Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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What I want to know is - what changed in the second half? Thought we were ok in the first half, took the fight to them, but seemed to go back in our shells in the second half.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fuck the backs
A complete lack of penetration out wide - poor passing, positioning and shit running angles. One of the least effective attacking AB backline performances I've seen.
At least Ratima has tested the "all we need is quick ball to our 10 to slice them apart" hypothesis to destruction.
Said it more than once
Not lying deep enough
Sitting a metre or two further back now that you have the scrum half to pass the ball will give both DMac and JB the time to kick longer (neither of them have quick leg speed when they punt)
It will also create more doubt in the defenders because it will give DMac the time to read what's in front of him and fix the defences
Gives JB the chance to come up to battering ram speed
Putting ALB in at first five allows you to line up flatter. He's quicker off the mark forwards as well as laterally
Gives your back row the time to get to the breakdown and secure quick ruck ball. None of them are lightning
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fuck the backs
A complete lack of penetration out wide - poor passing, positioning and shit running angles. One of the least effective attacking AB backline performances I've seen.
At least Ratima has tested the "all we need is quick ball to our 10 to slice them apart" hypothesis to destruction.
Said it more than once
Not lying deep enough
Sitting a metre or two further back now that you have the scrum half to pass the ball will give both DMac and JB the time to kick longer (neither of them have quick leg speed when they punt)
It will also create more doubt in the defenders because it will give DMac the time to read what's in front of him and fix the defences
Gives JB the chance to come up to battering ram speed
Putting ALB in at first five allows you to line up flatter. He's quicker off the mark forwards as well as laterally
Gives your back row the time to get to the breakdown and secure quick ruck ball. None of them are lightning
How about putting in a 10 who excels in creating space for his outsides?
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I thought tight 5 did enough. Vaii one of the best across two tests and I think we have depth at prop and lock. Hooker still need a solid one two punch. Unfortunately out of Barrett’s and DMac we still do not have a reliable pressure kicker. Let’s give up on Iaone already, zero offload game and zero deception, should be wing or out, Proctor has to get his chance. Reece and Telea are not quality wings, Saffas have about half a dozen wings faster and more skillful than these two. Jordan has done nothing to suggest he is a test quality fullback. You have to look at Love and Perofeta.
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@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
So have we all come to terms with:
Razor is the most overrated coach in history
Fozzie (despite not being good) was no where near as shit as people thought
Jury is still out of Robertson, but I can't see him coming back from a loss in Sydney.
Ian Foster is a very decent man, but he often seemed out of his depth as AB coach. His sides put in some really lacklustre performances, but he was able to make them look at their best for the more important matches. That might have been because some of the older players like Whitelock, Retallick and Aaron Smith had certain standards drummed into them as part of the culture of the All Black teams they played for early their international careers. The odd performance based on intense effort and sharp execution didn't hide the lack of evolution or innovation.
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
That might have been because some of the older players like Whitelock, Retallick and Aaron Smith had certain standards drummed into them as part of the culture of the All Black teams they played for early their international careers.
Yet it's many of the senior players from roughly the same era - TJP, BB, etc - who aren't showing the leadership or the standards of old while overall the snr players from 2019 - 23 are busting a gut.
To Foster's credit, he clearly got his players firmly behind him when the chips were down and that's what seems to be dropping off. . That's what disappoints me more than anything.
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One big thing we've learned is that if Will Jordan plays Test Rugby it's on the Wing. He's an emergency Fullback at best at Test level. Surely we can all agree on that?
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
One big thing we've learned is that if Will Jordan plays Test Rugby it's on the Wing. He's an emergency Fullback at best at Test level. Surely we can all agree on that?
Excuse my French but yeah, no shit.
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So have we all come to terms with:
Razor is the most overrated coach in history
Fozzie (despite not being good) was no where near as shit as people thought
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
So have we all come to terms with:
Razor is the most overrated coach in history
Fozzie (despite not being good) was no where near as shit as people thought
Fozzie became a much better coach once he hand the team over to Joe Schmidt
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@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fuck the backs
A complete lack of penetration out wide - poor passing, positioning and shit running angles. One of the least effective attacking AB backline performances I've seen.
At least Ratima has tested the "all we need is quick ball to our 10 to slice them apart" hypothesis to destruction.
Said it more than once
Not lying deep enough
Sitting a metre or two further back now that you have the scrum half to pass the ball will give both DMac and JB the time to kick longer (neither of them have quick leg speed when they punt)
It will also create more doubt in the defenders because it will give DMac the time to read what's in front of him and fix the defences
Gives JB the chance to come up to battering ram speed
Putting ALB in at first five allows you to line up flatter. He's quicker off the mark forwards as well as laterally
Gives your back row the time to get to the breakdown and secure quick ruck ball. None of them are lightning
How about putting in a 10 who excels in creating space for his outsides?
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fuck the backs
A complete lack of penetration out wide - poor passing, positioning and shit running angles. One of the least effective attacking AB backline performances I've seen.
At least Ratima has tested the "all we need is quick ball to our 10 to slice them apart" hypothesis to destruction.
