All Blacks 2024
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@Victor-Meldrew and with the sub system available now players can get experience without compromising results.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew and with the sub system available now players can get experience without compromising results.
I'll probably get shot down in flames, but i'd happily accept some losses if it meant progress and development of new or new-ish players and squad depth.
At the moment we seem to have the worst of both worlds.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew and with the sub system available now players can get experience without compromising results.
I'll probably get shot down in flames, but i'd happily accept some losses if it meant progress and development of new or new-ish players and squad depth.
At the moment we seem to have the worst of both worlds.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew and with the sub system available now players can get experience without compromising results.
I'll probably get shot down in flames, but i'd happily accept some losses if it meant progress and development of new or new-ish players and squad depth.
At the moment we seem to have the worst of both worlds.
For Proctor and Love to have had no meaningful minutes by now is frankly absurd.
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In my mind we aren't far off.
In the last year we lost the WC final by a whisker and lost a SA series by a whisker.
I agree we need to keep experimenting with the loosie combinations and 12-13.
Time to be sensible but brave through the sub system.
Success does breed success and players like Sititi , Williams, Roigard , Samisoni and Clarke bring in the crowds. -
In my mind we aren't far off.
In the last year we lost the WC final by a whisker and lost a SA series by a whisker.
I agree we need to keep experimenting with the loosie combinations and 12-13.
Time to be sensible but brave through the sub system.
Success does breed success and players like Sititi , Williams, Roigard , Samisoni and Clarke bring in the crowds.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
In my mind we aren't far off.
In the last year we lost the WC final by a whisker and lost a SA series by a whisker.
I agree we need to keep experimenting with the loosie combinations and 12-13.
Time to be sensible but brave through the sub system.
Success does breed success and players like Sititi , Williams, Roigard , Samisoni and Clarke bring in the crowds.I think we got to that that final on muscle memory, bloody mindedness and reputation alone.
It was a death rattle or one "last dance" for Fozzie, BBBR, Nugget, Whitelock and to an extent Cane.
I never took it that we were trending upwards or unearthed any dry powder or seen a project coming to fruition.
We could have just have easily been out in the quarters. I think Ireland beat us 7 times out of ten on current form. That quarter final just happened to be one of our 3 days in the sun.
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I disagree on that because currently we have good depth in props and locks the most important positions in the team. We can take on anyone and have a good chance with the right headspace attitude.
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Start using Paps, put Sititi at 8. Bring on Ratima- Roigard combo
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 Saw this today, Frizzel and Mounga are being chased.
Exactly what everyone who watched this year said: we're missing Richie and Shannon.
FFS
Frizzell would be a bonus,.
Did you watch the rwc final? 1 tackle, 1 miss in the entire time he was in the pitch, a lot of that when he was one of only 2 loose forwards. Worst loose forward performance by an ab ever.
He's had one great half in his entire career
Not entirely fair.
2 x good games by my reckoning...
...
But not worth chasing beyond what we've got in hand.
Same goes for Fly Half Jesus ...
It's not as if we're chasing prime Kaino and mid-career Carter.
Let them go and develop the next dudes.
100% this.
What has happened to the Allblack "entity" or "brand" that we are chasing after Mo'unga and Frizell like lovesick teenagers, while also trying to nurse Sam Cane and TJP through an EOYT?
Similarly we have the likes of Beaudy, Ardie and ALB racking up caps like they are Allblack greats.
When did we become so desperate and how have our stocks become so callow?
We are deifying players who on recent form dont deserve the adulation.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 Saw this today, Frizzel and Mounga are being chased.
Exactly what everyone who watched this year said: we're missing Richie and Shannon.
FFS
Frizzell would be a bonus,.
Did you watch the rwc final? 1 tackle, 1 miss in the entire time he was in the pitch, a lot of that when he was one of only 2 loose forwards. Worst loose forward performance by an ab ever.
He's had one great half in his entire career
Not entirely fair.
2 x good games by my reckoning...
...
But not worth chasing beyond what we've got in hand.
Same goes for Fly Half Jesus ...
It's not as if we're chasing prime Kaino and mid-career Carter.
Let them go and develop the next dudes.
100% this.
What has happened to the Allblack "entity" or "brand" that we are chasing after Mo'unga and Frizell like lovesick teenagers, while also trying to nurse Sam Cane and TJP through an EOYT?
Similarly we have the likes of Beaudy, Ardie and ALB racking up caps like they are Allblack greats.
When did we become so desperate and how have our stocks become so callow?
We are deifying players who on recent form dont deserve the adulation.
That the Crusaders are slowly bringing in overseas players - and now at first five - feels quite telling about the headspace and development stocks of NZ rugby.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
Last year I thought DMac was the best and most consistent flyhalf in NZ
As did I, but I think in reality people need to kind of put the provincial biases aside.
