All Blacks 2024
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@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B
meads started as a rangy loose forward . . . only switched to lock laterYeah - I guess my point is that no-one these days would consider him anything but a specialist lock.
Interestingly, at 1.92 metres, we'd be a bit concerned that he wouldn't be a tall enough blindside if paired with Ardie!
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Just trying to scratch my head in regards as to why our bench is so ineffective and one possible theory either by bad luck or co-inicedence are all of them (forward reserves esp) just poor at the clean-out?
Amua for instance has been awful at clearing bodies, in Aus1 we had a huge break on in the second half and both him (and I think Tosi) both with fresh legs couldn't shift a singular Aussie defender who then got the turnover.
However this is just a singular instance I remember and cartainly not a concise video analysis.
It's just baffling because theyre all "impact" players - at least when it comes to carrying the ball, but if they come on and can't clear the ruck effectively and we continually concede turnovers then no wonder we can't build anything on attack?
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If I was AB coach, putting injuries and squad selections aside, this is the 23 I'd be gunning for. I think it is far stronger than anything we have put out so far.
Note - these selections put the overall strength of the 23 ahead of the idea that our most experienced players MUST be in the starting 15. Experience off the bench is critical in the modern game.
Stephen Perofeta
Will Jordan
Rieko Ioane
Jordie Barrett
Caleb Clarke
Damian McKenzie
Cameron Roigard
Hoskins Sotutu
Dalton Papali'i
Akira Ioane
Tupo Vaa'i
Scott Barrett
Tyrel Lomax
Codie Taylor
Ethan de GrootSamisoni Taukei'aho
Tamaiti Williams
Pasilio Tosi
Patrick Tuipulotu
Ardie Savea
Cortez Ratima
Beauden Barrett
Anton Lienert-BrownI'd be bringing all of the bench forwards on at about the 50 minute mark, as in terms of 'impact' you get the most impact out of replacing your forwards but you do need to give them at least 30 minutes to get into the game. Pat T for Vaa'i and Ardie for either Sotutu or Akira depending how the game is going.
On the backs, Ratima's speed of pass can be used to up the tempo in the final quarter if needed, and ALB / Beauden are very experienced and cover multiple positions each. ALB coming on allows us to shift Rieko to the wing where he an find a bit more space in the final quarter. Beauden slotting in at 15 where he has had huge success from the bench in the past.
Then selection wise I'd be trying to give game time where possible to the newbies with huge potential: Sititi, Love, Proctor and Plummer. Building their confidence by slotting one or two of them at a time into the main 23 as opposed to them getting game time when we make wholesale changes against a minnow.
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Just trying to scratch my head in regards as to why our bench is so ineffective and one possible theory either by bad luck or co-inicedence are all of them (forward reserves esp) just poor at the clean-out?
Amua for instance has been awful at clearing bodies, in Aus1 we had a huge break on in the second half and both him (and I think Tosi) both with fresh legs couldn't shift a singular Aussie defender who then got the turnover.
However this is just a singular instance I remember and cartainly not a concise video analysis.
It's just baffling because theyre all "impact" players - at least when it comes to carrying the ball, but if they come on and can't clear the ruck effectively and we continually concede turnovers then no wonder we can't build anything on attack?
@Windows97 personally i think we are just starting impact players (and spreading them too thin) and having Utility (ok and everything) players on the bench.....we shold swap a lot of them around, savea, bb even RI on the bench, people like ALB to start
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Just trying to scratch my head in regards as to why our bench is so ineffective and one possible theory either by bad luck or co-inicedence are all of them (forward reserves esp) just poor at the clean-out?
Amua for instance has been awful at clearing bodies, in Aus1 we had a huge break on in the second half and both him (and I think Tosi) both with fresh legs couldn't shift a singular Aussie defender who then got the turnover.
However this is just a singular instance I remember and cartainly not a concise video analysis.
