All Blacks 2024
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@His-Bobness as you’ve pointed out - they’re building handy leads against what are the best teams in the world, which is surely a positive. So rather than having a go at Razor because you don’t like his style or what he stands for, what do you think are the reasons they’re falling away later in games? The coaching team control tactics and when the bench is introduced etc, but Razor’s not actually out there playing the game.
@Darth-Sader Good question but hard to answer because it’s not evident to me what he is actually bringing to the coaching beyond setting the overall direction and culture. From what I’ve read, he leaves the on-field tactics to his coaching staff. I do wonder about the falling out with MacDonald and what was behind it. Whatever the truth, the buck stops with him and the fact the team is doing the same things every test is something he has to fix and take responsibility for.
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I think the rot started in the early 2010s as PlayStation culture arrived in the All Blacks. Players began doing individual "special dances" after they scored, needless attention-seeking off the field. It all spoke of a generation who thought they knew best and ignored the All Blacks' traditional way. But the team at the time had old-school types among the leadership group and were good enough to get away with it.
We've ended up with four massive problems.
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An obsession with high-paced Rugby opposed to the grunt and wrestle that Test match rugby often becomes.
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A lack of awareness and knowledge about how the rest of the world play and officiate the game.
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An inability to do the basics consistently well under pressure.
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A lack of leaders who can communicate how to stay cool under fire to other players.
@sparky On your second point - the lack of awareness of and appreciation for how the game is developing elsewhere - I do think is particularly true for NZ, which arguably suffered more from the post-COVID isolation than anyone. The loss of South Africa from the Super competition and being shackled to playing mediocre Australian teams seems to have left AB rugby with a single focus - speed. That can work as we saw in the first half of BC1, but when it stops working they don’t seem to have an alternative and frustration/ill-discipline seems to creep in. It speaks to a lack of on-field leadership, which is one of your other apt observations, which in turn suggests to me Robertson is stuck in a sort of twilight zone between the Henry/Hansen/Foster past and whatever comes next. He’s done well with the newer generation of Sititi, Vai, Ratima and all, but he’s going to have to roll the dice more aggressively - and try something new - at some point.
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@sparky On your second point - the lack of awareness of and appreciation for how the game is developing elsewhere - I do think is particularly true for NZ, which arguably suffered more from the post-COVID isolation than anyone. The loss of South Africa from the Super competition and being shackled to playing mediocre Australian teams seems to have left AB rugby with a single focus - speed. That can work as we saw in the first half of BC1, but when it stops working they don’t seem to have an alternative and frustration/ill-discipline seems to creep in. It speaks to a lack of on-field leadership, which is one of your other apt observations, which in turn suggests to me Robertson is stuck in a sort of twilight zone between the Henry/Hansen/Foster past and whatever comes next. He’s done well with the newer generation of Sititi, Vai, Ratima and all, but he’s going to have to roll the dice more aggressively - and try something new - at some point.
@His-Bobness I agree with a previous post on the issue of our retention of tens in New Zealand and how we aren't giving them enough game time to develop them or retaining them for that matter.
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Codie Taylor's been the best and most consistent of the experienced ABs. I'd like to see him as captain in Bled 2 with Scott coming off bench
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The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking. -
@His-Bobness as you’ve pointed out - they’re building handy leads against what are the best teams in the world, which is surely a positive. So rather than having a go at Razor because you don’t like his style or what he stands for, what do you think are the reasons they’re falling away later in games? The coaching team control tactics and when the bench is introduced etc, but Razor’s not actually out there playing the game.
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@His-Bobness as you’ve pointed out - they’re building handy leads against what are the best teams in the world, which is surely a positive. So rather than having a go at Razor because you don’t like his style or what he stands for, what do you think are the reasons they’re falling away later in games? The coaching team control tactics and when the bench is introduced etc, but Razor’s not actually out there playing the game.
He picked the coaches and then the players, but it’s not his fault?
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The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
( yeah yeah, I remember the try against the Boks, what was the score in that game again ? )
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
( yeah yeah, I remember the try against the Boks, what was the score in that game again ? )
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
Speaking of, Roigard will join the All Blacks this week as they prepare for the second Bled.
It's great that Ratima is playing so well because when Roigard does eventually come back he can ease back through minutes from the bench.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
Speaking of, Roigard will join the All Blacks this week as they prepare for the second Bled.
It's great that Ratima is playing so well because when Roigard does eventually come back he can ease back through minutes from the bench.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
Speaking of, Roigard will join the All Blacks this week as they prepare for the second Bled.
It's great that Ratima is playing so well because when Roigard does eventually come back he can ease back through minutes from the bench.
