All Blacks 2024
-
@kpkanz said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fozzie never lost a Rugby Championship
Foster only had ONE actual full RC with home and away.
2020 - no SA
2021 - no away games to SA or ARG because of COVID
2022 - the only proper RC, we had two games in SA and the 2nd test win was the decider for the entire RC, a wins a win but that match was an anomaly, the players going all out in a freak match knowing full and well that a loss would mean their coach being Sacked
2023 - shortened RC, only 3 games, and 2 of them against SA/AUS we were at home.
Razor with the current team wins each one of these.
The Foster revisionism is truly amazing.
Says the bloke coming up with an alternative universe to his liking.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
The Foster revisionism is truly amazing.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
The Foster revisionism is truly amazing.Says the bloke coming up with an alternative universe to his liking.
Every time I see somebody claiming "revisionism" - I think... "ahhh, here we go - this is going to be some classic historical fiction".
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'm not convinced that Cane is appreciably slower than Papali'i. He gets into the wide channels pretty damn well based on the last two outings. He's practically light speed compared to the glacial Blackadder.
You can play either of them but that's not where the issue lies.
Right, so now EB is not only ineffective but he doesn't actually get anywhere.
Despite all the stats showing him making a shitload of tackles and carries - stats which are, y'know, kinda hard to rack up without being where the ball is.
Did you watch him ponderously cover and get burned? Or where a front rower left him behind chasing a kick in support? He's fucking slow. Like gumboots in mud slow.
His lack of pace is indefensible.
Well fuck me, that reflects pretty badly on all these players who are faster than him. I guess they must be using their extra pace to get out of the way so they don't have to make tackles or carries.
Probably busy using their speed to get onside after he makes his passive tackles...
The problem with using statistics without qualifiers is neatly summed up by asking chatgpt to rank players based on the stats available at https://super.rugby/therugbychampionship/fixtures/
Here’s a ranking of New Zealand players based on both attack and defense statistics, combining key attack metrics (meters gained, carries) and defense metrics (tackles made, tackle completion):
Combined Ranking (Attack and Defense):
Savea- Attack: 44 meters, 18 carries, 5 defenders beaten, 2 clean breaks, 5 points
- Defense: 12 tackles, 100% tackle completion
Jordan
- Attack: 84 meters, 9 carries, 3 defenders beaten, 2 clean breaks, 10 points
- Defense: 4 tackles, 66.67% tackle completion
Blackadder
- Attack: 14 meters, 7 carries, 7 passes, 1 offload
- Defense: 20 tackles, 86.96% tackle completion, 2 turnovers won
Barrett (Beauden)
- Attack: 36 meters, 7 carries, 4 defenders beaten, 1 clean break, 2 try assists
- Defense: 8 tackles, 80% tackle completion
Now does that correlate with what people recall from the first game against South Africa..?
@antipodean that looks more like the problem with using chatGPT to interpret stats to me.
I know what I'm seeing - and that's a guy with a big work-rate making a heap of tackles and carries. That's backed up by the stats.
What you are seeing is an alleged 'ineffective' which can't really be backed up with any data publicly available, and anecdote of certain game situations where he's looked slow which frankly is worthless.
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
Secondly, I'm quicker than Jerry Collins, but I wouldn't have been a great selection ahead of him on the flank.
Some of rugby is a short sprint game, but loose forward play is more like a bronco test. EB won't do great at the former, but will do well at the latter. -
@antipodean that looks more like the problem with using chatGPT to interpret stats to me.
I know what I'm seeing - and that's a guy with a big work-rate making a heap of tackles and carries. That's backed up by the stats.
What you are seeing is an alleged 'ineffective' which can't really be backed up with any data publicly available, and anecdote of certain game situations where he's looked slow which frankly is worthless.
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
Secondly, I'm quicker than Jerry Collins, but I wouldn't have been a great selection ahead of him on the flank.
Some of rugby is a short sprint game, but loose forward play is more like a bronco test. EB won't do great at the former, but will do well at the latter.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
nah, he's just slow
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
nah, he's just slow
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
nah, he's just slow
It's not like he's playing on the wing bro.
