All Blacks vs Pumas I
-
yeah kaino will be a loss , but we have great depth in loosies , particularly when you consider the guys that missed selection, Luatua, Shields , Ioane , taufua
Shag will have a plan in place -
Kaino - much like Nonu and Conrad Smith and even McCaw to an extent, while a phenomenal player his core skills and duties are teachable. Yes, there is going to be a drop off and defensive lapses etc etc. But basically if you can replace Kaino and those other guys with someone who is an above average tackler, has above average technique at the breakdown and general ball playing skills you don't miss a beat. A lot of it is training and development and I have no concern in our ability to turn out loose forwards, midfielders etc. Some will be world class, some suitcases in the Messam/Thorne mold, some will be the greatest ever - but all in all they will do the job.
The worries, which are a long way down the track are the hard to find players. Having the two best locks in the world simultaneously is like having a wrist spinning leg spinner. You can't teach it. It's rare as hens teeth and devastating - it truly raises the ceiling for our game. So Rettallick and Whitelock for me are the hardest to replace. A Patty T, Luke Romano combo while not outstanding really changes how this team plays IMO.
After that turning up a 10 with the right combination of vision, temperament and the ability to defend seems to allude most nations. We kind of dealt with it during the Donald years too. Firm believer that 10 is a "natural" position - every AB 10 worth much has been on the radar by 21-22 if not already well into their career. We've been lucky to turn up Carter then Cruden (eventually), now Barrett. Taylor probably could have gone that way too. But you just look at the struggles Aussie are having, or that SA have had with one dimensional 10s and that could be us if we have a few bad crops of players. Even the Spencer/Mehrts years were a struggle at times given their respective limitations.
Decent halfback who can clear and a hooker who can throw straight while doing something around the park follow closely behind.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
Nope what? Nope he doesn't have the potential?
I never said he was better than Carter now and in my next post I said Carter was GOAT10 by a long way.Yeah sorry i read your other post after that. Yes he does have the potential and he’s the best 10 in the world. He has x factor in spades.
The abs have been winning so easily (in no small part to BB) that he’s not yet been called on to take the serious pressure kicks that win and lose games. It will be interesting to see where he is a year from now once other coaches and players have had a better look at him. Knowing what he can do being able to stop him is not the same thing of course. Eventually he will lose some of that speed and will need those other elements to have a long career and be a true great and rise above the likes of Spencer, Mehrts, Fox, Larkham, Botha, Potra, Wilco etc let alone DC.
Different eras obviously and (for example) Fox’s metronomic goal kicking and territorial game were enormous assets back then with attack and defensive from a first five not so important -while the running and distribution skills BB brings add a lot to the overall game plan right now .
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
Nope what? Nope he doesn't have the potential?
I never said he was better than Carter now and in my next post I said Carter was GOAT10 by a long way.Yeah sorry i read your other post after that. Yes he does have the potential and he’s the best 10 in the world. He has x factor in spades.
The abs have been winning so easily (in no small part to BB) that he’s not yet been called on to take the serious pressure kicks that win and lose games. It will be interesting to see where he is a year from now once other coaches and players have had a better look at him. Knowing what he can do being able to stop him is not the same thing of course. Eventually he will lose some of that speed and will need those other elements to have a long career and be a true great and rise above the likes of Spencer, Mehrts, Fox, Larkham, Botha, Potra, Wilco etc let alone DC.
Different eras obviously and (for example) Fox’s metronomic goal kicking and territorial game were enormous assets back then with attack and defensive from a first five not so important -while the running and distribution skills BB brings add a lot to the overall game plan right now .
I'd love to know BBs 40 metre and 100 metres times. As an almost gawky looking relatively slight white guy he just doesn't look anywhere near as fast as he actually is if that makes sense. Different position of course but Cullen lost his ability in a really short space of time when that pace went ( well "went" is a harsh way of putting it but fact is he lost that crucial acceleration which could see him attack so brilliantly or alternatively motor out of trouble )
-
Crockett will also be past 35, but Read will be about to be 34 and, more pertinent, BFA 33 -- old for a back.
