All Blacks 2024
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Maybe Ryan is worse than Mains then.
How can there be zero starting Blues players in the forwards who had the most dominant pack in Super Rugby?
Papalii and Tuipulotu were starting until injury... and as an extension, the tight five has been perfectly fine. Samapeni Finau, Shannon Frizell, heck even Sotutu and Ioane in the past have shown that Super Rugby form does not always equate to ABs form - very different style of rugby.
If you think Ofa, Riccitelli, Renata, etc. are making a difference to the ABs, you're either an idiot or a Blues fan.
The tight five has not been fine. They have zero ability to get over the advantage line in phase play as a unit.
That's one of the reasons why we've struggled at restarts.
All of the loose forward you mentioned have shown talent at test level. They just haven't been developed properly because it's endless chopping and changing instead of picking 1 guy and sticking with him. They haven't been allowed to grow with set backs. Nonu and Kaino had set backs.
We've already had 4 guys start at 6 this year alone.
Just pick the best long term prospect and give them a run like Mckenzie has been given.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Roigard has had a great start to his international career but he hasn't been tearing up trees a la Lomu - not meant in the physical sense but in the influence sense
I think far too many people are placing the success of the ABs at his feet
If he turns out to be the next Dupont I will be the first to say I was wrong and shout how good he is from the rooftops
But the weight of expectation, as we're already seeing with 'Surf Jesus, can often be too heavy a load to bear
Or may be expected from the wrong person
Not at all he's no Lomu, but he plays nine and offers a much wider range of threats than all our other 9s. More than Smith who's pass was so important but also his lack of running game made us so much more predictable. He just has to play and offer those threats and it will make a huge difference
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Roigard has had a great start to his international career but he hasn't been tearing up trees a la Lomu - not meant in the physical sense but in the influence sense
I think far too many people are placing the success of the ABs at his feet
If he turns out to be the next Dupont I will be the first to say I was wrong and shout how good he is from the rooftops
But the weight of expectation, as we're already seeing with 'Surf Jesus, can often be too heavy a load to bear
Or may be expected from the wrong person
Not at all he's no Lomu, but he plays nine and offers a much wider range of threats than all our other 9s. More than Smith whose pass was so important but also his lack of running game made us so much more predictable. He just has to play and offer those threats and it will make a huge difference
He certainly has potential to add quality to our play and was on fire in super rugby.
But with such a serious injury, I think most are just hoping he can get some rugby in this year.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
October 5 is the planned return for Roigard. He will link up with the ABs next week.
There is a video interview in the article.
If he was on the bench for the RWC final, with all the cards and stuff that happened, we would've won. Bringing on Christie with 15 to go was pointless. Brining on Roigard would've changed out play. Roigard is a game changing player whom I can't wait to be back in black
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
October 5 is the planned return for Roigard. He will link up with the ABs next week.
There is a video interview in the article.
If he was on the bench for the RWC final, with all the cards and stuff that happened, we would've won. Bringing on Christie with 15 to go was pointless. Brining on Roigard would've changed out play. Roigard is a game changing player whom I can't wait to be back in black
I’m still seething over it.
Moronic selections.
Roigard had the hot hand.
Be bold and go out and win the bloody thing.
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Roigard has had a great start to his international career but he hasn't been tearing up trees a la Lomu - not meant in the physical sense but in the influence sense
I think far too many people are placing the success of the ABs at his feet
If he turns out to be the next Dupont I will be the first to say I was wrong and shout how good he is from the rooftops
But the weight of expectation, as we're already seeing with 'Surf Jesus, can often be too heavy a load to bear
Or may be expected from the wrong person
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Roigard has had a great start to his international career but he hasn't been tearing up trees a la Lomu - not meant in the physical sense but in the influence sense
I think far too many people are placing the success of the ABs at his feet
If he turns out to be the next Dupont I will be the first to say I was wrong and shout how good he is from the rooftops
But the weight of expectation, as we're already seeing with 'Surf Jesus, can often be too heavy a load to bear
Or may be expected from the wrong person
To add to my other comment, you are right- it is unfair and unrealistic to expect a rookie halfback to make the immediate impact that people are hoping he might.
Clearly he looks like he will be a very good player and he was the form player in SR before he got injured.
Lots of talk about Super rugby not preparing players for tests as it did before. I think it is still producing very good players but now it seems they need more time to adjust to test rugby than players from previous eras who debuted for the All Blacks.
Or perhaps it is just because we are not producing players that are better than their counterparts from other top nations, as regularly as we used to.
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Conservatism was trendy and was doing my head in. Obvious to all and sundry Roigard was a game changer.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Roigard has had a great start to his international career but he hasn't been tearing up trees a la Lomu - not meant in the physical sense but in the influence sense
I think far too many people are placing the success of the ABs at his feet
If he turns out to be the next Dupont I will be the first to say I was wrong and shout how good he is from the rooftops
But the weight of expectation, as we're already seeing with 'Surf Jesus, can often be too heavy a load to bear
Or may be expected from the wrong person
To add to my other comment, you are right- it is unfair and unrealistic to expect a rookie halfback to make the immediate impact that people are hoping he might.
