All Blacks vs Wallabies I
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
Adding further to this point he is only in the All Blacks due to Perofeta getting injured.
We only have 8 more tests, we should be giving time to actual long term ABs that we need to gain experience, not people that are literally injury cover temporarily.
Plummer will be gone immediately when Perofeta is back from injury.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
Adding further to this point he is only in the All Blacks due to Perofeta getting injured.
We only have 8 more tests, we should be giving time to actual long term ABs that we need to gain experience, not people that are literally injury cover temporarily.
Plummer will be gone immediately when Perofeta is back from injury.
I agree that's what they will do.
I'm saying in my opinion what they should do is keep Plummer as he showed enough during the business end of Super to deserve a shot.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
Hmmm unsure about that. Perofeta missed an easy penalty against the Canes which cost us top spot in the end (didn't matter thankfully), then had possibly the worst game you'll ever see from a 10 against the Tahs which nearly cost us the game and then got injured after the Crusders game the next week.
I'd almost say that Plummer moving to 10 was a blessing in disguise for the Blues 2024 campaign.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
Perofeta was the best 10, and probably the best fullback at the Blues.
The gap between Perofeta and Forbes at fullback was a bigger gap in experience than Perofeta and Plummer at 10 since Plummer has 5 years at the Blues.
If Sullivan didn't get injured, he would have been fullback and Perofeta the starting 10.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
Perofeta was the best 10, and probably the best fullback at the Blues.
The gap between Perofeta and Forbes at fullback was a bigger gap in experience than Perofeta and Plummer at 10 since Plummer has 5 years at the Blues.
If Sullivan didn't get injured, he would have been fullback and Perofeta the starting 10.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
Perofeta was the best 10, and probably the best fullback at the Blues.
The gap between Perofeta and Forbes at fullback was a bigger gap in experience than Perofeta and Plummer at 10 since Plummer has 5 years at the Blues.
If Sullivan didn't get injured, he would have been fullback and Perofeta the starting 10.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because that's not how I saw it. Plummer was no chancer who got a free ride at 10. He made a big contribution to the Blues winning the title, including lights out goalkicking
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
Perofeta was the best 10, and probably the best fullback at the Blues.
The gap between Perofeta and Forbes at fullback was a bigger gap in experience than Perofeta and Plummer at 10 since Plummer has 5 years at the Blues.
If Sullivan didn't get injured, he would have been fullback and Perofeta the starting 10.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
Perofeta was the best 10, and probably the best fullback at the Blues.
The gap between Perofeta and Forbes at fullback was a bigger gap in experience than Perofeta and Plummer at 10 since Plummer has 5 years at the Blues.
If Sullivan didn't get injured, he would have been fullback and Perofeta the starting 10.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because that's not how I saw it. Plummer was no chancer who got a free ride at 10. He made a big contribution to the Blues winning the title, including lights out goalkicking
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
Perofeta was the best 10, and probably the best fullback at the Blues.
The gap between Perofeta and Forbes at fullback was a bigger gap in experience than Perofeta and Plummer at 10 since Plummer has 5 years at the Blues.
If Sullivan didn't get injured, he would have been fullback and Perofeta the starting 10.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because that's not how I saw it. Plummer was no chancer who got a free ride at 10. He made a big contribution to the Blues winning the title, including lights out goalkicking
Fair, we just see the season differently.
It does seem likely Plummer will be dropped once Perofeta is back (perhaps an assumption).
So feels difficult to justify giving a full test to someone who may just be temporary injury cover when we need to grow the first choicers combination and experience together.
That's my perspective on it
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
Perofeta was the best 10, and probably the best fullback at the Blues.
The gap between Perofeta and Forbes at fullback was a bigger gap in experience than Perofeta and Plummer at 10 since Plummer has 5 years at the Blues.
If Sullivan didn't get injured, he would have been fullback and Perofeta the starting 10.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because that's not how I saw it. Plummer was no chancer who got a free ride at 10. He made a big contribution to the Blues winning the title, including lights out goalkicking
Fair, we just see the season differently.
It does seem likely Plummer will be dropped once Perofeta is back (perhaps an assumption).
So feels difficult to justify giving a full test to someone who may just be temporary injury cover when we need to grow the first choicers combination and experience together.
That's my perspective on it
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
Perofeta was the best 10, and probably the best fullback at the Blues.
The gap between Perofeta and Forbes at fullback was a bigger gap in experience than Perofeta and Plummer at 10 since Plummer has 5 years at the Blues.
If Sullivan didn't get injured, he would have been fullback and Perofeta the starting 10.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because that's not how I saw it. Plummer was no chancer who got a free ride at 10. He made a big contribution to the Blues winning the title, including lights out goalkicking
Fair, we just see the season differently.
It does seem likely Plummer will be dropped once Perofeta is back (perhaps an assumption).