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
Crockett will also be past 35, but Read will be about to be 34 and, more pertinent, BFA 33 -- old for a back.
BFA should be ok. His best skill is ability to beat a man one on one. Doesn't do it via pace or by a massive step, he's jsut an elusive runner. So I don't think age should affect his game too much.
-
Ben From Accounts
-
@MajorRage said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
Crockett will also be past 35, but Read will be about to be 34 and, more pertinent, BFA 33 -- old for a back.
BFA should be ok. His best skill is ability to beat a man one on one. Doesn't do it via pace or by a massive step, he's jsut an elusive runner. So I don't think age should affect his game too much.
Yup, I'd say his best skill is not just his ability to beat his man, but that he is one of the smartest footballers on the field. He has vision in spades and I cannot remember him taking the wrong option. Oozes class.
@Hooroo boring old Ben from Accounts.
-
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
Crockett will also be past 35, but Read will be about to be 34 and, more pertinent, BFA 33 -- old for a back.
BFA should be ok. His best skill is ability to beat a man one on one. Doesn't do it via pace or by a massive step, he's jsut an elusive runner. So I don't think age should affect his game too much.
@MajorRage said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
Crockett will also be past 35, but Read will be about to be 34 and, more pertinent, BFA 33 -- old for a back.
BFA should be ok. His best skill is ability to beat a man one on one. Doesn't do it via pace or by a massive step, he's jsut an elusive runner. So I don't think age should affect his game too much.
He sort of does it like Stephen Larkham back in the day, doesn't look like he should be able to but does it so often which is a rather handy skill to have. Poor old Dagg is definitely the "weakest" attacker in the back three, he's playing Goldie Wilson to Smith and Saveas Cully and Jonah......
-
BFA? Beaden Fast as? Barret For Ava?
Usually I work them out but this has be stumped and I understand it isn't BB as he is young.
Ben Fast As?
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
BFA? Beaden Fast as? Barret For Ava?
Usually I work them out but this has be stumped and I understand it isn't BB as he is young.
Ben Fast As?
haha Beauden fast as....that's what you should run with
-
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
Nope what? Nope he doesn't have the potential?
I never said he was better than Carter now and in my next post I said Carter was GOAT10 by a long way.Yeah sorry i read your other post after that. Yes he does have the potential and he’s the best 10 in the world. He has x factor in spades.
The abs have been winning so easily (in no small part to BB) that he’s not yet been called on to take the serious pressure kicks that win and lose games. It will be interesting to see where he is a year from now once other coaches and players have had a better look at him. Knowing what he can do being able to stop him is not the same thing of course. Eventually he will lose some of that speed and will need those other elements to have a long career and be a true great and rise above the likes of Spencer, Mehrts, Fox, Larkham, Botha, Potra, Wilco etc let alone DC.
Different eras obviously and (for example) Fox’s metronomic goal kicking and territorial game were enormous assets back then with attack and defensive from a first five not so important -while the running and distribution skills BB brings add a lot to the overall game plan right now .
I'd love to know BBs 40 metre and 100 metres times. As an almost gawky looking relatively slight white guy he just doesn't look anywhere near as fast as he actually is if that makes sense. Different position of course but Cullen lost his ability in a really short space of time when that pace went ( well "went" is a harsh way of putting it but fact is he lost that crucial acceleration which could see him attack so brilliantly or alternatively motor out of trouble )
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
Nope what? Nope he doesn't have the potential?
I never said he was better than Carter now and in my next post I said Carter was GOAT10 by a long way.Yeah sorry i read your other post after that. Yes he does have the potential and he’s the best 10 in the world. He has x factor in spades.
The abs have been winning so easily (in no small part to BB) that he’s not yet been called on to take the serious pressure kicks that win and lose games. It will be interesting to see where he is a year from now once other coaches and players have had a better look at him. Knowing what he can do being able to stop him is not the same thing of course. Eventually he will lose some of that speed and will need those other elements to have a long career and be a true great and rise above the likes of Spencer, Mehrts, Fox, Larkham, Botha, Potra, Wilco etc let alone DC.