Clearly he looks like he will be a very good player and he was the form player in SR before he got injured.
Lots of talk about Super rugby not preparing players for tests as it did before. I think it is still producing very good players but now it seems they need more time to adjust to test rugby than players from previous eras who debuted for the All Blacks.
Or perhaps it is just because we are not producing players that are better than their counterparts from other top nations, as regularly as we used to.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
it seems they need more time to adjust to test rugby than players from previous eras who debuted for the All Blacks.
Probably because they either don't play super rugby, play poorly or don't get selected when in form.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
it seems they need more time to adjust to test rugby than players from previous eras who debuted for the All Blacks.
Probably because they either don't play super rugby, play poorly or don't get selected when in form.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
it seems they need more time to adjust to test rugby than players from previous eras who debuted for the All Blacks.
Probably because they either don't play super rugby, play poorly or don't get selected when in form.
I hear ya Bones. I would like to have seen more weight given to SR form for selection purposes
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Roigard has had a great start to his international career but he hasn't been tearing up trees a la Lomu - not meant in the physical sense but in the influence sense
I think far too many people are placing the success of the ABs at his feet
If he turns out to be the next Dupont I will be the first to say I was wrong and shout how good he is from the rooftops
But the weight of expectation, as we're already seeing with 'Surf Jesus, can often be too heavy a load to bear
Or may be expected from the wrong person
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
**Roigard has had a great start to his international career but he hasn't been tearing up trees a la Lomu - not meant in the physical sense but in the influence sense
I think far too many people are placing the success of the ABs at his feet**
If he turns out to be the next Dupont I will be the first to say I was wrong and shout how good he is from the rooftops
But the weight of expectation, as we're already seeing with 'Surf Jesus, can often be too heavy a load to bear
Or may be expected from the wrong person
Yeah the old mate @Canes4life should have a sit down and a cup of tea before posting about him I reckon
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
**Roigard has had a great start to his international career but he hasn't been tearing up trees a la Lomu - not meant in the physical sense but in the influence sense
I think far too many people are placing the success of the ABs at his feet**
If he turns out to be the next Dupont I will be the first to say I was wrong and shout how good he is from the rooftops
But the weight of expectation, as we're already seeing with 'Surf Jesus, can often be too heavy a load to bear
Or may be expected from the wrong person
Yeah the old mate @Canes4life should have a sit down and a cup of tea before posting about him I reckon
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
**Roigard has had a great start to his international career but he hasn't been tearing up trees a la Lomu - not meant in the physical sense but in the influence sense
I think far too many people are placing the success of the ABs at his feet**
If he turns out to be the next Dupont I will be the first to say I was wrong and shout how good he is from the rooftops
But the weight of expectation, as we're already seeing with 'Surf Jesus, can often be too heavy a load to bear
Or may be expected from the wrong person
Yeah the old mate @Canes4life should have a sit down and a cup of tea before posting about him I reckon
He’ll definitely be an upgrade of what we have atm but no one should expect him to hit the form he showed in Super straight off the bat. He was easily the best player in Super before his injury and the Canes were looking like world beaters with him running the show, but I’m the first one to know that he’ll take time to get back to his best with the injury he’s faced.
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Papali'i has only played 3 out of the 7 tests this year so clearly he isn't rated highly.
The coaching staff really disliked what the team put out against England but I would say those were our best two games this year and the only games where we played 80 minutes with relatively low errors.
They've been trying other combos since those games to try and get to the game they want to play but they've only won 1 out of the last 4.
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Conservatism was trendy and was doing my head in. Obvious to all and sundry Roigard was a game changer.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
Conservatism was trendy and was doing my head in. Obvious to all and sundry Roigard was a game changer.
When your scrum half can skin 5 Springboks starting from the back of a ruck 60 meters out and score under the poles singlehandedly, its fair to say he "has a bit about him".
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Conservatism was trendy and was doing my head in. Obvious to all and sundry Roigard was a game changer.
We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
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We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
……..for all the shit John Hart got about keeping Glen Osborne at 15 ( where let’s face it he’d done a fine job ) that was a bold, terrific selection.
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We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
Ireland beat South Africa in South Africa with 22 year old Jamie Osborne playing his first professional match at 15.
(a position he hadn't played at any level since he was a teenager).We are pearl clutching over giving 26 year old, 33 times capped, Will Jordan and 23 year old Ruben Love (who played whole Super Rugby season at 15 with aplomb) a go at 15.
Meanwhile SA have blooded Sasha at 10 against us, Fassi at 15 while Canan Moodie has 11 caps aged 21.
We are losing both now on the field AND in the development stakes.