I think we are just in a really bad place collectively.To me it looks like our centres arent up to much. Our fly halves arent up to much. Our Backrow isnt up to much. And it doesnt seem to matter which ones we select.
Sititi is exempt from the above criticism, and may have only got his chance anyway thanks to Ethan getting injured.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
Last year I thought DMac was the best and most consistent flyhalf in NZ
As did I, but I think in reality people need to kind of put the provincial biases aside.
I think we are just in a really bad place collectively.To me it looks like our centres arent up to much. Our fly halves arent up to much. Our Backrow isnt up to much. And it doesnt seem to matter which ones we select.
Sititi is exempt from the above criticism, and may have only got his chance anyway thanks to Ethan getting injured.
Who would have thought ?
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 Saw this today, Frizzel and Mounga are being chased.
Exactly what everyone who watched this year said: we're missing Richie and Shannon.
FFS
Frizzell would be a bonus,.
Did you watch the rwc final? 1 tackle, 1 miss in the entire time he was in the pitch, a lot of that when he was one of only 2 loose forwards. Worst loose forward performance by an ab ever.
He's had one great half in his entire career
Not entirely fair.
2 x good games by my reckoning...
...
But not worth chasing beyond what we've got in hand.
Same goes for Fly Half Jesus ...
It's not as if we're chasing prime Kaino and mid-career Carter.
Let them go and develop the next dudes.
100% this.
What has happened to the Allblack "entity" or "brand" that we are chasing after Mo'unga and Frizell like lovesick teenagers, while also trying to nurse Sam Cane and TJP through an EOYT?
Similarly we have the likes of Beaudy, Ardie and ALB racking up caps like they are Allblack greats.
When did we become so desperate and how have our stocks become so callow?
We are deifying players who on recent form dont deserve the adulation.
That the Crusaders are slowly bringing in overseas players - and now at first five - feels quite telling about the headspace and development stocks of NZ rugby.
It's lazy.
NZ Rugby has become very conservative favouring experienced has beens over young talent.
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Can see us going after at least one league player before 2027. Manu would have to get a contract in NZ of course, won't have a lot of time. Someone like Warbrick could be a target, the opportunity for him to represent the All Blacks in addition to Rugby 7s, Aussie Rules, NRL would be the stuff of legends, he has the talent to do it. What is Ngani doing next year is he going back to league or could he have another stint at rugby in New Zealand?
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Can see us going after at least one league player before 2027. Manu would have to get a contract in NZ of course, won't have a lot of time. Someone like Warbrick could be a target, the opportunity for him to represent the All Blacks in addition to Rugby 7s, Aussie Rules, NRL would be the stuff of legends, he has the talent to do it. What is Ngani doing next year is he going back to league or could he have another stint at rugby in New Zealand?
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Can see us going after at least one league player before 2027. Manu would have to get a contract in NZ of course, won't have a lot of time. Someone like Warbrick could be a target, the opportunity for him to represent the All Blacks in addition to Rugby 7s, Aussie Rules, NRL would be the stuff of legends, he has the talent to do it. What is Ngani doing next year is he going back to league or could he have another stint at rugby in New Zealand?
My vote would go to Rocco Berry, would be good to get another son of an All Black in the team.
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@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Can see us going after at least one league player before 2027. Manu would have to get a contract in NZ of course, won't have a lot of time. Someone like Warbrick could be a target, the opportunity for him to represent the All Blacks in addition to Rugby 7s, Aussie Rules, NRL would be the stuff of legends, he has the talent to do it. What is Ngani doing next year is he going back to league or could he have another stint at rugby in New Zealand?
My vote would go to Rocco Berry, would be good to get another son of an All Black in the team.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Can see us going after at least one league player before 2027. Manu would have to get a contract in NZ of course, won't have a lot of time. Someone like Warbrick could be a target, the opportunity for him to represent the All Blacks in addition to Rugby 7s, Aussie Rules, NRL would be the stuff of legends, he has the talent to do it. What is Ngani doing next year is he going back to league or could he have another stint at rugby in New Zealand?
My vote would go to Rocco Berry, would be good to get another son of an All Black in the team.
Doesn't play like his Dad though sadly, he's not very physical. I scratch my head that he's a favourite of the coaches at the Warriors.
Manu is the guy I'd want to see have a crack at it, pity he's probably left it too late but if he enjoys his season in Japan he may be a chance.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Can see us going after at least one league player before 2027. Manu would have to get a contract in NZ of course, won't have a lot of time. Someone like Warbrick could be a target, the opportunity for him to represent the All Blacks in addition to Rugby 7s, Aussie Rules, NRL would be the stuff of legends, he has the talent to do it. What is Ngani doing next year is he going back to league or could he have another stint at rugby in New Zealand?
My vote would go to Rocco Berry, would be good to get another son of an All Black in the team.
Doesn't play like his Dad though sadly, he's not very physical. I scratch my head that he's a favourite of the coaches at the Warriors.