-
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
nah, he's just slow
It's not like he's playing on the wing bro.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
nah, he's just slow
It's not like he's playing on the wing bro.
Look, there's a lot to like with him, but he's very limited. And before he got picked my mate was talking about his lack of speed. For a loosie, he's slow - and that goes to a bunch of thigns including carrying. For a loose trio, Savea's got some wheels, but otherwise you're scratching around. It's unbalanced and kind of weird as a trio.
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
nah, he's just slow
It's not like he's playing on the wing bro.
Look, there's a lot to like with him, but he's very limited. And before he got picked my mate was talking about his lack of speed. For a loosie, he's slow - and that goes to a bunch of thigns including carrying. For a loose trio, Savea's got some wheels, but otherwise you're scratching around. It's unbalanced and kind of weird as a trio.
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
nah, he's just slow
It's not like he's playing on the wing bro.
Look, there's a lot to like with him, but he's very limited. And before he got picked my mate was talking about his lack of speed. For a loosie, he's slow - and that goes to a bunch of thigns including carrying. For a loose trio, Savea's got some wheels, but otherwise you're scratching around. It's unbalanced and kind of weird as a trio.
Agree totally on the trio and lack of balance.
SC and LJ look slow for loosies to me too - and I have heard EB's bronco times are very good for a forward. But all players are limited in some respect - even McCaw was not the best ball runner, didn't have the best hands, wasn't the greatest lineout target. I just find it weird that EB's effectiveness and now pace are gone on and on about when the alternative (and guy who was given the first chance) in SF just totally went missing.
Does anyone genuinely think that Finau (or Jacobson) replacing Blackadder is going to fix the ABs? -
@antipodean that looks more like the problem with using chatGPT to interpret stats to me.
I know what I'm seeing - and that's a guy with a big work-rate making a heap of tackles and carries. That's backed up by the stats.
What you are seeing is an alleged 'ineffective' which can't really be backed up with any data publicly available, and anecdote of certain game situations where he's looked slow which frankly is worthless.
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
Secondly, I'm quicker than Jerry Collins, but I wouldn't have been a great selection ahead of him on the flank.
Some of rugby is a short sprint game, but loose forward play is more like a bronco test. EB won't do great at the former, but will do well at the latter.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean that looks more like the problem with using chatGPT to interpret stats to me.
I know what I'm seeing - and that's a guy with a big work-rate making a heap of tackles and carries. That's backed up by the stats.
What you are seeing is an alleged 'ineffective' which can't really be backed up with any data publicly available, and anecdote of certain game situations where he's looked slow which frankly is worthless.I get it, my (and others') observations are worthless. Yours are awesome.
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
He hadn't.
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean that looks more like the problem with using chatGPT to interpret stats to me.
I know what I'm seeing - and that's a guy with a big work-rate making a heap of tackles and carries. That's backed up by the stats.
What you are seeing is an alleged 'ineffective' which can't really be backed up with any data publicly available, and anecdote of certain game situations where he's looked slow which frankly is worthless.I get it, my (and others') observations are worthless. Yours are awesome.
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
He hadn't.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean that looks more like the problem with using chatGPT to interpret stats to me.
I know what I'm seeing - and that's a guy with a big work-rate making a heap of tackles and carries. That's backed up by the stats.
What you are seeing is an alleged 'ineffective' which can't really be backed up with any data publicly available, and anecdote of certain game situations where he's looked slow which frankly is worthless.I get it, my (and others') observations are worthless. Yours are awesome.
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
He hadn't.
Yeah, mine are just mine, and yours are just yours. You don't really need to be snarky about it.
The coaches do pick him of course - so that's at least a couple of (and others').Do you genuinely think that Finau (or Jacobson) replacing Blackadder is going to fix the ABs?
-
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean that looks more like the problem with using chatGPT to interpret stats to me.
I know what I'm seeing - and that's a guy with a big work-rate making a heap of tackles and carries. That's backed up by the stats.
What you are seeing is an alleged 'ineffective' which can't really be backed up with any data publicly available, and anecdote of certain game situations where he's looked slow which frankly is worthless.I get it, my (and others') observations are worthless. Yours are awesome.
