Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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Ratima Jordan Sititi should have stayed on.
Mentally weak leadership in second half.
Have to try Canes Tosi Numia Proctor Love
Slow wingers don't work out@BerniesCorner weak leadership is very true.
Savea is a leader by action. He doesn’t strike me as a strategist. Scott and Jordie Barrett too. NZ need some thinkers in the team.
I think Proctor is a good shout. Feels like he is more in the mould of Conrad Smith than Tana Umaga.
NZ also need some smarts out wide, a la a Ben Smith.
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@BerniesCorner weak leadership is very true.
Savea is a leader by action. He doesn’t strike me as a strategist. Scott and Jordie Barrett too. NZ need some thinkers in the team.
I think Proctor is a good shout. Feels like he is more in the mould of Conrad Smith than Tana Umaga.
NZ also need some smarts out wide, a la a Ben Smith.
@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Savea is a leader by action. He doesn’t strike me as a strategist. Scott and Jordie Barrett too. NZ need some thinkers in the team.
I think Proctor is a good shout. Feels like he is more in the mould of Conrad Smith than Tana Umaga.
Yes.
NZ also need some smarts out wide, a la a Ben Smith.Who?
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@BerniesCorner weak leadership is very true.
Savea is a leader by action. He doesn’t strike me as a strategist. Scott and Jordie Barrett too. NZ need some thinkers in the team.
I think Proctor is a good shout. Feels like he is more in the mould of Conrad Smith than Tana Umaga.
NZ also need some smarts out wide, a la a Ben Smith.
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Leadership big problem we could of won that.
Proud of young forwards -
@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew come on Vic, that was a coach killer. Savea is one of NZ’s best players, but he has not been 2023 Savea this year. Too many switch off moments from him.
The coming apart all over the pitch in the last 20 minutes is too common to be anything but systemic.
@Victor-Meldrew Boks were applying a heap of pressure. I don’t think there are many teams that can withstand the Boks when they suffocate you. Ireland are probably the only ones right now.
ABs didn’t capitulate. They didn’t control either and Robertson would surely have learned a lot about the players over the last 2 weeks. Let’s see what the EOYT tour squad looks like. I think there will be a changing of the guard in the backs.
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@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Don’t lose your shit guys. ABs we’re better team today and if they taken opportunities would have won by 10. Farking annoying grasping defeat out of mouth of victory, but I’d rather be Razor than Rassie looking at that.
NOT A CHANCE
Rassie is grinning like a Cheshire Cat
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Don’t lose your shit guys. ABs we’re better team today and if they taken opportunities would have won by 10. Farking annoying grasping defeat out of mouth of victory, but I’d rather be Razor than Rassie looking at that.
NOT A CHANCE
Rassie is grinning like a Cheshire Cat
Of course, but when they do the review on Monday it will be clear that Boks were VERY lucky to steal that.
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@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Don’t lose your shit guys. ABs we’re better team today and if they taken opportunities would have won by 10. Farking annoying grasping defeat out of mouth of victory, but I’d rather be Razor than Rassie looking at that.
NOT A CHANCE
Rassie is grinning like a Cheshire Cat
Of course, but when they do the review on Monday it will be clear that Boks were VERY lucky to steal that.
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Don’t lose your shit guys. ABs we’re better team today and if they taken opportunities would have won by 10. Farking annoying grasping defeat out of mouth of victory, but I’d rather be Razor than Rassie looking at that.
NOT A CHANCE
Rassie is grinning like a Cheshire Cat
Of course, but when they do the review on Monday it will be clear that Boks were VERY lucky to steal that.
It's not luck.
The ABs lack the leadership, brains and frankly talent (some of these players need to be cast off) to close out games.
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@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Don’t lose your shit guys. ABs we’re better team today and if they taken opportunities would have won by 10. Farking annoying grasping defeat out of mouth of victory, but I’d rather be Razor than Rassie looking at that.