It's just baffling because theyre all "impact" players - at least when it comes to carrying the ball, but if they come on and can't clear the ruck effectively and we continually concede turnovers then no wonder we can't build anything on attack?
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Just trying to scratch my head in regards as to why our bench is so ineffective and one possible theory either by bad luck or co-inicedence are all of them (forward reserves esp) just poor at the clean-out?
There's another factor to look at too... not just the bench. Are we doing enough to fatigue teams throughout the game?
We can fatigue teams when the game gets very loose however that doesn't happen often in Test rugby. We do not fatigue teams by taking on the opposition pack directly. Ball runners in the pack etc.. the old cliche of earning the right to go wide.
Even with subs I think we are getting tired but the opposition is relatively fresh
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Just trying to scratch my head in regards as to why our bench is so ineffective and one possible theory either by bad luck or co-inicedence are all of them (forward reserves esp) just poor at the clean-out?
There's another factor to look at too... not just the bench. Are we doing enough to fatigue teams throughout the game?
We can fatigue teams when the game gets very loose however that doesn't happen often in Test rugby. We do not fatigue teams by taking on the opposition pack directly. Ball runners in the pack etc.. the old cliche of earning the right to go wide.
Even with subs I think we are getting tired but the opposition is relatively fresh
@Duluth That's a very good point, SA avoid fatigue by basically replacing their entire forward pack in the second half and always end the game fresher than what we do.
I also note we tend to drip feed our subs on, often late in the game where other teams (Arg and SA) make 3-4 subs all at the same time.
It feels like were running our starting XV till they're gassed, then bringing on people too late to work their way into the game and be effective.
Our attack also seems quite heavily dependant on a lot of off the ball activity, backdoor option passing with a lot of double loops etc which expends a lot of energy on attack.
However if the above is true then it would point to a complete blunder in terms of team preperation and tactics on behalf of the coaching group.
If the team only has the gas in the tank to carry out the attcking pattern for 50 minutes then its absolutely essential that your bench can slot into that exact same pattern for the remaining 30 minutes without that pattern breaking down.
But we see our attcking pattern past the 50 minute mark completly going to kak in terms of execution, which is baffling.
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@Duluth That's a very good point, SA avoid fatigue by basically replacing their entire forward pack in the second half and always end the game fresher than what we do.
I also note we tend to drip feed our subs on, often late in the game where other teams (Arg and SA) make 3-4 subs all at the same time.
It feels like were running our starting XV till they're gassed, then bringing on people too late to work their way into the game and be effective.
Our attack also seems quite heavily dependant on a lot of off the ball activity, backdoor option passing with a lot of double loops etc which expends a lot of energy on attack.
However if the above is true then it would point to a complete blunder in terms of team preperation and tactics on behalf of the coaching group.
If the team only has the gas in the tank to carry out the attcking pattern for 50 minutes then its absolutely essential that your bench can slot into that exact same pattern for the remaining 30 minutes without that pattern breaking down.
But we see our attcking pattern past the 50 minute mark completly going to kak in terms of execution, which is baffling.
In an ideal world, we'd be able to dial up the attacking pattern in the last 30. The usage of the bench and roles for players just isn't working.
The rugby pod was discussing this the other day and suggesting that they just need to simplify things very much in line with @Duluth 's suggestions above.
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This is interesting:
The media is naturally sceptical when it thinks a coach is trying to get them to buy into an agenda that may be contrived or manufactured to hide the truth, and while Robertson was hoping to pave the way for soft or accommodating headlines should he change his No 10 this weekend, he’s actually managed to throw fuel on the fire that faith in McKenzie is waning.
What hasn’t helped him stay in control of the narrative was his needless mention of Mo’unga in Sydney last week.
Robertson told reporters he’d gone surfing with Andrew Johns, and then revealed that the league legend had asked him, “When is Richie coming back?”.
The spectre of Mo’unga has hung over much of this year already – with Robertson having never hidden his desire to force a change in eligibility rules to be able to pick overseas players, and New Zealand Rugby itself also revealing it is trying to persuade the former Crusader to cut short his three-year contract in Japan.
