Sam Cane broke Kolisis face? I haven't looked back in the thread, but as one eyed as you are I'm sure i'll find somewhere where that you think it was play on.According to Jason Ryan, the tmo checked it and said ‘glancing only’
Could always have been cited if it met the red card threshold
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BTW Brace was unsighted. The only way to get around this is to ask the TMO " Is there any reason not to award try"
@BerniesCorner said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
BTW Brace was unsighted. The only way to get around this is to ask the TMO " Is there any reason not to award try"
Yes, there was no way he could have seen the grounding
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@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@gt12 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I can't believe it, the breakdown finally provides some actual data and some good points. Stopped clocks and all that, but Goldie is right, there is no reason for us to carry a winger on the bench when we could load up with another loosie or lock. I guess the counter point is that our back-ups aren't good enough, but we could get fresh legs out there while we still have 1st 5 cover with Dmac and Barrett. Seems a strange call by the coaches.
It's pretty strange when they make a big thing about having utility value in players and then use it in all the wrong ways. Like, it seems they couldn't get it more wrong every time they sub or even name a bench?
Someone is gonna pull Razor's mask off and it's Fozzie.
Can someone make a shitty Scooby Doo meme with this ?
@MN5 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@gt12 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I can't believe it, the breakdown finally provides some actual data and some good points. Stopped clocks and all that, but Goldie is right, there is no reason for us to carry a winger on the bench when we could load up with another loosie or lock. I guess the counter point is that our back-ups aren't good enough, but we could get fresh legs out there while we still have 1st 5 cover with Dmac and Barrett. Seems a strange call by the coaches.
It's pretty strange when they make a big thing about having utility value in players and then use it in all the wrong ways. Like, it seems they couldn't get it more wrong every time they sub or even name a bench?
Someone is gonna pull Razor's mask off and it's Fozzie.
Can someone make a shitty Scooby Doo meme with this ?
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@MN5 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@gt12 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I can't believe it, the breakdown finally provides some actual data and some good points. Stopped clocks and all that, but Goldie is right, there is no reason for us to carry a winger on the bench when we could load up with another loosie or lock. I guess the counter point is that our back-ups aren't good enough, but we could get fresh legs out there while we still have 1st 5 cover with Dmac and Barrett. Seems a strange call by the coaches.
It's pretty strange when they make a big thing about having utility value in players and then use it in all the wrong ways. Like, it seems they couldn't get it more wrong every time they sub or even name a bench?
Someone is gonna pull Razor's mask off and it's Fozzie.
Can someone make a shitty Scooby Doo meme with this ?
@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@MN5 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@gt12 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I can't believe it, the breakdown finally provides some actual data and some good points. Stopped clocks and all that, but Goldie is right, there is no reason for us to carry a winger on the bench when we could load up with another loosie or lock. I guess the counter point is that our back-ups aren't good enough, but we could get fresh legs out there while we still have 1st 5 cover with Dmac and Barrett. Seems a strange call by the coaches.
It's pretty strange when they make a big thing about having utility value in players and then use it in all the wrong ways. Like, it seems they couldn't get it more wrong every time they sub or even name a bench?
Someone is gonna pull Razor's mask off and it's Fozzie.
Can someone make a shitty Scooby Doo meme with this ?
Upvote for effort but I’d prefer photoshops of their actual faces
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@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@MN5 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@gt12 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I can't believe it, the breakdown finally provides some actual data and some good points. Stopped clocks and all that, but Goldie is right, there is no reason for us to carry a winger on the bench when we could load up with another loosie or lock. I guess the counter point is that our back-ups aren't good enough, but we could get fresh legs out there while we still have 1st 5 cover with Dmac and Barrett. Seems a strange call by the coaches.
It's pretty strange when they make a big thing about having utility value in players and then use it in all the wrong ways. Like, it seems they couldn't get it more wrong every time they sub or even name a bench?
Someone is gonna pull Razor's mask off and it's Fozzie.
Can someone make a shitty Scooby Doo meme with this ?