NOT A CHANCE
Rassie is grinning like a Cheshire Cat
Of course, but when they do the review on Monday it will be clear that Boks were VERY lucky to steal that.
It's not luck.
The ABs lack the leadership, brains and frankly talent (some of these players need to be cast off) to close out games.
@KiwiMurph said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Don’t lose your shit guys. ABs we’re better team today and if they taken opportunities would have won by 10. Farking annoying grasping defeat out of mouth of victory, but I’d rather be Razor than Rassie looking at that.
NOT A CHANCE
Rassie is grinning like a Cheshire Cat
Of course, but when they do the review on Monday it will be clear that Boks were VERY lucky to steal that.
It's not luck.
The ABs lack the leadership, brains and frankly talent (some of these players need to be cast off) to close out games.
Luck is where you are in a position to lose and can't control the outcome but don't because of unforced errors.
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@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Don’t lose your shit guys. ABs we’re better team today and if they taken opportunities would have won by 10. Farking annoying grasping defeat out of mouth of victory, but I’d rather be Razor than Rassie looking at that.
NOT A CHANCE
Rassie is grinning like a Cheshire Cat
Of course, but when they do the review on Monday it will be clear that Boks were VERY lucky to steal that.
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Don’t lose your shit guys. ABs we’re better team today and if they taken opportunities would have won by 10. Farking annoying grasping defeat out of mouth of victory, but I’d rather be Razor than Rassie looking at that.
NOT A CHANCE
Rassie is grinning like a Cheshire Cat
Of course, but when they do the review on Monday it will be clear that Boks were VERY lucky to steal that.
Lucky would have been an exceptional bounce of the ball
An intercepted pass against the run of play
A terrible decision from the referee
The Boks subbed better, with better players
They identified mismatches and upped the intensity both sides of the ball
They played the game in the right part of the pitch
They didn't panic and make terrible decisions
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@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew come on Vic, that was a coach killer. Savea is one of NZ’s best players, but he has not been 2023 Savea this year. Too many switch off moments from him.
The coming apart all over the pitch in the last 20 minutes is too common to be anything but systemic.
@Victor-Meldrew you do remember when extremely talented AB teams in the 90s and early 00s used to lose to the more cerebral Ozzies in a similar fashion, right?
Playing the Boks in SA will have exposed the coaches and players to something that used to be taken for granted. Pressure.
I think the ABs showed over the last 2 weeks that they have been working on unlocking the rush defence and defensively they have been better. Cut out the soft penalties, keep 15 on the park and work massively on the kicking game (exits!!!) and the forward platform is there to build upon.
There will be players that come through up front in next couple of years that will add value (Segner and Holland for me) to the existing group.
But it is the backs that need the revolution. McKenzie fluffed his lines today for me. He doesn’t exert control and it spreads to those around him. When the pressure is applied, you get a bit of panic. I wonder if McKenzie is better suited to FB.
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@KiwiMurph said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Don’t lose your shit guys. ABs we’re better team today and if they taken opportunities would have won by 10. Farking annoying grasping defeat out of mouth of victory, but I’d rather be Razor than Rassie looking at that.
NOT A CHANCE
Rassie is grinning like a Cheshire Cat
Of course, but when they do the review on Monday it will be clear that Boks were VERY lucky to steal that.
It's not luck.
The ABs lack the leadership, brains and frankly talent (some of these players need to be cast off) to close out games.
Luck is where you are in a position to lose and can't control the outcome but don't because of unforced errors.
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@KiwiMurph said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Don’t lose your shit guys. ABs we’re better team today and if they taken opportunities would have won by 10. Farking annoying grasping defeat out of mouth of victory, but I’d rather be Razor than Rassie looking at that.
NOT A CHANCE
Rassie is grinning like a Cheshire Cat
Of course, but when they do the review on Monday it will be clear that Boks were VERY lucky to steal that.
It's not luck.
The ABs lack the leadership, brains and frankly talent (some of these players need to be cast off) to close out games.