So feels difficult to justify giving a full test to someone who may just be temporary injury cover when we need to grow the first choicers combination and experience together.
That's my perspective on it
The major philosophical difference is how we see Perofeta. I don't see him as being good enough for the ABs as a specialist 10 or 15, that's just my opinion. He could make it as a utility, but there are others who can also compete for that spot who have upside as well. I don't know if Plummer can make the jump. But based on his SR form I'd take a punt on him because he offers something different, I see him in more of a traditional AB 10 mold. And if he fails at least we won't die wondering
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
Adding further to this point he is only in the All Blacks due to Perofeta getting injured.
We only have 8 more tests, we should be giving time to actual long term ABs that we need to gain experience, not people that are literally injury cover temporarily.
Plummer will be gone immediately when Perofeta is back from injury.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
Adding further to this point he is only in the All Blacks due to Perofeta getting injured.
We only have 8 more tests, we should be giving time to actual long term ABs that we need to gain experience, not people that are literally injury cover temporarily.
Plummer will be gone immediately when Perofeta is back from injury.
So Perofeta gets injured a lot and Plummer is tougher so more suitable for test footy. Got it. Thanks!
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Yeah it will be great to look good and retain the Bledisloe but will ultimately be a false dawn - we know we can beat up OZ so what. The policy should be to expose some players and give them experience but somehow I expect the same 23 bar 1 or 2 to roll out.
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id say we will probably come out and pump the Wallabies and look ok doing it and not get really tested until the NH games, so we are probably not going to find out too much
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
id say we will probably come out and pump the Wallabies and look ok doing it and not get really tested until the NH games, so we are probably not going to find out too much
Even after they got fucking humped, I still have some trepidations that we're entirely capable of playing down to their level and making it a cripple fight.
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trashing aussie also feels slightly hollow, all the talk about super rugby not being good enough anymore...and how rough rugby in aussie is....we need them to be strong so thrashing them doesnt help much
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trashing aussie also feels slightly hollow, all the talk about super rugby not being good enough anymore...and how rough rugby in aussie is....we need them to be strong so thrashing them doesnt help much
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
trashing aussie also feels slightly hollow, all the talk about super rugby not being good enough anymore...and how rough rugby in aussie is....we need them to be strong so thrashing them doesnt help much
Honest opinion: the move by NZ and RSA to resume tours is basically the death knell for Super Rugby.
And it has served its purpose. It got professionalism going and stood up a product that was the envy of the rugby world.
However, I think we can all agree Fox paid overs for the game out of the blocks, and the sport is experiencing withdrawal symptoms, particularly here.
Time to do something different, and for Australia that probably means getting through the next TV deal and then using some RWC profits to develop a national club competition. It will, necessarily, be focused on Sydney, Brisbane, and Canberra - at least to begin with.
Between now and then, we'll need to have realigned our pathways to ensure clubs sit ahead of schools, or we condemn ourselves to terminal decline. Even if that means little clubs like mine get absorbed into Premier Clubs, for the good of the game it is the price to pay
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
trashing aussie also feels slightly hollow, all the talk about super rugby not being good enough anymore...and how rough rugby in aussie is....we need them to be strong so thrashing them doesnt help much
Honest opinion: the move by NZ and RSA to resume tours is basically the death knell for Super Rugby.
And it has served its purpose. It got professionalism going and stood up a product that was the envy of the rugby world.
However, I think we can all agree Fox paid overs for the game out of the blocks, and the sport is experiencing withdrawal symptoms, particularly here.
Time to do something different, and for Australia that probably means getting through the next TV deal and then using some RWC profits to develop a national club competition. It will, necessarily, be focused on Sydney, Brisbane, and Canberra - at least to begin with.
Between now and then, we'll need to have realigned our pathways to ensure clubs sit ahead of schools, or we condemn ourselves to terminal decline. Even if that means little clubs like mine get absorbed into Premier Clubs, for the good of the game it is the price to pay
@NTA agreed
i dont think we can keep concentrating so much on the international game...and then complaining the franchise / club game is weak
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@booboo Plummer is 26 and only really in his second season of regular game time. He's hardly over the hill. He also led the champion team around the park excellently.
The Plummer hype needs to die down.
I mean the guys got 75 caps at super level. He's been around for 6 seasons now with plenty of opportunity to make an impression on the coaches yet hasnt been able to nail the starting 10 position at his own club.
For the vast majority of his Blues career when he wasnt behind Beauden, he was still behind Perofeta and Otere Black ffs. The only starts he got were when both of them were injured.
The Blues in 2021 won Super Rugby Trans Ta$man with Otere Black, with Plummer sitting on the bench.
Even this year in his breakthrough year, Plummer wasn't the preferred 10.