Upvote for effort but I’d prefer photoshops of their actual faces
@MN5 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@MN5 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@gt12 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I can't believe it, the breakdown finally provides some actual data and some good points. Stopped clocks and all that, but Goldie is right, there is no reason for us to carry a winger on the bench when we could load up with another loosie or lock. I guess the counter point is that our back-ups aren't good enough, but we could get fresh legs out there while we still have 1st 5 cover with Dmac and Barrett. Seems a strange call by the coaches.
It's pretty strange when they make a big thing about having utility value in players and then use it in all the wrong ways. Like, it seems they couldn't get it more wrong every time they sub or even name a bench?
Someone is gonna pull Razor's mask off and it's Fozzie.
Can someone make a shitty Scooby Doo meme with this ?
Upvote for effort but I’d prefer photoshops of their actual faces
you ask for shitty meme, you get shitty meme.
Photoshop is well beyond my skillz. Get someone with Chat GPT functionality to do that...
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@gt12 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I can't believe it, the breakdown finally provides some actual data and some good points. Stopped clocks and all that, but Goldie is right, there is no reason for us to carry a winger on the bench when we could load up with another loosie or lock. I guess the counter point is that our back-ups aren't good enough, but we could get fresh legs out there while we still have 1st 5 cover with Dmac and Barrett. Seems a strange call by the coaches.
It's pretty strange when they make a big thing about having utility value in players and then use it in all the wrong ways. Like, it seems they couldn't get it more wrong every time they sub or even name a bench?
Someone is gonna pull Razor's mask off and it's Fozzie.
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@gt12 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I can't believe it, the breakdown finally provides some actual data and some good points. Stopped clocks and all that, but Goldie is right, there is no reason for us to carry a winger on the bench when we could load up with another loosie or lock. I guess the counter point is that our back-ups aren't good enough, but we could get fresh legs out there while we still have 1st 5 cover with Dmac and Barrett. Seems a strange call by the coaches.
Someone is gonna pull Razor's mask off and it's Fozzie.
"I'd have got away with it, if it hadn't been for you pesky Ferners".
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One last thing about Mbonambis try-it doesn't matter whether the ball went backwards by the tiniest margin, or straight down or forwards or whether jordie was the only one touching it, dislodging it forwards.
The thing is, every person playing and watching rugby knows this is and should be ruled a knock on. I have not seen a single non South African on reddit say the try was awarded correctly, because you would expect this to be chalked off ten out of ten times, as it is the onus of the ball carrier to keep it under control. Similar to how Jordan knocked the ball on around 65 Mins or when that was, even if the ball went sideways.Was it Marius jonker on the bulls vs some. Aussie side in super rugby?
Anyways, Boks finished far better and did an 2012-2016 ABs on the ABs, so probably deserved the win at the end. Just.
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@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@ARHS said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Have posters seen the series of feature articles by Jared Wright on the Planet Rugby website? With the poor offerings from the NZ Rugby press and AB regime this year it is great to see such a learned and passionate researcher of international rugby offering so many great insights to promote positive and educated thinking. It appears that he may even be a new poster to this forum, researching perspectives from a wide variety of fans in preparation for release of his articles.
The same 'learned and passionate researcher' that tries to argue that Jordie actually knocked on and Mbonambi merely applied pressure to the ball for a legitimate try?
Even a partisan crowd went silent - they know what they saw.
You're assuming that the partisan crowd is up on the flowchart of what happens in this situation. Jeff Wilson can tell you where to find that chart. For what its worth, the flowchart would mean the try would have been awarded.
Was the partisan crowd correct in baying for a red card when Sam Cane broke Kolisis face? I haven't looked back in the thread, but as one eyed as you are I'm sure i'll find somewhere where that you think it was play on.According to Jason Ryan, the tmo checked it and said ‘glancing only’
Could always have been cited if it met the red card threshold
@DaGrubster the image NZH posted showed another AB tackling Kolisi around his hips potentially affecting Kolisis path and then Cane too upright, again.