Luck is where you are in a position to lose and can't control the outcome but don't because of unforced errors.
They hold their nerve longer than the opposition. Hence they win.
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I watched at pub and no ability to watch replay, but it just may be that Willie Le Roux was MOTM for that yellow. If that ball goes to hand must have been a good chance of try. If clear enough then a penalty try.
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
I watched at pub and no ability to watch replay, but it just may be that Willie Le Roux was MOTM for that yellow. If that ball goes to hand must have been a good chance of try. If clear enough then a penalty try.
Willie was terrible today.
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@Victor-Meldrew you do remember when extremely talented AB teams in the 90s and early 00s used to lose to the more cerebral Ozzies in a similar fashion, right?
Playing the Boks in SA will have exposed the coaches and players to something that used to be taken for granted. Pressure.
I think the ABs showed over the last 2 weeks that they have been working on unlocking the rush defence and defensively they have been better. Cut out the soft penalties, keep 15 on the park and work massively on the kicking game (exits!!!) and the forward platform is there to build upon.
There will be players that come through up front in next couple of years that will add value (Segner and Holland for me) to the existing group.
But it is the backs that need the revolution. McKenzie fluffed his lines today for me. He doesn’t exert control and it spreads to those around him. When the pressure is applied, you get a bit of panic. I wonder if McKenzie is better suited to FB.
@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew you do remember when extremely talented AB teams in the 90s and early 00s used to lose to the more cerebral Ozzies in a similar fashion, right?
Playing the Boks in SA will have exposed the coaches and players to something that used to be taken for granted. Pressure.
I think the ABs showed over the last 2 weeks that they have been working on unlocking the rush defence and defensively they have been better. Cut out the soft penalties, keep 15 on the park and work massively on the kicking game (exits!!!) and the forward platform is there to build upon.
There will be players that come through up front in next couple of years that will add value (Segner and Holland for me) to the existing group.
But it is the backs that need the revolution. McKenzie fluffed his lines today for me. He doesn’t exert control and it spreads to those around him. When the pressure is applied, you get a bit of panic. I wonder if McKenzie is better suited to FB.
I have sympathy with this. After ball hit post from DMac miss a well drilled side would have scored. Boks were throwing themselves around, and suspect replay will show offences, but TJS was complete rubbish.
That Aussie side would have been in for all money. Heck, the 2022 Crusaders would have been! -
@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
I watched at pub and no ability to watch replay, but it just may be that Willie Le Roux was MOTM for that yellow. If that ball goes to hand must have been a good chance of try. If clear enough then a penalty try.
Willie was terrible today.
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It felt like they spent probably 25 minutes in our 22 while we had maybe 5 minutes in theirs.
Most of the kicks we missed at goal, resulted in us being stuck in our 22 for the next 15 minutes.
It's just a very odd game to review. We clearly showed we could get around the rush defense almost at will. We did it regularly, pretty much whenever we went wide we found space.
Yet somehow, by the end of the game we just didn't capitalize on those opportunities while giving them enough to finally take the game from us.
(ignoring the 9 points we left on the field from missed kicks).
I think we easily have the talent (Vaaii and Sititi were outplaying the entire Bok pack).
It also looks like our attack shape is really coming along now where we are back to making easy ground ball in hand and more importantly..we're doing it with very simple plays that are relatively low risk and match our players skill set.
But it seems like we just made the worst mistake at the most crucial moment each time we could have. Like mentally and composure wise we have just COLLAPSED 2 weeks in a row.
This is a very different situation to the Foster era where I felt our attack shape was genuinely non existent and horrible. One of the worst in top international rugby. Pretty much wasted 4 years of each backline players career.
So it's a very different situation. Feels much more fixable currently...but also seems like the leadership group have to take full responsibility here. It should be on them to help guide the team to be PEAKING at the end of the game at crunch time, not the complete opposite which is what has occurred the last fortnight.