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
He hadn't.
Yeah, mine are just mine, and yours are just yours. You don't really need to be snarky about it.
The coaches do pick him of course - so that's at least a couple of (and others').Do you genuinely think that Finau (or Jacobson) replacing Blackadder is going to fix the ABs?
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Do you genuinely think that Finau (or Jacobson) replacing Blackadder is going to fix the ABs?
I've previously explained my solution for the backrow and it's not confined to replacing Blackadder.
-
I have a theory that Blackadder exhausts himself trying to be everywhere like McCaw was, and as a result is not effective when he does make a tackle or hit a ruck, as he's gassed. Also means when there's a breakout he can't keep up.
-
If the selectors are in love with Blackadder, IMO they'd be better to put him at 7 and let him do his stuff there. We could then carry Ardie at 8 and look for more size and power at 6.
Personally, I think Blackadder < Papalii, and Lakai only looks a year away.
And looking towards 2027, EB will be 32 going on 33 and will likely have still only played another 20 odd more Super rugby games. I just don't quite see how his selection is really needed when we have older quality still available (they are still keeping Cane for this year), quality there in their prime (Papalii), and quality coming (Lakai).
So, in 2027, who will be our 6 and can we get 30-40 tests in them by then? Finau probably needs time - even our very best in Kaino took four years to nail down the jersey, and if they could make a decision about using Blackadder at 7. it would be one way of giving some tests to Finau to see if he can find his feet at this level.
Another player who may go well at the next level is Ah Kuoi - he certainly has the size but I wonder about his mindset. Then, there are others coming but none look ready.
My issue with the selections now is that they don't appear to be ideal for balance now and are clearly not building for the future. I don't get it at all.
-
If the selectors are in love with Blackadder, IMO they'd be better to put him at 7 and let him do his stuff there. We could then carry Ardie at 8 and look for more size and power at 6.
Personally, I think Blackadder < Papalii, and Lakai only looks a year away.
And looking towards 2027, EB will be 32 going on 33 and will likely have still only played another 20 odd more Super rugby games. I just don't quite see how his selection is really needed when we have older quality still available (they are still keeping Cane for this year), quality there in their prime (Papalii), and quality coming (Lakai).
So, in 2027, who will be our 6 and can we get 30-40 tests in them by then? Finau probably needs time - even our very best in Kaino took four years to nail down the jersey, and if they could make a decision about using Blackadder at 7. it would be one way of giving some tests to Finau to see if he can find his feet at this level.
Another player who may go well at the next level is Ah Kuoi - he certainly has the size but I wonder about his mindset. Then, there are others coming but none look ready.
My issue with the selections now is that they don't appear to be ideal for balance now and are clearly not building for the future. I don't get it at all.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
If the selectors are in love with Blackadder, IMO they'd be better to put him at 7 and let him do his stuff there. We could then carry Ardie at 8 and look for more size and power at 6.
Personally, I think Blackadder < Papalii, and Lakai only looks a year away.
And looking towards 2027, EB will be 32 going on 33 and will likely have still only played another 20 odd more Super rugby games. I just don't quite see how his selection is really needed when we have older quality still available (they are still keeping Cane for this year), quality there in their prime (Papalii), and quality coming (Lakai).
So, in 2027, who will be our 6 and can we get 30-40 tests in them by then? Finau probably needs time - even our very best in Kaino took four years to nail down the jersey, and if they could make a decision about using Blackadder at 7. it would be one way of giving some tests to Finau to see if he can find his feet at this level.
Another player who may go well at the next level is Ah Kuoi - he certainly has the size but I wonder about his mindset. Then, there are others coming but none look ready.
My issue with the selections now is that they don't appear to be ideal for balance now and are clearly not building for the future. I don't get it at all.
Ah Kuoi is definitely more of a 6 for me, problem is, is that Finau is also there for the Chiefs.
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
If the selectors are in love with Blackadder, IMO they'd be better to put him at 7 and let him do his stuff there. We could then carry Ardie at 8 and look for more size and power at 6.
Personally, I think Blackadder < Papalii, and Lakai only looks a year away.