Different eras obviously and (for example) Fox’s metronomic goal kicking and territorial game were enormous assets back then with attack and defensive from a first five not so important -while the running and distribution skills BB brings add a lot to the overall game plan right now .
I'd love to know BBs 40 metre and 100 metres times. As an almost gawky looking relatively slight white guy he just doesn't look anywhere near as fast as he actually is if that makes sense. Different position of course but Cullen lost his ability in a really short space of time when that pace went ( well "went" is a harsh way of putting it but fact is he lost that crucial acceleration which could see him attack so brilliantly or alternatively motor out of trouble )
Cully lost his pace after knee surgery. He was still a very classy footballer, and should have been kept in the AB setup longer then he was, but he lost that "X" factor. Knee surgery is a real bitch, I had reconstructive surgery when I was 16 and it halved my pace off the mark, robbing me of a long and illustrious career in black.
-
BFA? Beaden Fast as? Barret For Ava?
Usually I work them out but this has be stumped and I understand it isn't BB as he is young.
Ben Fast As?
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
BFA? Beaden Fast as? Barret For Ava?
Usually I work them out but this has be stumped and I understand it isn't BB as he is young.
Ben Fast As?
give yourself an uppercut fella! BFA should be a straight translation for a long-term-ferner such as yourself!
-
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@GM1 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Nope. Those early misses by Barrett might have been really costly in different circumstances. You sad potential, fair enough. Barrett's speed is unreal and vision with ball in hand fantastic (as was Carter in his pomp), Carter's defence, placekicking, passing and running game (in his prime) second to none. World points scoring record and clutch droppie in WC final. Carter is the greatest of all time.
Nope what? Nope he doesn't have the potential?
I never said he was better than Carter now and in my next post I said Carter was GOAT10 by a long way.Yeah sorry i read your other post after that. Yes he does have the potential and he’s the best 10 in the world. He has x factor in spades.
The abs have been winning so easily (in no small part to BB) that he’s not yet been called on to take the serious pressure kicks that win and lose games. It will be interesting to see where he is a year from now once other coaches and players have had a better look at him. Knowing what he can do being able to stop him is not the same thing of course. Eventually he will lose some of that speed and will need those other elements to have a long career and be a true great and rise above the likes of Spencer, Mehrts, Fox, Larkham, Botha, Potra, Wilco etc let alone DC.
Different eras obviously and (for example) Fox’s metronomic goal kicking and territorial game were enormous assets back then with attack and defensive from a first five not so important -while the running and distribution skills BB brings add a lot to the overall game plan right now .
I'd love to know BBs 40 metre and 100 metres times. As an almost gawky looking relatively slight white guy he just doesn't look anywhere near as fast as he actually is if that makes sense. Different position of course but Cullen lost his ability in a really short space of time when that pace went ( well "went" is a harsh way of putting it but fact is he lost that crucial acceleration which could see him attack so brilliantly or alternatively motor out of trouble )
Cully lost his pace after knee surgery. He was still a very classy footballer, and should have been kept in the AB setup longer then he was, but he lost that "X" factor. Knee surgery is a real bitch, I had reconstructive surgery when I was 16 and it halved my pace off the mark, robbing me of a long and illustrious career in black.
I can imagine although my pace is still electric even at 39. Fuck, I managed to type that with a semi straight face......
I agree, even at less pace Cully was still at least as good as Leon MacDonald who always struck me as a guy who had a pretty decent career on the back of being incredibly tough and brave and getting the absolute best out of comparatively modest natural talent. Cullys experience should have seen him in that 2003 WC squad.
-
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
BFA? Beaden Fast as? Barret For Ava?
Usually I work them out but this has be stumped and I understand it isn't BB as he is young.
Ben Fast As?
give yourself an uppercut fella! BFA should be a straight translation for a long-term-ferner such as yourself!
