Springboks vs All Blacks 2
-
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fuck the backs
A complete lack of penetration out wide - poor passing, positioning and shit running angles. One of the least effective attacking AB backline performances I've seen.
At least Ratima has tested the "all we need is quick ball to our 10 to slice them apart" hypothesis to destruction.
Said it more than once
Not lying deep enough
Sitting a metre or two further back now that you have the scrum half to pass the ball will give both DMac and JB the time to kick longer (neither of them have quick leg speed when they punt)
It will also create more doubt in the defenders because it will give DMac the time to read what's in front of him and fix the defences
Gives JB the chance to come up to battering ram speed
Putting ALB in at first five allows you to line up flatter. He's quicker off the mark forwards as well as laterally
Gives your back row the time to get to the breakdown and secure quick ruck ball. None of them are lightning
How about putting in a 10 who excels in creating space for his outsides?
Who the fuck is that in NZ rugby at the moment?
Also, one of DMac's key strengths for the Chiefs is his creating space for his outsides, what's different about the AB tactics that negates this from his game?
@Nepia said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Also, one of DMac's key strengths for the Chiefs is his creating space for his outsides, what's different about the AB tactics that negates this from his game?
Playing between TJP and Jordie?
-
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
One big thing we've learned is that if Will Jordan plays Test Rugby it's on the Wing. He's an emergency Fullback at best at Test level. Surely we can all agree on that?
It was his first time starting in that position in a test? Surely you have to give him some more opportunities to develop there given that's where he's excelled for the Crusaders. Hopefully Love gets an opportunity at some point too (likely on end of year tour).
@Biorealism said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
One big thing we've learned is that if Will Jordan plays Test Rugby it's on the Wing. He's an emergency Fullback at best at Test level. Surely we can all agree on that?
It was his first time starting in that position in a test? Surely you have to give him some more opportunities to develop there given that's where he's excelled for the Crusaders. Hopefully Love gets an opportunity at some point too (likely on end of year tour).
Surely Will has played more than once at 15? I thought he had started more games at 15 than the wing?
-
@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
First time we havnt scored a try in a test since the loss to Ireland in Dublin 2018?
That is hugely damning
-
Every single All Black forward should be able to take every single All Black back out the back of the stadium and beat them with sticks.
The forwards were under the pump early but righted the ship and took over and the backs repeatedly fucked everyone else. Knock ons, shit options, penalties, turnovers, missed kicks, dog shit.
Sam Cane is a fucking test match warrior, and th3 slander on his name from salty Blues fans needs a written fucking apology. Who hits fluffybunnies and stops them? Who gets breakdown turnovers and pressure? Who gets his old legs in to wide channels? The warrior.
Taylor my MotM, just a massive game. Starting props remarkable to sort the scrum and dominate around the track. Barrett much better this week but that knock on was terrible. Vaai more passive in contact but good on the floor and the air.
Good start with ball in hand for Sititi. Same old shit from Savea.It was an ugly game full of errors and aimless play. South Africa are not yet comfortable in their new game plan. Willy Le Roux is the worst top level regular test player in the world.
TJP needs to shut his fucking hole. Learn a lesson.
Fuck the backs
@mariner4life You ain’t wrong. A few years ago the ABs took Matt Giteau to the glue factory. It’s embarrassing that they’re letting this guy steal a living.
-
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
One big thing we've learned is that if Will Jordan plays Test Rugby it's on the Wing. He's an emergency Fullback at best at Test level. Surely we can all agree on that?
It was his first time starting in that position in a test? Surely you have to give him some more opportunities to develop there given that's where he's excelled for the Crusaders. Hopefully Love gets an opportunity at some point too (likely on end of year tour).
@Biorealism said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@sparky said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
One big thing we've learned is that if Will Jordan plays Test Rugby it's on the Wing. He's an emergency Fullback at best at Test level. Surely we can all agree on that?
It was his first time starting in that position in a test? Surely you have to give him some more opportunities to develop there given that's where he's excelled for the Crusaders. Hopefully Love gets an opportunity at some point too (likely on end of year tour).
He's Lelia Masaga in a crusaders jersey.