And looking towards 2027, EB will be 32 going on 33 and will likely have still only played another 20 odd more Super rugby games. I just don't quite see how his selection is really needed when we have older quality still available (they are still keeping Cane for this year), quality there in their prime (Papalii), and quality coming (Lakai).
So, in 2027, who will be our 6 and can we get 30-40 tests in them by then? Finau probably needs time - even our very best in Kaino took four years to nail down the jersey, and if they could make a decision about using Blackadder at 7. it would be one way of giving some tests to Finau to see if he can find his feet at this level.
Another player who may go well at the next level is Ah Kuoi - he certainly has the size but I wonder about his mindset. Then, there are others coming but none look ready.
My issue with the selections now is that they don't appear to be ideal for balance now and are clearly not building for the future. I don't get it at all.
Ah Kuoi is definitely more of a 6 for me, problem is, is that Finau is also there for the Chiefs.
Yep, and at Super level, Finau is the better player. However, if Ah Kuoi got his chance and went well, Finau could easily be switched out.
Personally, I think Finau has the tools, but just needs time and coaching. I'm hoping that they are developing him for the future as a squaddie now... we'll find out I guess when we get our next squad.
-
Ah Kuoi is back to playing lock though, even for BOP. The AB XV selections will give an indicator of their thoughts, and Haig might be the player Robertson and co turn to.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
Ah Kuoi is back to playing lock though, even for BOP. The AB XV selections will give an indicator of their thoughts, and Haig might be the player Robertson and co turn to.
You do realise thats because MSR is injured and its the best for the team for him to play there (more depth other areas). Guarantee if MSR and Sangster both available he would be 6 again
-
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
Ah Kuoi is back to playing lock though, even for BOP. The AB XV selections will give an indicator of their thoughts, and Haig might be the player Robertson and co turn to.
You do realise thats because MSR is injured and its the best for the team for him to play there (more depth other areas). Guarantee if MSR and Sangster both available he would be 6 again
@bayimports Yes. MSR was sitting in front of me at a game and had his arm in a sling. My point was mainly related to the Chiefs, where Ah Kuoi usually replaced a lock not the 6. Everyone, myself included, expected him to play more at blindside. Again, that could have been due to squad injuries as well.
-
If the selectors are in love with Blackadder, IMO they'd be better to put him at 7 and let him do his stuff there. We could then carry Ardie at 8 and look for more size and power at 6.
Personally, I think Blackadder < Papalii, and Lakai only looks a year away.
And looking towards 2027, EB will be 32 going on 33 and will likely have still only played another 20 odd more Super rugby games. I just don't quite see how his selection is really needed when we have older quality still available (they are still keeping Cane for this year), quality there in their prime (Papalii), and quality coming (Lakai).
So, in 2027, who will be our 6 and can we get 30-40 tests in them by then? Finau probably needs time - even our very best in Kaino took four years to nail down the jersey, and if they could make a decision about using Blackadder at 7. it would be one way of giving some tests to Finau to see if he can find his feet at this level.
Another player who may go well at the next level is Ah Kuoi - he certainly has the size but I wonder about his mindset. Then, there are others coming but none look ready.
My issue with the selections now is that they don't appear to be ideal for balance now and are clearly not building for the future. I don't get it at all.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
If the selectors are in love with Blackadder, IMO they'd be better to put him at 7 and let him do his stuff there. We could then carry Ardie at 8 and look for more size and power at 6.
My issue with the selections now is that they don't appear to be ideal for balance now and are clearly not building for the future. I don't get it at all.
I kinda agree that he'd be better at 7, but my assumption is that they think they have quality at 7 in Cane and Dalton, Ardie is locked in, and nobody else putting their hand up at 6. Blackadder should really be the 'cover all positions' bench guy.
I'd like to see them give Wallace (or Hoskins) a go at 8: Ardie may well not make it to the next WC as a starter, he may get injured, and it doesn't make sense for nobody at all to ever get a run there. Meanwhile we've tried three different 7s and three different 6s I think?
-
@antipodean that looks more like the problem with using chatGPT to interpret stats to me.