Perofeta started at 10 for the first 6 rounds until he got injured.The Blues record at that time, with Perofeta leading before injury was 5-1 (only losing to the top of the table Hurricanes).
Only once Perofeta got injured did Plummer get the starting 10 spot. Perofeta only came back 2 weeks before the knockouts.
A week after coming back he was immediately made starting 10 again.
The only reason he didn't continue as starting 10 for the rest of the playoffs is because Sullivan (as the only other experienced fullback) got injured, Perofeta was then moved to fullback to fill the spot and Plummer brought back into 10 for the rest of the playoffs.
So I find it difficult to imagine investing time in a guy for the AB's starting 10 spot when he wasn't even the preferred 10 at his own super club.
Even the coaches who spend the most time with him preferred other players we already have access to.
No one is pretending he's the second coming of DC, merely that since he's in the squad we should give him some time to see what a bigger body, that's displayed defensive capability, an ability to make good decisions keeping the ball in front of his forwards and giving his backline time and space could do for the team.
Because let's be honest here, McKenzie was really fucking average on the weekend. And good results come from competition for spots.
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Because let's be honest here, McKenzie was really fucking average on the weekend. And good results come from competition for spots.
What did he do wrong? Or at least what did he do average? Genuine question.
I did not get negative vibes watching live.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Because let's be honest here, McKenzie was really fucking average on the weekend. And good results come from competition for spots.
What did he do wrong? Or at least what did he do average? Genuine question.
I did not get negative vibes watching live.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Because let's be honest here, McKenzie was really fucking average on the weekend. And good results come from competition for spots.
What did he do wrong? Or at least what did he do average? Genuine question.
I did not get negative vibes watching live.
IMO he consistently placed others under pressure through hesitation or poor execution. The two times I considered he was good were in the first half but those moments were started by other players. His much vaunted ability to "unlock defences", with the arguably better service from Ratima didn't eventuate.
I haven't seen an All Black backline play that consistently poorly in a long time. Not all his fault, but as the 10 he bears some responsibility.
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@booboo Plummer is 26 and only really in his second season of regular game time. He's hardly over the hill. He also led the champion team around the park excellently.
The Plummer hype needs to die down.
I mean the guys got 75 caps at super level. He's been around for 6 seasons now with plenty of opportunity to make an impression on the coaches yet hasnt been able to nail the starting 10 position at his own club.
For the vast majority of his Blues career when he wasnt behind Beauden, he was still behind Perofeta and Otere Black ffs. The only starts he got were when both of them were injured.
The Blues in 2021 won Super Rugby Trans Ta$man with Otere Black, with Plummer sitting on the bench.
Even this year in his breakthrough year, Plummer wasn't the preferred 10.
Perofeta started at 10 for the first 6 rounds until he got injured.The Blues record at that time, with Perofeta leading before injury was 5-1 (only losing to the top of the table Hurricanes).
Only once Perofeta got injured did Plummer get the starting 10 spot. Perofeta only came back 2 weeks before the knockouts.
A week after coming back he was immediately made starting 10 again.
The only reason he didn't continue as starting 10 for the rest of the playoffs is because Sullivan (as the only other experienced fullback) got injured, Perofeta was then moved to fullback to fill the spot and Plummer brought back into 10 for the rest of the playoffs.
So I find it difficult to imagine investing time in a guy for the AB's starting 10 spot when he wasn't even the preferred 10 at his own super club.
Even the coaches who spend the most time with him preferred other players we already have access to.
No one is pretending he's the second coming of DC, merely that since he's in the squad we should give him some time to see what a bigger body, that's displayed defensive capability, an ability to make good decisions keeping the ball in front of his forwards and giving his backline time and space could do for the team.
Because let's be honest here, McKenzie was really fucking average on the weekend. And good results come from competition for spots.
Exactly. I don't know why some posters seem to think this is a zero sum game. Just because we should try Plummer doesn't mean we need to bin DMac to do it
Sure. But isn't he just a stop gap until Perofeta comes back?
If our aim is to give players experience in positions we are planning long term, is there any point doing so with Plummer if he's just out of the squad once Perofeta is back?
In which case, isn't it just a better use of the limited tests we have a year to give our actual starting and long term 10 more and more experience as he doesn't even have 10 caps starting at this level in that position?
I have no faith in Perofeta. He couldn't even get past Plummer at the Blues. Until proven otherwise I don't see him as anything more than a utility, and I think there is greater potential in a few others
Yeah Perofeta is not the answer, I'm hoping the only reason he made the ABs was because of MacDonald. Let's hope we don't see him again.
I wouldn't have picked Perofeta for the squad but he played really well against England in both games. He showed far more composure than what we've seen from BB and Jordan at fullback and made things happen without resorting to low percentage plays.
On that basis he deserves to be higher in the pecking order than the unproven Love. Perofeta is also a better defender than Love.