As to the 'try' it looked to me to come forward out of the Boks control into JB then forward off JB into the Bok...as I said pages back, I have no issues with the Ref awarding that try and not using the TMO, IF that is how they always do it, but we know it isn't and we have more of the inconsistency we see week in week out.
Anywho, guess the issue is the TMO seems to pick and choose when to intervene, think WR really need to tighten up thier protocols and it is clear when they can and can't bring something to the refs attention without him asking.
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@DaGrubster the image NZH posted showed another AB tackling Kolisi around his hips potentially affecting Kolisis path and then Cane too upright, again.
As to the 'try' it looked to me to come forward out of the Boks control into JB then forward off JB into the Bok...as I said pages back, I have no issues with the Ref awarding that try and not using the TMO, IF that is how they always do it, but we know it isn't and we have more of the inconsistency we see week in week out.
Anywho, guess the issue is the TMO seems to pick and choose when to intervene, think WR really need to tighten up thier protocols and it is clear when they can and can't bring something to the refs attention without him asking.
@taniwharugby
In the act of scoring it's the refs call. He awarded an unsighted touchdown as a try.
On every occasion if the grounding is unsighted it must be referred to the TMO.
On this occasion it is unfair for Razor et al. and shouldn't have happened. -
One last thing about Mbonambis try-it doesn't matter whether the ball went backwards by the tiniest margin, or straight down or forwards or whether jordie was the only one touching it, dislodging it forwards.
The thing is, every person playing and watching rugby knows this is and should be ruled a knock on. I have not seen a single non South African on reddit say the try was awarded correctly, because you would expect this to be chalked off ten out of ten times, as it is the onus of the ball carrier to keep it under control. Similar to how Jordan knocked the ball on around 65 Mins or when that was, even if the ball went sideways.Was it Marius jonker on the bulls vs some. Aussie side in super rugby?
Anyways, Boks finished far better and did an 2012-2016 ABs on the ABs, so probably deserved the win at the end. Just.
@Tordah
It's impossible to know whether Mbonambi was holding the ball when the ball hit his face and dropped down.
You'd have to get the FBI involved.
Regardless it's no try. -
@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@MN5 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@gt12 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
I can't believe it, the breakdown finally provides some actual data and some good points. Stopped clocks and all that, but Goldie is right, there is no reason for us to carry a winger on the bench when we could load up with another loosie or lock. I guess the counter point is that our back-ups aren't good enough, but we could get fresh legs out there while we still have 1st 5 cover with Dmac and Barrett. Seems a strange call by the coaches.
It's pretty strange when they make a big thing about having utility value in players and then use it in all the wrong ways. Like, it seems they couldn't get it more wrong every time they sub or even name a bench?
Someone is gonna pull Razor's mask off and it's Fozzie.
Can someone make a shitty Scooby Doo meme with this ?
Upvote for effort but I’d prefer photoshops of their actual faces
@MN5 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Upvote for effort but I’d prefer photoshops of their actual faces
Then it won't look like Scooby Doo...
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@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Ryan was asked if he was happy with the refs performance.
"It was a big test for Andrew Brace, Im sure he learned a few things, as did we".
Slightly less subtle than the usual euphemisms we get.
Whenever you see a coach (in this case Razor) say "discipline let us down", or mention "ref's interpretations", just read " that fluffybunny with the whistle didn't have a fucking clue".
Sadly they aren't allowed to say that, so I will.
@Snowy said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Ryan was asked if he was happy with the refs performance.
"It was a big test for Andrew Brace, Im sure he learned a few things, as did we".
Slightly less subtle than the usual euphemisms we get.
Whenever you see a coach (in this case Razor) say "discipline let us down", or mention "ref's interpretations", just read " that fluffybunny with the whistle didn't have a fucking clue".
Sadly they aren't allowed to say that, so I will.
One of my biggest bugbears in Rugby these days.
"Discipline let us down"
Translation: The refs perceptions/ interpretation of our discipline let us down. Video evidence shows our discipline was actually fine.
"we have to be cleverer with the pictures we are showing the ref"
Translation "we have to over exaggerate our clear releases etc, because this gobshite cant be trusted to officiate fairly".