I know what I'm seeing - and that's a guy with a big work-rate making a heap of tackles and carries. That's backed up by the stats.
What you are seeing is an alleged 'ineffective' which can't really be backed up with any data publicly available, and anecdote of certain game situations where he's looked slow which frankly is worthless.
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
Secondly, I'm quicker than Jerry Collins, but I wouldn't have been a great selection ahead of him on the flank.
Some of rugby is a short sprint game, but loose forward play is more like a bronco test. EB won't do great at the former, but will do well at the latter.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean that looks more like the problem with using chatGPT to interpret stats to me.
I know what I'm seeing - and that's a guy with a big work-rate making a heap of tackles and carries. That's backed up by the stats.
What you are seeing is an alleged 'ineffective' which can't really be backed up with any data publicly available, and anecdote of certain game situations where he's looked slow which frankly is worthless.
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
> Secondly, I'm quicker than Jerry Collins, but I wouldn't have been a great selection ahead of him on the flank.
Some of rugby is a short sprint game, but loose forward play is more like a bronco test. EB won't do great at the former, but will do well at the latter.I doubt you could tackle like him though
-
If the selectors are in love with Blackadder, IMO they'd be better to put him at 7 and let him do his stuff there. We could then carry Ardie at 8 and look for more size and power at 6.
Personally, I think Blackadder < Papalii, and Lakai only looks a year away.
And looking towards 2027, EB will be 32 going on 33 and will likely have still only played another 20 odd more Super rugby games. I just don't quite see how his selection is really needed when we have older quality still available (they are still keeping Cane for this year), quality there in their prime (Papalii), and quality coming (Lakai).
So, in 2027, who will be our 6 and can we get 30-40 tests in them by then? Finau probably needs time - even our very best in Kaino took four years to nail down the jersey, and if they could make a decision about using Blackadder at 7. it would be one way of giving some tests to Finau to see if he can find his feet at this level.
Another player who may go well at the next level is Ah Kuoi - he certainly has the size but I wonder about his mindset. Then, there are others coming but none look ready.
My issue with the selections now is that they don't appear to be ideal for balance now and are clearly not building for the future. I don't get it at all.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
If the selectors are in love with Blackadder, IMO they'd be better to put him at 7 and let him do his stuff there. We could then carry Ardie at 8 and look for more size and power at 6.
Personally, I think Blackadder < Papalii, and Lakai only looks a year away.
And looking towards 2027, EB will be 32 going on 33 and will likely have still only played another 20 odd more Super rugby games. I just don't quite see how his selection is really needed when we have older quality still available (they are still keeping Cane for this year), quality there in their prime (Papalii), and quality coming (Lakai).
So, in 2027, who will be our 6 and can we get 30-40 tests in them by then? Finau probably needs time - even our very best in Kaino took four years to nail down the jersey, and if they could make a decision about using Blackadder at 7. it would be one way of giving some tests to Finau to see if he can find his feet at this level.
Another player who may go well at the next level is Ah Kuoi - he certainly has the size but I wonder about his mindset. Then, there are others coming but none look ready.
My issue with the selections now is that they don't appear to be ideal for balance now and are clearly not building for the future. I don't get it at all.
So basically Ethan is wasting reps that could be used to find the actual 6 we will need in 2027
-
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
If the selectors are in love with Blackadder, IMO they'd be better to put him at 7 and let him do his stuff there. We could then carry Ardie at 8 and look for more size and power at 6.
My issue with the selections now is that they don't appear to be ideal for balance now and are clearly not building for the future. I don't get it at all.
I kinda agree that he'd be better at 7, but my assumption is that they think they have quality at 7 in Cane and Dalton, Ardie is locked in, and nobody else putting their hand up at 6. Blackadder should really be the 'cover all positions' bench guy.
I'd like to see them give Wallace (or Hoskins) a go at 8: Ardie may well not make it to the next WC as a starter, he may get injured, and it doesn't make sense for nobody at all to ever get a run there. Meanwhile we've tried three different 7s and three different 6s I think?
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Blackadder should really be the 'cover all positions' bench guy.
Why don't they try that then? Bench loosie is a real problem. Perhaps Ethan could be the answer.
