All Blacks 2024
-
he's made the most tackles because he has played, by the length of the Flemington straight, the most minutes. By your own shit stats his "per 80" tackles figure is lower than basically every other loose forward.
-
Personally I don't think he's been terrible, his workrate is still good - but he has made a lot of mistakes and has not been effective, so I'd still put him on the bench.
The bare facts of it are that we're getting outplayed in the loose forwards by all comers, and both our veterans are also getting outplayed by a 21 year old kid playing out of position in their own team. -
Stats are from RugbyPass. Considering he's made the most tackles its not surprising he's made the most dominant tackles too.
You guys think he's been terrible.
Looking at Stuff, Rugbypass and Planet Rugby player ratings for the last two weeks he's got three 7's and three 8's.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Stats are from RugbyPass. Considering he's made the most tackles its not surprising he's made the most dominant tackles too.
You guys think he's been terrible.
Looking at Stuff, Rugbypass and Planet Rugby player ratings for the last two weeks he's got three 7's and three 8's.
i dont think to many if any are saying hes been terrible, at most he's just been down on his previous levels.
I biggest problem with him, and its not reflected in stats, is how he works with the other loosies, they still play like guys that met the on the bus to the ground
you can have an amazing opera singer, the worlds best rock guitarist and the worlds best trombonist....theyre all playing music....individually theyre all playing music very well....but are they complimenting each other?....is playing together making them better? i dont think so and the ONLY person they have trying changing....is savea
-
Pretty much my feelings
But when you opt to win now and don’t, it must be considered below par.
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/razors-first-rugby-championship-failure-as-all-blacks-head-coach/
-
he's made the most tackles because he has played, by the length of the Flemington straight, the most minutes. By your own shit stats his "per 80" tackles figure is lower than basically every other loose forward.
Yes I get your point about tackles per 80 minutes. I'm not saying his defense has been stand out but I am saying it hasn't been poor as others have claimed. He's only missed 2 tackles this year. He's done nothing for people to claim his defense has been poor this year - especially compared to Sam Cane who's let multiple tries in over the last 3 games.
-
only missed 2 tackles all year? I call bullshit on that.
And what do the stats say about him backing off and scragging forwards running at him? allowing insane levels of momentum to develop. I bet it is down as a "tackle made" even though it was complete shit. And it has happened more than once, and against those huge rampaging australian forwards.
Through shit defense, crap rucking cleaning, and the large amount of ball he has turned over i call bullshit on the "he hasn't been that bad" calls.
-
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Stats are from RugbyPass. Considering he's made the most tackles its not surprising he's made the most dominant tackles too.
You guys think he's been terrible.
Looking at Stuff, Rugbypass and Planet Rugby player ratings for the last two weeks he's got three 7's and three 8's.
i dont think to many if any are saying hes been terrible, at most he's just been down on his previous levels.
I biggest problem with him, and its not reflected in stats, is how he works with the other loosies, they still play like guys that met the on the bus to the ground
you can have an amazing opera singer, the worlds best rock guitarist and the worlds best trombonist....theyre all playing music....individually theyre all playing music very well....but are they complimenting each other?....is playing together making them better? i dont think so and the ONLY person they have trying changing....is savea
Personally I wouldn't have Savea at 8 and I would have never have made Cane the primary 7 or captain. That's one of the major reasons the Foster era was a failure in my opinion.
Having Savea at 8 does impact the balance but Cane is a much bigger problem in the loose forwards compared to Savea.
I actually don't mind if Savea goes to the bench either. Overall he has been the best and most consistent loose forward for us this year.
I don't think they have loose forward balance right and I also don't think they have the right balance in the tight five either and that is impacting how the loose forwards play. If you look at the starting tight five from the weekend there is not a single one of them who can reliably make metres up the middle. Taylor is a good runner but its always out wide which isn't what we need.
William's made an immediate impact on that front when he came on.
