All Blacks 2024
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Jet Think a big casualty will be Billy Proctor come EOYT.
On what basis? Best performing centre all year in Super, one of the standout players in his one start against Fiji. I guess Razor doesn't like players that consistently perform to a high standard, instead he prefers players that spend half of their career broken or alternatively players who have experience but are about 5 years past their best.
No wonder the All Blacks don't have the mana and the winning % they once used to.
On the basis of al his talk about players being able to play more than one position, I guess. One position well is less than two poorly in Razor's eyes
Not that I agree but I feel this might well happen
Well in that case we will never have the best players playing for the ABs, we'll just have a bunch of average Harry's that gain selection only because they can play multiple positions. What a crock of shite. This is exactly why the ABs continue to struggle because we keep doing the same shit and expect different results.
When the ABs were at their peak in 2015 we had our best players playing in their specialist positions. ie. Conrad Smith was seen as purely a centre, Nonu as a 12, Kaino as a 6. McCaw as a 7, Read as an 8, Carter as a 10 etc etc. We achieved consistently excellent results because selection wasn't based on the bullshit that we see today.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
When the ABs were at their peak in 2015 we had our best players playing in their specialist positions. ie. Conrad Smith was seen as purely a centre, Nonu as a 12, Kaino as a 6. McCaw as a 7, Read as an 8, Carter as a 10 etc etc. We achieved consistently excellent results because selection wasn't based on the bullshit that we see today.
I reckon you'd find there was a bit more shifting around than you recall.
Just in the 2015 RWC Final, SBW replaced Conrad at halftime and played at centre - a position he only ever once started in for the ABs.
Beaudy came on for NMS - I pretty sure at fullback and pushed Ben Smith to the right wing.
Beaudy was also our first five reserve and started there in at least one of the pool matches.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
When the ABs were at their peak in 2015 we had our best players playing in their specialist positions. ie. Conrad Smith was seen as purely a centre, Nonu as a 12, Kaino as a 6. McCaw as a 7, Read as an 8, Carter as a 10 etc etc. We achieved consistently excellent results because selection wasn't based on the bullshit that we see today.
I reckon you'd find there was a bit more shifting around than you recall.
Just in the 2015 RWC Final, SBW replaced Conrad at halftime and played at centre - a position he only ever once started in for the ABs.
Beaudy came on for NMS - I pretty sure at fullback and pushed Ben Smith to the right wing.
Beaudy was also our first five reserve and started there in at least one of the pool matches.
@Chris-B i feel that kind of proves the point, mostly the versatile player came off the bench (SBW and BB)....but specialists mostly started...almost we should be treating them as specialist positions rather than seeming randomly rotating player on and off
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@Chris-B i feel that kind of proves the point, mostly the versatile player came off the bench (SBW and BB)....but specialists mostly started...almost we should be treating them as specialist positions rather than seeming randomly rotating player on and off
@Kiwiwomble Don't get me wrong, I like specialisation - but, hasn't that largely been the case this year, as well?
Have we had anyone who's not a specialist at any of 1,2,3,4,5,8,9,10,11,12,13?
Sititi playing 6 has been a bit of a surprise. Blackadder got a run vs Fiji at 7. He and Jacobsen are bits of Chris Masoe/Victor Vito utilities.
ALB has been a midfield utility for years, so I don't count him.
And the transition of Jordan to fullback has been well telegraphed.
Slightly surprised that they've pushed Rieko to the wing a couple of times.
Who else?
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@Kiwiwomble Don't get me wrong, I like specialisation - but, hasn't that largely been the case this year, as well?
Have we had anyone who's not a specialist at any of 1,2,3,4,5,8,9,10,11,12,13?
Sititi playing 6 has been a bit of a surprise. Blackadder got a run vs Fiji at 7. He and Jacobsen are bits of Chris Masoe/Victor Vito utilities.
ALB has been a midfield utility for years, so I don't count him.
And the transition of Jordan to fullback has been well telegraphed.
Slightly surprised that they've pushed Rieko to the wing a couple of times.
Who else?
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@Kiwiwomble Don't get me wrong, I like specialisation - but, hasn't that largely been the case this year, as well?
Have we had anyone who's not a specialist at any of 1,2,3,4,5,8,9,10,11,12,13?
Sititi playing 6 has been a bit of a surprise. Blackadder got a run vs Fiji at 7. He and Jacobsen are bits of Chris Masoe/Victor Vito utilities.
ALB has been a midfield utility for years, so I don't count him.
And the transition of Jordan to fullback has been well telegraphed.
Slightly surprised that they've pushed Rieko to the wing a couple of times.
Who else?
the front row are all specialists generally so yeah
but scooter and vaai are often mentioned as 6 options...so no, not specilsists
both our 10's are 10/15 so no, not specialists,
reece and telea have both played on the left (havent checked if this year) when they started as right wings so no, not specilist,
RI has also covered 11 when starting in midfield,
and ALB plays both 12 and 13
and assuming the team leaked is correct we'll see havili who has play pretty much everywhere -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@Kiwiwomble Don't get me wrong, I like specialisation - but, hasn't that largely been the case this year, as well?
Have we had anyone who's not a specialist at any of 1,2,3,4,5,8,9,10,11,12,13?