Manu is the guy I'd want to see have a crack at it, pity he's probably left it too late but if he enjoys his season in Japan he may be a chance.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Can see us going after at least one league player before 2027. Manu would have to get a contract in NZ of course, won't have a lot of time. Someone like Warbrick could be a target, the opportunity for him to represent the All Blacks in addition to Rugby 7s, Aussie Rules, NRL would be the stuff of legends, he has the talent to do it. What is Ngani doing next year is he going back to league or could he have another stint at rugby in New Zealand?
My vote would go to Rocco Berry, would be good to get another son of an All Black in the team.
Doesn't play like his Dad though sadly, he's not very physical. I scratch my head that he's a favourite of the coaches at the Warriors.
Manu is the guy I'd want to see have a crack at it, pity he's probably left it too late but if he enjoys his season in Japan he may be a chance.
Rocco is a guy who seems to keep very busy without enough impact. Might be Razor's kind of guy...
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If Razor's idea of coaching and development is to wait until his favourite players return from overseas we have a big problem
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
If Razor's idea of coaching and development is to wait until his favourite players return from overseas we have a big problem
One of the reasons I was really keen to have him coaching the ABs was his ability to coach and develop players, which he did right through his tenure at the Crusaders.
Would be good if he remembered that part of his skillset
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Bit of an open question
say we have a passable EOYT, no real hidings, maybe lose one or two, win the rest....what will Razor have achieved this year?
i dont feel he's done much of anything to build for the future, largely his selections have fallen on the "experience" side of the fence ...we've also lost the freedom cup and RC
what was the pass mark?
i feel at the start of the season i was thinking we would either
a ) all change, squad picked on form or potential, might win some, might lose some....but we start developing for the future
b ) safe selections but new game plan, one thing at a time (might be the safest best to get results)
c ) new blood but trying to implement the old attack from anywhere game plan betterI could have understood all three approaches
but i feel like what we've got is by and large
d ) lots of the same people doing a lot of the same things we've seen before...and still not winning
which seems like the worst of all worlds
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Bit of an open question
say we have a passable EOYT, no real hidings, maybe lose one or two, win the rest....what will Razor have achieved this year?
i dont feel he's done much of anything to build for the future, largely his selections have fallen on the "experience" side of the fence ...we've also lost the freedom cup and RC
what was the pass mark?
i feel at the start of the season i was thinking we would either
a ) all change, squad picked on form or potential, might win some, might lose some....but we start developing for the future
b ) safe selections but new game plan, one thing at a time (might be the safest best to get results)
c ) new blood but trying to implement the old attack from anywhere game plan betterI could have understood all three approaches
but i feel like what we've got is by and large
d ) lots of the same people doing a lot of the same things we've seen before...and still not winning
which seems like the worst of all worlds
Pretty much.
I expected the results we've had but a lot more development.
I was hoping for a return to more specialised roles in the loose forwards like we had with McCaw, Kaino and Read but instead we have the opposite.
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I think the next 6 weeks are going to be a reality check for a lot of people. It's not going to be pretty.
@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
I think the next 6 weeks are going to be a reality check for a lot of people. It's not going to be pretty.
I've got the exact same thought except in the opposite direction.
I think we will be much more efficient at actually finishing the many chances we created and will go through unbeaten with a bunch of the young and some of the old players combining for some Beautiful rugby reminiscent of the 2004-15 era.
The doomsdayers will be in the forum proclaiming they were right all along and that only now that Razor is doing what they said are we winning.
When in reality, the gameplan we've been building and refining all year and getting the players accustomed to was always going to take a few tests to iron out, as well as picking specific players while omitting some provincial favourites that don't fit in this new system.
(in saying that, regarding the squad I'd prefer Havili out for Higgins, Reece or Telea out for Narawa, perhaps the thought was they want those players getting game time with the XVs squad.. hopefully)
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
I think the next 6 weeks are going to be a reality check for a lot of people. It's not going to be pretty.
I've got the exact same thought except in the opposite direction.
I think we will be much more efficient at actually finishing the many chances we created and will go through unbeaten with a bunch of the young and some of the old players combining for some Beautiful rugby reminiscent of the 2004-15 era.
The doomsdayers will be in the forum proclaiming they were right all along and that only now that Razor is doing what they said are we winning.
When in reality, the gameplan we've been building and refining all year and getting the players accustomed to was always going to take a few tests to iron out, as well as picking specific players while omitting some provincial favourites that don't fit in this new system.
(in saying that, regarding the squad I'd prefer Havili out for Higgins, Reece or Telea out for Narawa, perhaps the thought was they want those players getting game time with the XVs squad.. hopefully)
@kpkanz what IS the new system?
my feeling is we're seeing a lot of the same play as we have for the last +4 year, at most its an evolution....but then i wonder if its an evolution....with lots of the same people involved...whats taking so to click?