Too many underperforming incumbents have a vise like grip on their Allblack jerseys.
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Papali'i has only played 3 out of the 7 tests this year so clearly he isn't rated highly.
The coaching staff really disliked what the team put out against England but I would say those were our best two games this year and the only games where we played 80 minutes with relatively low errors.
They've been trying other combos since those games to try and get to the game they want to play but they've only won 1 out of the last 4.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Papali'i has only played 3 out of the 7 tests this year so clearly he isn't rated highly.
The coaching staff really disliked what the team put out against England but I would say those were our best two games this year and the only games where we played 80 minutes with relatively low errors.
They've been trying other combos since those games to try and get to the game they want to play but they've only won 1 out of the last 4.
Yeah they clearly don't rate/like Blues forwards. I assume they'll be lining up Blackadder/Jacobsen once Cane leaves? Or maybe Lakai?
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I think the reality being discussed here is mostly about our coaching team being so ingrained in super rugby against Australian teams and getting to grips with the differences needed for international rugby against the big guns.
So much online posting, especially away from this forum, seemingly expects us to dominate every match against all international teams and do it by playing the way we do in super rugby.
Give the new coaches a couple of years to mould our players and build new patterns to pressure all our top international opponents. Don't assume that a centre field confrontational Blues forwards approach will dominate South Africa, or that a Hurricanes backline will open up the European guns like super teams.
Why not support the attempts to tweak and develop combo variations so that we can vary our game plan with confidence against stronger international opponents. -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
Ireland beat South Africa in South Africa with 22 year old Jamie Osborne playing his first professional match at 15.
(a position he hadn't played at any level since he was a teenager).We are pearl clutching over giving 26 year old, 33 times capped, Will Jordan and 23 year old Ruben Love (who played whole Super Rugby season at 15 with aplomb) a go at 15.
Meanwhile SA have blooded Sasha at 10 against us, Fassi at 15 while Canan Moodie has 11 caps aged 21.
We are losing both now on the field AND in the development stakes.
Too many underperforming incumbents have a vise like grip on their Allblack jerseys.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Too many underperforming incumbents have a vise like grip on their Allblack jerseys.
Bingo and instead of the criticism being against the players or the coaches that selected them - the narrative becomes that we need to select overseas ABs
The ABs talk about pressure but they don't have selection pressure.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
Too many underperforming incumbents have a vise like grip on their Allblack jerseys.
Bingo and instead of the criticism being against the players or the coaches that selected them - the narrative becomes that we need to select overseas ABs
The ABs talk about pressure but they don't have selection pressure.
@KiwiMurph been the case for many years now TBF, harder to get dropped than get in the ABs...
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Roigard has had a great start to his international career but he hasn't been tearing up trees a la Lomu - not meant in the physical sense but in the influence sense
I think far too many people are placing the success of the ABs at his feet
If he turns out to be the next Dupont I will be the first to say I was wrong and shout how good he is from the rooftops
But the weight of expectation, as we're already seeing with 'Surf Jesus, can often be too heavy a load to bear
Or may be expected from the wrong person
Not at all he's no Lomu, but he plays nine and offers a much wider range of threats than all our other 9s. More than Smith who's pass was so important but also his lack of running game made us so much more predictable. He just has to play and offer those threats and it will make a huge difference
Hope he's the answer you're all looking for
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Roigard has had a great start to his international career but he hasn't been tearing up trees a la Lomu - not meant in the physical sense but in the influence sense
I think far too many people are placing the success of the ABs at his feet
If he turns out to be the next Dupont I will be the first to say I was wrong and shout how good he is from the rooftops
But the weight of expectation, as we're already seeing with 'Surf Jesus, can often be too heavy a load to bear
Or may be expected from the wrong person
Not at all he's no Lomu, but he plays nine and offers a much wider range of threats than all our other 9s. More than Smith who's pass was so important but also his lack of running game made us so much more predictable. He just has to play and offer those threats and it will make a huge difference
Hope he's the answer you're all looking for
All who?
I just think he will be a significant step up from what we currently have.
As I hope for with the coach over the last one as well, just a significant step up. Not a big ask in that case! Am prepared to give him a bit of breathing space to do that too. People who are expecting miracles probably call him “Jesus”
He’s more Brian I reckon. -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
We've become far to conservative.
Christian Cullen would debut at 25 instead of 20 now days.
Ireland beat South Africa in South Africa with 22 year old Jamie Osborne playing his first professional match at 15.
(a position he hadn't played at any level since he was a teenager).We are pearl clutching over giving 26 year old, 33 times capped, Will Jordan and 23 year old Ruben Love (who played whole Super Rugby season at 15 with aplomb) a go at 15.
Meanwhile SA have blooded Sasha at 10 against us, Fassi at 15 while Canan Moodie has 11 caps aged 21.
We are losing both now on the field AND in the development stakes.
Too many underperforming incumbents have a vise like grip on their Allblack jerseys.