Said it more than once
Not lying deep enough
Sitting a metre or two further back now that you have the scrum half to pass the ball will give both DMac and JB the time to kick longer (neither of them have quick leg speed when they punt)
It will also create more doubt in the defenders because it will give DMac the time to read what's in front of him and fix the defences
Gives JB the chance to come up to battering ram speed
Putting ALB in at first five allows you to line up flatter. He's quicker off the mark forwards as well as laterally
Gives your back row the time to get to the breakdown and secure quick ruck ball. None of them are lightning
How about putting in a 10 who excels in creating space for his outsides?
Who the fuck is that in NZ rugby at the moment?
Also, one of DMac's key strengths for the Chiefs is his creating space for his outsides, what's different about the AB tactics that negates this from his game?
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@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fuck the backs
A complete lack of penetration out wide - poor passing, positioning and shit running angles. One of the least effective attacking AB backline performances I've seen.
At least Ratima has tested the "all we need is quick ball to our 10 to slice them apart" hypothesis to destruction.
Said it more than once
Not lying deep enough
Sitting a metre or two further back now that you have the scrum half to pass the ball will give both DMac and JB the time to kick longer (neither of them have quick leg speed when they punt)
It will also create more doubt in the defenders because it will give DMac the time to read what's in front of him and fix the defences
Gives JB the chance to come up to battering ram speed
Putting ALB in at first five allows you to line up flatter. He's quicker off the mark forwards as well as laterally
Gives your back row the time to get to the breakdown and secure quick ruck ball. None of them are lightning
How about putting in a 10 who excels in creating space for his outsides?
Who the fuck is that in NZ rugby at the moment?
Also, one of DMac's key strengths for the Chiefs is his creating space for his outsides, what's different about the AB tactics that negates this from his game?
@Nepia said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fuck the backs
A complete lack of penetration out wide - poor passing, positioning and shit running angles. One of the least effective attacking AB backline performances I've seen.
At least Ratima has tested the "all we need is quick ball to our 10 to slice them apart" hypothesis to destruction.
Said it more than once
Not lying deep enough
Sitting a metre or two further back now that you have the scrum half to pass the ball will give both DMac and JB the time to kick longer (neither of them have quick leg speed when they punt)
It will also create more doubt in the defenders because it will give DMac the time to read what's in front of him and fix the defences
Gives JB the chance to come up to battering ram speed
Putting ALB in at first five allows you to line up flatter. He's quicker off the mark forwards as well as laterally
Gives your back row the time to get to the breakdown and secure quick ruck ball. None of them are lightning
How about putting in a 10 who excels in creating space for his outsides?
Who the fuck is that in NZ rugby at the moment?
Also, one of DMac's key strengths for the Chiefs is his creating space for his outsides, what's different about the AB tactics that negates this from his game?
Less space and time in Test Match rugby
For solution, see above
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One big thing we've learned is that if Will Jordan plays Test Rugby it's on the Wing. He's an emergency Fullback at best at Test level. Surely we can all agree on that?
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
One big thing we've learned is that if Will Jordan plays Test Rugby it's on the Wing. He's an emergency Fullback at best at Test level. Surely we can all agree on that?
It was his first time starting in that position in a test? Surely you have to give him some more opportunities to develop there given that's where he's excelled for the Crusaders. Hopefully Love gets an opportunity at some point too (likely on end of year tour).
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@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fuck the backs
A complete lack of penetration out wide - poor passing, positioning and shit running angles. One of the least effective attacking AB backline performances I've seen.
At least Ratima has tested the "all we need is quick ball to our 10 to slice them apart" hypothesis to destruction.
Said it more than once
Not lying deep enough
Sitting a metre or two further back now that you have the scrum half to pass the ball will give both DMac and JB the time to kick longer (neither of them have quick leg speed when they punt)
It will also create more doubt in the defenders because it will give DMac the time to read what's in front of him and fix the defences
Gives JB the chance to come up to battering ram speed
Putting ALB in at first five allows you to line up flatter. He's quicker off the mark forwards as well as laterally
Gives your back row the time to get to the breakdown and secure quick ruck ball. None of them are lightning
How about putting in a 10 who excels in creating space for his outsides?
Who the fuck is that in NZ rugby at the moment?
Also, one of DMac's key strengths for the Chiefs is his creating space for his outsides, what's different about the AB tactics that negates this from his game?
@Nepia said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Also, one of DMac's key strengths for the Chiefs is his creating space for his outsides, what's different about the AB tactics that negates this from his game?
Playing between TJP and Jordie?
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@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
One big thing we've learned is that if Will Jordan plays Test Rugby it's on the Wing. He's an emergency Fullback at best at Test level. Surely we can all agree on that?
It was his first time starting in that position in a test? Surely you have to give him some more opportunities to develop there given that's where he's excelled for the Crusaders. Hopefully Love gets an opportunity at some point too (likely on end of year tour).
@Biorealism said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
One big thing we've learned is that if Will Jordan plays Test Rugby it's on the Wing. He's an emergency Fullback at best at Test level. Surely we can all agree on that?