We need William's starting and preferably with one of Tuipolutu or Taukei'aho. Having tight forwards who can reliably go up the middle will help the loose forwards. Our scrum, lineout and maul will not suffer by bringing these guys in.
This will be even more important against Ireland and France.
-
only missed 2 tackles all year? I call bullshit on that.
And what do the stats say about him backing off and scragging forwards running at him? allowing insane levels of momentum to develop. I bet it is down as a "tackle made" even though it was complete shit. And it has happened more than once, and against those huge rampaging australian forwards.
Through shit defense, crap rucking cleaning, and the large amount of ball he has turned over i call bullshit on the "he hasn't been that bad" calls.
If it helps you I'd rather see Sotutu at 8.
I think if you're going to make extreme claims that he has been complete shit then there needs to be something in the stats to confirm that and there isn't. Then you've got three different media outlets rating him an 8 or a 7 in both games.
It's just not adding up.
Personally I would have rated him a 7 in both Bledisloe games.
Cane was the one that was rubbish in both games. You could tell that Cane was disappointed when he came off with his game. I saw that watching, I saw it in the ratings, I saw it in the stats.
-
lol at media ratings.
a 7? In Bledisloe 1?? How many times did he lose the ball in contact??
-
If it helps you I'd rather see Sotutu at 8.
I think if you're going to make extreme claims that he has been complete shit then there needs to be something in the stats to confirm that and there isn't. Then you've got three different media outlets rating him an 8 or a 7 in both games.
It's just not adding up.
Personally I would have rated him a 7 in both Bledisloe games.
Cane was the one that was rubbish in both games. You could tell that Cane was disappointed when he came off with his game. I saw that watching, I saw it in the ratings, I saw it in the stats.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Personally I would have rated him a 7 in both Bledisloe games.
7 for Bledisloe 1?
Savea lost possession 3 times and butchered an almost certain try but trying to bulldoze his way through multiple Wallabies which resulted in a held up/goal line drop out.
-
If it helps you I'd rather see Sotutu at 8.
I think if you're going to make extreme claims that he has been complete shit then there needs to be something in the stats to confirm that and there isn't. Then you've got three different media outlets rating him an 8 or a 7 in both games.
It's just not adding up.
Personally I would have rated him a 7 in both Bledisloe games.
Cane was the one that was rubbish in both games. You could tell that Cane was disappointed when he came off with his game. I saw that watching, I saw it in the ratings, I saw it in the stats.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Then you've got three different media outlets rating him an 8 or a 7 in both games.
the same media outlets concluding that Beaudy is our 10 forever and thoroughly outplayed DMac? Those media outlets?
The analysis on here is usually miles ahead of the media. The sauce is better, too
-
I'm not saying Savea should be our No 8 but that doesn't mean he's played badly.
Sititi has been great but is unproven against top teams. He went missing in the physicality stakes in the SRP final and he got bullied a bit physically in SA so he still had some development in front of him.
There are people who are creaming their panties about Sititis form against the Wallabies and these are often the same people who said Akira Ioanes motm performances against Australia don't count.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Sititi has been great but is unproven against top teams. He went missing in the physicality stakes in the SRP final
This is simply not true. He topped both tackles and carries for the Chiefs. He was excellent in a team that was thrashed.
I remember it pretty well, because my thoughts after watching him the week before in the Hurricanes demolition were 'let's see how he goes when the shoe is on the other foot'. -
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Then you've got three different media outlets rating him an 8 or a 7 in both games.
the same media outlets concluding that Beaudy is our 10 forever and thoroughly outplayed DMac? Those media outlets?
The analysis on here is usually miles ahead of the media. The sauce is better, too
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Then you've got three different media outlets rating him an 8 or a 7 in both games.
the same media outlets concluding that Beaudy is our 10 forever and thoroughly outplayed DMac? Those media outlets?
The analysis on here is usually miles ahead of the media. The sauce is better, too
Wot? That is a sad reflection on the media. Bloody hell!