-
Some late night thoughts:
Another tense, epic test match.
Small margins, grateful it went the Boks way.Worrying:
Bok set pieces were not an asset like they have been recently.
Easy to to point at the Boks, but actually huge respect for the opposition who nullified / beat us here.
Lineouts: my verdict is the AB's were dominant.
Scrums: Boks marginally ahead, but not enough to make a game impact.
Mauls: No advantage either way, but importantly, this Bok weapon of the past was fully neutralized.
Rush defence: unlocked (easily) a good few times. Great scramble D saved a lot of blushes.Obviously delighted the Boks won.
But equally realistic to know that this could have been 1-1 or even 0-2.
Long live the rivalry. -
Some late night thoughts:
Another tense, epic test match.
Small margins, grateful it went the Boks way.Worrying:
Bok set pieces were not an asset like they have been recently.
Easy to to point at the Boks, but actually huge respect for the opposition who nullified / beat us here.
Lineouts: my verdict is the AB's were dominant.
Scrums: Boks marginally ahead, but not enough to make a game impact.
Mauls: No advantage either way, but importantly, this Bok weapon of the past was fully neutralized.
Rush defence: unlocked (easily) a good few times. Great scramble D saved a lot of blushes.Obviously delighted the Boks won.
But equally realistic to know that this could have been 1-1 or even 0-2.
Long live the rivalry. -
@Billy-Webb Rassie has said the same thing. Are you he?
@stodders
Really?
I suddenly feel like I know more than I actually do...
(it will pass). -
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fuck the backs
A complete lack of penetration out wide - poor passing, positioning and shit running angles. One of the least effective attacking AB backline performances I've seen.
At least Ratima has tested the "all we need is quick ball to our 10 to slice them apart" hypothesis to destruction.
Said it more than once
Not lying deep enough
Sitting a metre or two further back now that you have the scrum half to pass the ball will give both DMac and JB the time to kick longer (neither of them have quick leg speed when they punt)
It will also create more doubt in the defenders because it will give DMac the time to read what's in front of him and fix the defences
Gives JB the chance to come up to battering ram speed
Putting ALB in at first five allows you to line up flatter. He's quicker off the mark forwards as well as laterally
Gives your back row the time to get to the breakdown and secure quick ruck ball. None of them are lightning
How about putting in a 10 who excels in creating space for his outsides?
Who the fuck is that in NZ rugby at the moment?
Also, one of DMac's key strengths for the Chiefs is his creating space for his outsides, what's different about the AB tactics that negates this from his game?
@Nepia And I would throw Rieko into that as well
TJ slower ball then a 12 and 13 only looking for contact.
If they looked up Dmac is one of the best at putting guys into space but they have to want it- there is times when a crash ball is necessary but not every time - vary the lines make the defense panic and have to adjust. -
Is Scott Robertson the worst All Blacks coach of all time?
-
Is Scott Robertson the worst All Blacks coach of all time?
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Is Scott Robertson the worst All Blacks coach of all time?
Dunno, but you saying that after he has been in charge for 2 months, has you in the running for worst AB supporter of all time.
-
@kpkanz “razor wins each one of them” based on fucking what? He lost to Argentina at home?
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kpkanz “razor wins each one of them” based on fucking what? He lost to Argentina at home?
I'm sure the likes of Ireland and Argentina would both admit that they felt a lot more confident playing the All Blacks following their historic wins. Something about getting that monkey off the backs. Those historic defeats (which, Foster is only responsible for Argentina, of course) have seismically affected NZ's mental advantage over the opposition.
-
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kpkanz “razor wins each one of them” based on fucking what? He lost to Argentina at home?
I'm sure the likes of Ireland and Argentina would both admit that they felt a lot more confident playing the All Blacks following their historic wins. Something about getting that monkey off the backs. Those historic defeats (which, Foster is only responsible for Argentina, of course) have seismically affected NZ's mental advantage over the opposition.
-
@kpkanz “razor wins each one of them” based on fucking what? He lost to Argentina at home?
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kpkanz “razor wins each one of them” based on fucking what? He lost to Argentina at home?
Because I'm comparing the rugby we're playing under Razor to the rugby we played under Foster??