But for McKenzie to hear his own coach voluntarily provide media with much-clicked headlines about Mo’unga two days out from a Bledisloe test, seemed either strangely naïve or highly calculated, but whichever it was, it has intensified the likelihood that the headlines and comment pieces on Thursday will not tell the story Robertson wants.
It’s probable that McKenzie remains Robertson’s preferred No 10 – the man whom he will continue to back to become the franchise quarterback.
But having lost control of that narrative, it may take Robertson some time to persuade the media and public that this is the case and that he’s as committed to McKenzie now as he was in July.
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I'm not surprised that he wants Mo'unga back so badly, he was his king pin for much of his success at Super Rugby. Trouble is, Mo'unga got found out at test level, and it seems the same thing is happening to Razor.
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I'm not surprised that he wants Mo'unga back so badly, he was his king pin for much of his success at Super Rugby. Trouble is, Mo'unga got found out at test level, and it seems the same thing is happening to Razor.
No, see, that was because the previous coaches didn’t trust him enough.
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is richie mo-fucking-ungas career being retconned?? or am i being gaslit??
or is Gregor Paul just a hack, and Scott Robertson a fraud?
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
or is Gregor Paul just a hack
Speaking of Gregor, he posted this rubbish a few weeks ago and I was surprised no one posted it:
The most egregious part of it is he keeps conflating the finances/viewership of the NRL as a whole (i.e. in Oz and NZ) when comparing against NZ rugby in NZ alone.
He also has a weird point about league being on FTA and how that's beneficial, yet the league and the rugby are on the same bloody channel.
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If I was AB coach, putting injuries and squad selections aside, this is the 23 I'd be gunning for. I think it is far stronger than anything we have put out so far.
Note - these selections put the overall strength of the 23 ahead of the idea that our most experienced players MUST be in the starting 15. Experience off the bench is critical in the modern game.
Stephen Perofeta
Will Jordan
Rieko Ioane
Jordie Barrett
Caleb Clarke
Damian McKenzie
Cameron Roigard
Hoskins Sotutu
Dalton Papali'i
Akira Ioane
Tupo Vaa'i
Scott Barrett
Tyrel Lomax
Codie Taylor
Ethan de GrootSamisoni Taukei'aho
Tamaiti Williams
Pasilio Tosi
Patrick Tuipulotu
Ardie Savea
Cortez Ratima
Beauden Barrett
Anton Lienert-BrownI'd be bringing all of the bench forwards on at about the 50 minute mark, as in terms of 'impact' you get the most impact out of replacing your forwards but you do need to give them at least 30 minutes to get into the game. Pat T for Vaa'i and Ardie for either Sotutu or Akira depending how the game is going.
On the backs, Ratima's speed of pass can be used to up the tempo in the final quarter if needed, and ALB / Beauden are very experienced and cover multiple positions each. ALB coming on allows us to shift Rieko to the wing where he an find a bit more space in the final quarter. Beauden slotting in at 15 where he has had huge success from the bench in the past.
Then selection wise I'd be trying to give game time where possible to the newbies with huge potential: Sititi, Love, Proctor and Plummer. Building their confidence by slotting one or two of them at a time into the main 23 as opposed to them getting game time when we make wholesale changes against a minnow.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
If I was AB coach, putting injuries and squad selections aside, this is the 23 I'd be gunning for. I think it is far stronger than anything we have put out so far.
Note - these selections put the overall strength of the 23 ahead of the idea that our most experienced players MUST be in the starting 15. Experience off the bench is critical in the modern game.