@MajorRage said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
BFA? Beaden Fast as? Barret For Ava?
Usually I work them out but this has be stumped and I understand it isn't BB as he is young.
Ben Fast As?
give yourself an uppercut fella! BFA should be a straight translation for a long-term-ferner such as yourself!
Yeah I deserve that. I'm more used to bender as a reference for him than BFA but then if listening to Hauraki, it is always Ben From Accounts.
Poor form and punch administered
-
I can imagine although my pace is still electric even at 39. Fuck, I managed to type that with a semi straight face......
I agree, even at less pace Cully was still at least as good as Leon MacDonald who always struck me as a guy who had a pretty decent career on the back of being incredibly tough and brave and getting the absolute best out of comparatively modest natural talent. Cullys experience should have seen him in that 2003 WC squad.
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
I can imagine although my pace is still electric even at 39. Fuck, I managed to type that with a semi straight face......
I agree, even at less pace Cully was still at least as good as Leon MacDonald who always struck me as a guy who had a pretty decent career on the back of being incredibly tough and brave and getting the absolute best out of comparatively modest natural talent. Cullys experience should have seen him in that 2003 WC squad.
IIRC, it wasn't so much he lost his pace (I'm talking still NZ here not overseas) but he lost the ability to maintain his pace after a change of direction. He went from being an early career Blanco style to late career less flair style.
At any rate he was still easily the best fullback in NZ in 2003 when he got Mitchellised. And Mitchell got really lucky when Mils turned out to be an awesome fullback.
-
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
BFA? Beaden Fast as? Barret For Ava?
Usually I work them out but this has be stumped and I understand it isn't BB as he is young.
Ben Fast As?
give yourself an uppercut fella! BFA should be a straight translation for a long-term-ferner such as yourself!
-
@MajorRage said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
BFA? Beaden Fast as? Barret For Ava?
Usually I work them out but this has be stumped and I understand it isn't BB as he is young.
Ben Fast As?
give yourself an uppercut fella! BFA should be a straight translation for a long-term-ferner such as yourself!
Yeah I deserve that. I'm more used to bender as a reference for him than BFA but then if listening to Hauraki, it is always Ben From Accounts.
Poor form and punch administered
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@MajorRage said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
BFA? Beaden Fast as? Barret For Ava?
Usually I work them out but this has be stumped and I understand it isn't BB as he is young.
Ben Fast As?
give yourself an uppercut fella! BFA should be a straight translation for a long-term-ferner such as yourself!
Yeah I deserve that. I'm more used to bender as a reference for him than BFA but then if listening to Hauraki, it is always Ben From Accounts.
Poor form and punch administered
Good old Hauraki with Leigh Hart and Jason Hoyt. Top comedy, @Nepia is a huge fan
-
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
I can imagine although my pace is still electric even at 39. Fuck, I managed to type that with a semi straight face......
I agree, even at less pace Cully was still at least as good as Leon MacDonald who always struck me as a guy who had a pretty decent career on the back of being incredibly tough and brave and getting the absolute best out of comparatively modest natural talent. Cullys experience should have seen him in that 2003 WC squad.
IIRC, it wasn't so much he lost his pace (I'm talking still NZ here not overseas) but he lost the ability to maintain his pace after a change of direction. He went from being an early career Blanco style to late career less flair style.
At any rate he was still easily the best fullback in NZ in 2003 when he got Mitchellised. And Mitchell got really lucky when Mils turned out to be an awesome fullback.
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Pumas I:
At any rate he was still easily the best fullback in NZ in 2003 when he got Mitchellised. And Mitchell got really lucky when Mils turned out to be an awesome fullback.
Not really lucky given Mils had played fullback for Auckland in the NPC as far back 2001 and shown he knew how to link with the likes of Vidiri. Sure in the 2003 Super season he played multiple positions and Howlett was used mainly at fullback. And fair enough, Howlett was an AB and they had wingers to burn in Rupeni, Rok and Gear. But fullback was not as foreign to Mils as some believed and the Orc back three was something special in 2003 for the ABs.