It was his first time starting in that position in a test? Surely you have to give him some more opportunities to develop there given that's where he's excelled for the Crusaders. Hopefully Love gets an opportunity at some point too (likely on end of year tour).
Surely Will has played more than once at 15? I thought he had started more games at 15 than the wing?
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@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
First time we havnt scored a try in a test since the loss to Ireland in Dublin 2018?
That is hugely damning
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Every single All Black forward should be able to take every single All Black back out the back of the stadium and beat them with sticks.
The forwards were under the pump early but righted the ship and took over and the backs repeatedly fucked everyone else. Knock ons, shit options, penalties, turnovers, missed kicks, dog shit.
Sam Cane is a fucking test match warrior, and th3 slander on his name from salty Blues fans needs a written fucking apology. Who hits fluffybunnies and stops them? Who gets breakdown turnovers and pressure? Who gets his old legs in to wide channels? The warrior.
Taylor my MotM, just a massive game. Starting props remarkable to sort the scrum and dominate around the track. Barrett much better this week but that knock on was terrible. Vaai more passive in contact but good on the floor and the air.
Good start with ball in hand for Sititi. Same old shit from Savea.It was an ugly game full of errors and aimless play. South Africa are not yet comfortable in their new game plan. Willy Le Roux is the worst top level regular test player in the world.
TJP needs to shut his fucking hole. Learn a lesson.
Fuck the backs
@mariner4life You ain’t wrong. A few years ago the ABs took Matt Giteau to the glue factory. It’s embarrassing that they’re letting this guy steal a living.
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@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
One big thing we've learned is that if Will Jordan plays Test Rugby it's on the Wing. He's an emergency Fullback at best at Test level. Surely we can all agree on that?
It was his first time starting in that position in a test? Surely you have to give him some more opportunities to develop there given that's where he's excelled for the Crusaders. Hopefully Love gets an opportunity at some point too (likely on end of year tour).
@Biorealism said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
One big thing we've learned is that if Will Jordan plays Test Rugby it's on the Wing. He's an emergency Fullback at best at Test level. Surely we can all agree on that?
It was his first time starting in that position in a test? Surely you have to give him some more opportunities to develop there given that's where he's excelled for the Crusaders. Hopefully Love gets an opportunity at some point too (likely on end of year tour).
He's Lelia Masaga in a crusaders jersey.
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Some late night thoughts:
Another tense, epic test match.
Small margins, grateful it went the Boks way.Worrying:
Bok set pieces were not an asset like they have been recently.
Easy to to point at the Boks, but actually huge respect for the opposition who nullified / beat us here.
Lineouts: my verdict is the AB's were dominant.
Scrums: Boks marginally ahead, but not enough to make a game impact.
Mauls: No advantage either way, but importantly, this Bok weapon of the past was fully neutralized.
Rush defence: unlocked (easily) a good few times. Great scramble D saved a lot of blushes.Obviously delighted the Boks won.
But equally realistic to know that this could have been 1-1 or even 0-2.
Long live the rivalry. -
Some late night thoughts:
Another tense, epic test match.
Small margins, grateful it went the Boks way.Worrying:
Bok set pieces were not an asset like they have been recently.
Easy to to point at the Boks, but actually huge respect for the opposition who nullified / beat us here.
Lineouts: my verdict is the AB's were dominant.
Scrums: Boks marginally ahead, but not enough to make a game impact.
Mauls: No advantage either way, but importantly, this Bok weapon of the past was fully neutralized.
Rush defence: unlocked (easily) a good few times. Great scramble D saved a lot of blushes.Obviously delighted the Boks won.
But equally realistic to know that this could have been 1-1 or even 0-2.
Long live the rivalry. -
@Billy-Webb Rassie has said the same thing. Are you he?
@stodders
Really?
I suddenly feel like I know more than I actually do...
(it will pass). -
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fuck the backs
A complete lack of penetration out wide - poor passing, positioning and shit running angles. One of the least effective attacking AB backline performances I've seen.
At least Ratima has tested the "all we need is quick ball to our 10 to slice them apart" hypothesis to destruction.
Said it more than once
Not lying deep enough
Sitting a metre or two further back now that you have the scrum half to pass the ball will give both DMac and JB the time to kick longer (neither of them have quick leg speed when they punt)
It will also create more doubt in the defenders because it will give DMac the time to read what's in front of him and fix the defences
Gives JB the chance to come up to battering ram speed
Putting ALB in at first five allows you to line up flatter. He's quicker off the mark forwards as well as laterally
Gives your back row the time to get to the breakdown and secure quick ruck ball. None of them are lightning
How about putting in a 10 who excels in creating space for his outsides?
Who the fuck is that in NZ rugby at the moment?
Also, one of DMac's key strengths for the Chiefs is his creating space for his outsides, what's different about the AB tactics that negates this from his game?
@Nepia And I would throw Rieko into that as well
TJ slower ball then a 12 and 13 only looking for contact.
If they looked up Dmac is one of the best at putting guys into space but they have to want it- there is times when a crash ball is necessary but not every time - vary the lines make the defense panic and have to adjust. -
Is Scott Robertson the worst All Blacks coach of all time?