Stephen Perofeta
Will Jordan
Rieko Ioane
Jordie Barrett
Caleb Clarke
Damian McKenzie
Cameron Roigard
Hoskins Sotutu
Dalton Papali'i
Akira Ioane
Tupo Vaa'i
Scott Barrett
Tyrel Lomax
Codie Taylor
Ethan de GrootSamisoni Taukei'aho
Tamaiti Williams
Pasilio Tosi
Patrick Tuipulotu
Ardie Savea
Cortez Ratima
Beauden Barrett
Anton Lienert-BrownI'd be bringing all of the bench forwards on at about the 50 minute mark, as in terms of 'impact' you get the most impact out of replacing your forwards but you do need to give them at least 30 minutes to get into the game. Pat T for Vaa'i and Ardie for either Sotutu or Akira depending how the game is going.
On the backs, Ratima's speed of pass can be used to up the tempo in the final quarter if needed, and ALB / Beauden are very experienced and cover multiple positions each. ALB coming on allows us to shift Rieko to the wing where he an find a bit more space in the final quarter. Beauden slotting in at 15 where he has had huge success from the bench in the past.
Then selection wise I'd be trying to give game time where possible to the newbies with huge potential: Sititi, Love, Proctor and Plummer. Building their confidence by slotting one or two of them at a time into the main 23 as opposed to them getting game time when we make wholesale changes against a minnow.
Want a job?
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Just trying to scratch my head in regards as to why our bench is so ineffective and one possible theory either by bad luck or co-inicedence are all of them (forward reserves esp) just poor at the clean-out?
There's another factor to look at too... not just the bench. Are we doing enough to fatigue teams throughout the game?
We can fatigue teams when the game gets very loose however that doesn't happen often in Test rugby. We do not fatigue teams by taking on the opposition pack directly. Ball runners in the pack etc.. the old cliche of earning the right to go wide.
Even with subs I think we are getting tired but the opposition is relatively fresh
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Just trying to scratch my head in regards as to why our bench is so ineffective and one possible theory either by bad luck or co-inicedence are all of them (forward reserves esp) just poor at the clean-out?
There's another factor to look at too... not just the bench. Are we doing enough to fatigue teams throughout the game?
We can fatigue teams when the game gets very loose however that doesn't happen often in Test rugby. We do not fatigue teams by taking on the opposition pack directly. Ball runners in the pack etc.. the old cliche of earning the right to go wide.
Even with subs I think we are getting tired but the opposition is relatively fresh
We seem to be able to score points in the 1st half, outscoring other teams / a few times we have done enough to win the game in the first half.
Are we not fatiguing the opposition or are we just fatigueing ourselves by going all out in the 1st half as we seem to be doing?
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
It looks like Blackadder will be playing for Ta$man next week.
I've heard Proctor will be available for Wellington aswell. Not sure about others but it would be great if Aumua was released to get more mins under his belt.
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In an ideal world, we'd be able to dial up the attacking pattern in the last 30. The usage of the bench and roles for players just isn't working.
The rugby pod was discussing this the other day and suggesting that they just need to simplify things very much in line with @Duluth 's suggestions above.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
In an ideal world, we'd be able to dial up the attacking pattern in the last 30. The usage of the bench and roles for players just isn't working.
The rugby pod was discussing this the other day and suggesting that they just need to simplify things very much in line with @Duluth 's suggestions above.
Was thinking that as I read Duluth.
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i actually think our attack is really simple. We don't play a heap of shapes that require constant realignment, it's all about speed. Forwards are playing pods or out the back to DMac. Midfield is straight and narrow, again out the back to DMac, and all to try and get our quick guys in to space out wide. And the key is the ball being in the ruck for as short a time as possible.
I never watch a 2nd time so can't back any of this up. I do think this pattern for want of a better term absolutely fatigues us, and the opposition take advantage. South Africa replace half the team at half time. Australia starting competing in rucks (Argentina did too), and our tired guys are starting to miss assignments. I do think our replacement strategy is having a huge effect. Guys who are even playing well (possibly even especially those guys) need to come off regardless, and earlier to give their replacements time to get in to the rhythm of the game. Can we rely on DMac skinning guys for 80 minutes, AND make as many decisions as we are asking? Is replacing a winger actually helping us at all?