Which was the worst I have ever seen the All Blacks play in decades of watching?Our Argentina loss this year we were up 20-8 and threw the game away where we basically handed 2 free tries and collapsed. A game we blew.
Do you not remember the Argentina losses under Foster?
In those games we were genuinely dominated from minute 1 to minute 80. At NO point in those entire games did we look like winning.That has not happened once in Razors first year. All 3 losses we had a legitimate chance for victory, 2 of them where we had no right to lose from the position we were in.
So yes this is magnitudes better than Fosters first 2 years before Schmidt/Ryan joined.
-
Sorry but you can't just gloss over conceding a record number of points at home to fucking Argentina. That was one of the worst matches I can remember as an AB supporter. The way we just crumpled was embarrassing stuff. Razor has a lot to learn at test level - will he get there? We all hope so buy the jury is out still.
-
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kpkanz “razor wins each one of them” based on fucking what? He lost to Argentina at home?
Because I'm comparing the rugby we're playing under Razor to the rugby we played under Foster??
Which was the worst I have ever seen the All Blacks play in decades of watching?Our Argentina loss this year we were up 20-8 and threw the game away where we basically handed 2 free tries and collapsed. A game we blew.
Do you not remember the Argentina losses under Foster?
In those games we were genuinely dominated from minute 1 to minute 80. At NO point in those entire games did we look like winning.That has not happened once in Razors first year. All 3 losses we had a legitimate chance for victory, 2 of them where we had no right to lose from the position we were in.
So yes this is magnitudes better than Fosters first 2 years before Schmidt/Ryan joined.
@kpkanz said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
So yes this is magnitudes better than Fosters first 2 years before Schmidt/Ryan joined.
If you were a wallaby fan, you'd be arguing for being up 20-3 being a good thing, before shipping a record number of points in the last quarter against the Pumas (who have quietly over-achieved this year by the way).
Reality is we should win those games. I think the leadership and mindset isn't there - the group of Scott/Ardie/Jordie is fine, but clearly not getting the team mindset int he right place.
How much do we miss SWhitelock? Massively!
-
On the game, it's the same problems as the previous week really, some of which are problems created by squad selection which falls squarely on Razor's shoulders.
Our tight 5 is very good, and can match it with any other team. Really happy with the way we have developed there, particularly the locks which looks a position of strength for us now and will be bolstered again when Holland becomes available.
Our loosies are a big weakness still, this has been the most disappointing area by far, and Razor is the man in charge of this space. Cane did was Cane does, but is older, slower, and less effective than he was in the past. Not bad, but nothing standout either. Sititi played well for an 8, but played that game at 6 meaning we didn't have a 6 on the park doing the hard yards on defense and at ruck time. Ardie continued his form slump and was mostly ineffective. Just to play my broken record once more, a trio of Arkia-Cane-Sititi would be potent as fuck but will never happen under this coaching team which is insane to me.
On the backs, we seriously lacked any threat out wide which made defending us a lot easier. We looked better when Rieko was moved to wing as we actually had a threat out wide after that. Reece and Telea are great SR players but are not really test standard, both are a huge step down from Jordan and Clarke on the wings. Moving Jordan to fullback was dumb when he has been so effective on the wing. At fullback we're going to need to give Perofeta and Love game time there as the replacements for Beauden who is obviously in the twilight of his career and has been too inconsistent recently.
-
ok, watched the replay
agree with a lot of stuff re individuals, old guys looked bad, young guys looked good
a couple of things that really stood out about HOW were still playing...still tackling too high too often...yes, if you know your part of a two man tackle then try and wrap up the ball....otherwise go low and fold a fluffybunny....we're standing up and if we dont get penalised its allowing their support to get there and drive a couple of meters....its weak
on attack...we're so flat footed...i lost count of how may times guys would get the ball standing on their heels...do a little two step...then fall into contact....hit the ball at fucking pace
structure falls apart after a couple of phases and or broken play....club rugby teams try and get back in shape after broken play, work to an edge, re group...but we dont seem to even try...broken play...dont break the line...kick
really seems like basics we're either not coaching or the players are not implementing