Sititi playing 6 has been a bit of a surprise. Blackadder got a run vs Fiji at 7. He and Jacobsen are bits of Chris Masoe/Victor Vito utilities.
ALB has been a midfield utility for years, so I don't count him.
And the transition of Jordan to fullback has been well telegraphed.
Slightly surprised that they've pushed Rieko to the wing a couple of times.
Who else?
the front row are all specialists generally so yeah
but scooter and vaai are often mentioned as 6 options...so no, not specilsists
both our 10's are 10/15 so no, not specialists,
reece and telea have both played on the left (havent checked if this year) when they started as right wings so no, not specilist,
RI has also covered 11 when starting in midfield,
and ALB plays both 12 and 13
and assuming the team leaked is correct we'll see havili who has play pretty much everywhere@Kiwiwomble If we're only going to pick specialists according to your definition, we won't have any players to choose from.
Scooter and Vaa'i are obviously locks.
Colin Meads played quite a few less tests than Scooter - but started twice as many as a loose forward!
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@Kiwiwomble If we're only going to pick specialists according to your definition, we won't have any players to choose from.
Scooter and Vaa'i are obviously locks.
Colin Meads played quite a few less tests than Scooter - but started twice as many as a loose forward!
@Chris-B but the comparison was with the 2015 team...how many times did BBBR or whitekock play 6 for the AB's?
or read play 7? savea play on the right? nonu and smith play 15 or wing?
there is a big difference between what in the past was considered versatility and now where its not 100% clear several players best position
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@Chris-B but the comparison was with the 2015 team...how many times did BBBR or whitekock play 6 for the AB's?
or read play 7? savea play on the right? nonu and smith play 15 or wing?
there is a big difference between what in the past was considered versatility and now where its not 100% clear several players best position
@Kiwiwomble Talking about Razor's era - we haven't had any locks playing 6 have we?
The loosies have shuffled a bit, but mostly it's been Dalton and Cane who are specialist 7s playing 7, Ardie's been a constant at 8. Sititi's been a surprise - and Blackadder and Jacobson have been a bit like Vito was in 2015.
Actually, Ben Franks played both sides during the 2015 RWC, Kaino, Read and Vito all appear to have spent some time at lock. Cane played at 6 - these ones off the bench. SBW played at 12 and 13. Bender at 14 and 15. Beauden at 10 and 15. Colin Slade started a game at fullback.
Vito appears to have played half an hour at centre!
Haven't looked at all of the games.
Though, generally, I'd agree that it seems we've moved towatds placing greater value on utility.
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If Razor picks a bunch of players who would appear to be poorer than the players with SR form, and heaven forbid we crater in the EOYT, how long before he's called into the Principal's office?
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@canefan for me immediate, we dont want another fozzie debacle where it dragged on and frankly became less and less clear what was going on
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan for me immediate, we dont want another fozzie debacle where it dragged on and frankly became less and less clear what was going on
Fair is fair. If Fozzie faced scrutiny, so should Razor if he isn't performing
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A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
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A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
He promised much but ultimately failed to deliver because of injury
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@Kiwiwomble Talking about Razor's era - we haven't had any locks playing 6 have we?
The loosies have shuffled a bit, but mostly it's been Dalton and Cane who are specialist 7s playing 7, Ardie's been a constant at 8. Sititi's been a surprise - and Blackadder and Jacobson have been a bit like Vito was in 2015.
Actually, Ben Franks played both sides during the 2015 RWC, Kaino, Read and Vito all appear to have spent some time at lock. Cane played at 6 - these ones off the bench. SBW played at 12 and 13. Bender at 14 and 15. Beauden at 10 and 15. Colin Slade started a game at fullback.
Vito appears to have played half an hour at centre!
Haven't looked at all of the games.
Though, generally, I'd agree that it seems we've moved towatds placing greater value on utility.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@Kiwiwomble Talking about Razor's era - we haven't had any locks playing 6 have we?
The loosies have shuffled a bit, but mostly it's been Dalton and Cane who are specialist 7s playing 7, Ardie's been a constant at 8. Sititi's been a surprise - and Blackadder and Jacobson have been a bit like Vito was in 2015.
Actually, Ben Franks played both sides during the 2015 RWC, Kaino, Read and Vito all appear to have spent some time at lock. Cane played at 6 - these ones off the bench. SBW played at 12 and 13. Bender at 14 and 15. Beauden at 10 and 15. Colin Slade started a game at fullback.
Vito appears to have played half an hour at centre!
Haven't looked at all of the games.
Though, generally, I'd agree that it seems we've moved towatds placing greater value on utility.
“I am really big on players playing two positions; their preferred position and another position. Things change really quickly, and the utility factor is critical.”
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A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/528985/who-is-the-most-ill-disciplined-all-black
"... crunches the numbers"... 'LOL'.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
Absolutely. I can’t even remember Goodhue at all apart from a questionable mullet.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
Absolutely. I can’t even remember Goodhue at all apart from a questionable mullet.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
A fit and firing Jack Goodhue in his prime (or a player in his mould) would solve a lot of problems in the AB midfield
If we are dreaming lets have Nonu thanks
Absolutely. I can’t even remember Goodhue at all apart from a questionable mullet.
his defensive performance vs SA in WLG was incredible. Test level. But then he got injured, slow and form fell off a cliff