-
https://super.rugby/therugbychampionship/competition-stats/
Savea
No 1 for carries
No 2 for tackles
No 4 for defenders beaten
No 8 for lineouts@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
https://super.rugby/therugbychampionship/competition-stats/
Savea
No 1 for carries
No 2 for tackles
No 4 for defenders beaten
No 8 for lineoutsLet's accept for the sake of argument that those stats are accurate. It raises two issues for me:
- How much better would Sititi (or Sotutu) have gone in that position instead?
- Why has a loose forward with 70% more carries than the next bloke not made the top 10 for metres gained? Taylor managed to. Especially if he's number one for defenders beaten? How is it Sititi can get in the top 10 of the competition for offloads despite playing vastly less and Savea couldn't?
-
lol at media ratings.
a 7? In Bledisloe 1?? How many times did he lose the ball in contact??
Media ratings aren't perfect but you'd expect to see at least one dudding him if your claims were based in reality.
Savea has made more carries than any other player in the tournament so I would expect he also turns the ball over more.
From the All Blacks Savea is ranked 11th for turnovers conceded per carry.
0.67 Narawa
0.62 Ratima
0.25 Ioane, Jacobson
0.24 Perenara
0.22 BB
0.17 Bell
0.15 Reece
0.14 Scott Barrett, Lomax, Darry
0.13 Tuipulotu, Newell, Papali''i
0.10 Mckenzie, Tele'a, Proctor, Williams, Jordan
0.09 SaveaIf you want to drop Savea for conceding turnovers you should drop all those other players first.
-
Media ratings aren't perfect but you'd expect to see at least one dudding him if your claims were based in reality.
Savea has made more carries than any other player in the tournament so I would expect he also turns the ball over more.
From the All Blacks Savea is ranked 11th for turnovers conceded per carry.
0.67 Narawa
0.62 Ratima
0.25 Ioane, Jacobson
0.24 Perenara
0.22 BB
0.17 Bell
0.15 Reece
0.14 Scott Barrett, Lomax, Darry
0.13 Tuipulotu, Newell, Papali''i
0.10 Mckenzie, Tele'a, Proctor, Williams, Jordan
0.09 SaveaIf you want to drop Savea for conceding turnovers you should drop all those other players first.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
From the All Blacks Savea is ranked 19th for turnovers conceded per carry.
Do they split out players who turned over the ball because the cleaners weren't fast or accurate enough from the players that just spilt it cold in the tackle..?
-
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
https://super.rugby/therugbychampionship/competition-stats/
Savea
No 1 for carries
No 2 for tackles
No 4 for defenders beaten
No 8 for lineoutsLet's accept for the sake of argument that those stats are accurate. It raises two issues for me:
- How much better would Sititi (or Sotutu) have gone in that position instead?
- Why has a loose forward with 70% more carries than the next bloke not made the top 10 for metres gained? Taylor managed to. Especially if he's number one for defenders beaten? How is it Sititi can get in the top 10 of the competition for offloads despite playing vastly less and Savea couldn't?
-
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
From the All Blacks Savea is ranked 19th for turnovers conceded per carry.
Do they split out players who turned over the ball because the cleaners weren't fast or accurate enough from the players that just spilt it cold in the tackle..?
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
From the All Blacks Savea is ranked 19th for turnovers conceded per carry.
Do they split out players who turned over the ball because the cleaners weren't fast or accurate enough from the players that just spilt it cold in the tackle..?
When Akira Ioane turned the ball over it was because he ran away from his support or didn't stay on his feet long enough but when Ethan Blackadder turned the ball over it was because the support runners/cleaners weren't quick enough.
There's all kinds of double standards for favourites.
Savea does whats needed to retain the ball. He runs the ball closer to the middle than what Taylor does.
-
Taylor spends all his time out on the wing. Savea is very rarely on the wing.
BTW I'm not arguing that Savea should be retained at 8. I'm saying he's not been as bad as some are claiming and Cane has been a lot worse.