You took a minute to reply, is your internet lagging
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
Speaking of, Roigard will join the All Blacks this week as they prepare for the second Bled.
It's great that Ratima is playing so well because when Roigard does eventually come back he can ease back through minutes from the bench.
You took a minute to reply, is your internet lagging
?@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
Speaking of, Roigard will join the All Blacks this week as they prepare for the second Bled.
It's great that Ratima is playing so well because when Roigard does eventually come back he can ease back through minutes from the bench.
You took a minute to reply, is your internet lagging
?Yeah a bit, I've setup a notification system so whenever anyone mentions Roigard it pings. :winking_face:
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
( yeah yeah, I remember the try against the Boks, what was the score in that game again ? )
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
( yeah yeah, I remember the try against the Boks, what was the score in that game again ? )
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
I could possibly agree if Ngatai had performed for the ABs in the same manner as Roigard. You're well off with your comparison.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
( yeah yeah, I remember the try against the Boks, what was the score in that game again ? )
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
I could possibly agree if Ngatai had performed for the ABs in the same manner as Roigard. You're well off with your comparison.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
( yeah yeah, I remember the try against the Boks, what was the score in that game again ? )
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
I could possibly agree if Ngatai had performed for the ABs in the same manner as Roigard. You're well off with your comparison.
I don't think it is overreaching to suggest that if Cam had played in the final we might have won out in Paris. He tore it up at RWC23
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At the end of the day, a team of talented individuals that is regularly going from the sublime to the absurd is a symptom of a poorly coached team. It reminds me of the Chiefs under Foster, or the Hurricanes of old who coined the marketing phrase "expect the unexpected " because nobody knew what fucking version of the Canes was going to show up. That's where we are at with the ABs right now.
I don't know what the story was with Schmidt exactly but NZR should have been moving mountains to get him to take the mantle. His international experience and success would have been invaluable to this group of players. I don't doubt Razor is trying hard, but he's clearly learning on the job right now.
We are in for more of the same until either Razor is replaced, or he hopefully figures out what is needed to beat the big boys in test footy. The former is looking the most likely right now, but time will tell.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
Speaking of, Roigard will join the All Blacks this week as they prepare for the second Bled.
It's great that Ratima is playing so well because when Roigard does eventually come back he can ease back through minutes from the bench.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
Speaking of, Roigard will join the All Blacks this week as they prepare for the second Bled.
It's great that Ratima is playing so well because when Roigard does eventually come back he can ease back through minutes from the bench.
There he is
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
Speaking of, Roigard will join the All Blacks this week as they prepare for the second Bled.
It's great that Ratima is playing so well because when Roigard does eventually come back he can ease back through minutes from the bench.
There he is
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
Speaking of, Roigard will join the All Blacks this week as they prepare for the second Bled.
It's great that Ratima is playing so well because when Roigard does eventually come back he can ease back through minutes from the bench.
There he is
Mate, you’re a bit slow.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
Speaking of, Roigard will join the All Blacks this week as they prepare for the second Bled.
It's great that Ratima is playing so well because when Roigard does eventually come back he can ease back through minutes from the bench.
There he is
Mate, you’re a bit slow.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
Speaking of, Roigard will join the All Blacks this week as they prepare for the second Bled.
It's great that Ratima is playing so well because when Roigard does eventually come back he can ease back through minutes from the bench.
There he is
Mate, you’re a bit slow.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
Speaking of, Roigard will join the All Blacks this week as they prepare for the second Bled.
It's great that Ratima is playing so well because when Roigard does eventually come back he can ease back through minutes from the bench.
There he is
Mate, you’re a bit slow.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
Speaking of, Roigard will join the All Blacks this week as they prepare for the second Bled.
It's great that Ratima is playing so well because when Roigard does eventually come back he can ease back through minutes from the bench.
There he is
Mate, you’re a bit slow.
I was making a posh latte and watching KW advance too far down the pitch on sky.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
( yeah yeah, I remember the try against the Boks, what was the score in that game again ? )
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
I could possibly agree if Ngatai had performed for the ABs in the same manner as Roigard. You're well off with your comparison.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The 2 late yellows smack of panic, trying too hard and lack of leadership.
I'm hoping guys like Sititi, Vaai and Roigard can bring ice cold nerves at the pointy end of the game.
Currently leadership is passive and people are panicking.I think we need to stop talking this guy up until he, you know, actually makes the field again in a Black jersey ?
( yeah yeah, I remember the try against the Boks, what was the score in that game again ? )
The last thing we need is another Charlie Ngatai.
I could possibly agree if Ngatai had performed for the ABs in the same manner as Roigard. You're well off with your comparison.
Good point.
Ngatai is Rugby Jesus. Roigard is merely a very good player.
I appreciate the feedback
